Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (November-December 2018)

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Schrodinger’s cat says our Chicago recruiting isn’t dead if we don’t click on the link to that article.
Perhaps someone could do an inverse forrier transform to combine the frequencies of CPL visits to determine the time it will take to get a player to Champaign.
 
The head coach of the University of Illinois basketball should have at least spent one day in Chicago. Probably a lot more too, but seriously this is not a good look. Underwood deserves criticism for not having done so.
 
It amazing how some people on this forum know exactly what BU relationship is what his players, what his relationship is with other coaches, and what he does every waking moment of his days. Can you please tell me how much time you spend with him, that you really know exactly what is doing and who he is talking to. I wish I had that power because it would make picking lottery numbers a lot easier.
 

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No this is not a good look for Illinois. But it’s easily explained with the schedule, how early we are in the season. This story shouldn’t have been written it’s much to do about nothing. The Simeon thing is a different story. Something should have been done about that much earlier.
 
why are these coaches that barely send anyone down to illinois crying that illinois didnt watch a few games over 3 weeks? oh thats, right, because having the flagship uni checking out their guys LEGITIMIZES them to the programs that can swoop in and take them. All this "relationship" crap when we've been among the first major (often in the frosh/soph year) offers for how many guys only to have some better program get them after only wathcching or extending an offer in their last summer of AAU ball LOL

Kinda the same way many on our boards talk trash about our targets if their state school hasnt offered.

Lastly, LOL at ppl getting bent out of shape over a 3 week no show when the team has been in Maui, Lincoln, and south bend in the last 3-4 weeks. BU was ALL over the recruits we wanted during the eval period in the summer, and will be out during the dec/jan tourneys, so calm down smh
 
People are looking at it from the wrong perspective. This is not about whether O'Brien is right or wrong, or whether it is Pipper, or whether BU is right or wrong or these coaches making negative statements. It is not that this case will go to court and you get a cookie if you win.

In order to be successful at Illinois you need to build strong relationships with the powerful HS, AAU, and media at Illinois. Recruiting is a business of building relationships. That is what Self did, and did it in a hurry when those relationships were broken. If these powerful coaches are making negative statements it just proves so far we have failed to build those relationships and mend fences. Combine that with the fact that recruiting has not been going well, not only in Chicago area but even the rest of the state, and it is troublesome. That is the real problem.
 
Decatur, IL
Bottom line here there is a group of posters here that doesn't like that BU yells at his players to get his point across. So for that they are gonna drag him thru the mud from every angle they possibly can. Get used to it fellas. He could win 25 games with a team of 3 star players and the same few posters would still be dogging his recruiting. It's not gonna stop no matter how much he wins.
 
North Bethesda, Maryland
People are looking at it from the wrong perspective. This is not about whether O'Brien is right or wrong, or whether it is Pipper, or whether BU is right or wrong or these coaches making negative statements. It is not that this case will go to court and you get a cookie if you win.

In order to be successful at Illinois you need to build strong relationships with the powerful HS, AAU, and media at Illinois. Recruiting is a business of building relationships. That is what Self did, and did it in a hurry when those relationships were broken. If these powerful coaches are making negative statements it just proves so far we have failed to build those relationships and mend fences. Combine that with the fact that recruiting has not been going well, not only in Chicago area but even the rest of the state, and it is troublesome. That is the real problem.
I don't disagree, but I would add that these fences can be mended pretty quickly by just giving them the "love" they seek. Seems like a lot of these Chicago guys just like to see respect paid, and I'm not necessarily saying that in a pejorative sense.
 
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Bottom line here there is a group of posters here that doesn't like that BU yells at his players to get his point across. So for that they are gonna drag him thru the mud from every angle they possibly can. Get used to it fellas. He could win 25 games with a team of 3 star players and the same few posters would still be dogging his recruiting. It's not gonna stop no matter how much he wins.
I have to disagree with this. I think most who have been negative on recruiting would gladly sing stronger praises for BU, IF he were to win 25 games no matter who he does it with. As a matter of fact, BU would get MUCH more credibility as a great coach, with great systems and ability to develop/put lesser rated guys in positions to excel.

It’s not necessarily the star power of the recruits he’s missed on, but the inability SO FAR to recruit the positions he needs to make his systems work as they have in his previous tenures.

It all comes down to instant gratification over patience. Logically speaking, signing higher rated recruits at positions of need will get a program to 25 wins much quicker, and its being done by coaches who took over programs when, or after BU took over Illinois.

IMO, this board is divided into those with patience and belief that BU will get this program back to prominence over a long rebuild vs those who see the W/L records, and less than overwhelming recruiting who believe a school like Illinois has too much to offer for a rebuild to take 3-5 years.

I don’t think being in one camp or another justififies being villinated, but this board sure does a great job mimicking the Hatfields vs the McCoys.
 
Winged Warrior
Bill Self’s first class was Brett Melton and Jarrence Howard. His second class was Southern Idaho transfer Blandon Ferguson, Roger Powell, Luther Head, and Nick Smith. None of those recruits played major minutes as freshman. Luther tops that list at 16 mpg his first year. I’d hate to see what you would say about Self’s recruiting after those 2 years. In comparison, Underwood’s first two recruiting classes are far superior. Exactly 1 Chicag recruit for Self to that point, so where are the relationships Self made in Chicago and “in a hurry” by year 2? BU has a better pipeline established already. Self also had a much, much, much better product to sell.

Third class was Dee, Deron, James, Kyle Wilson, Aaron Spears. 2 of which transferred. We know about the other 3.

Self got exactly 4 Chicago area players to Illinois in 3 years. 1 Five star, 1 Four star, 2 Three stars.

BU’s second class at Illinois includes one 5 star, One 4 star, and several 3 stars (Giorgi is a stud and a great find). The recruiting is fine and on par to where it should be.

You can spin a narrative anyway you want. You can take one extremely biased one-sided article and sprint with it if you choose to. If you don’t like BU for whatever reason, just say you don’t like BU. Maybe it’s the coaching style, idk.

Furthermore, to this point in their Illini coaching careers, BU has outrecruited Self in Chicago if you count the fact that THT wanted to come to Illinois. Ayo 5* THT 4* - Head 4* Powell 3*....And has outrecruited nationally as well with a far inferior product to sell. Nick Smith, Ferguson, Kyle Wilson, Spears - Tevian Jones, Samba, Griffin, Giorgi, January, Higgs.

Let’s keep everything in perspective here.
It's so fun to watch facts nuke someone's tired diatribe of BU and our recruiting "mess".

I suspect it won't matter. You could almost smell the giddiness emanating from the posts after that click bait garbage from the Chicago Sun Rag.
 
But the issue is the $3,000,000 per year CEO of Illinois basketball is not controlling the narrative.
The Sun Times wants clicks and controversy. They're gonna publish whatever they gets stirs some emotion, which this clearly has. It shouldn't bother anyone, Brad Underwood isn't some moron that hasn't figured out that there might be good recruits in a metro area of 9 million people 3 hours away. I guarantee the plan wasn't "let's not go see any Chicago players this season and see how that goes."

Let's be a little patient to see how it all plays out, eh?
 
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Bottom line here there is a group of posters here that doesn't like that BU yells at his players to get his point across. So for that they are gonna drag him thru the mud from every angle they possibly can. Get used to it fellas. He could win 25 games with a team of 3 star players and the same few posters would still be dogging his recruiting. It's not gonna stop no matter how much he wins.
If BU actually won games you might have an argument here.
 
Decatur, IL
IMO, this board is divided into those with patience and belief that BU will get this program back to prominence over a long rebuild vs those who see the W/L records, and less than overwhelming recruiting who believe a school like Illinois has too much to offer for a rebuild to take 3-5 years.
I could agree with that except those same people that think it should be an instant turnaround also say that we have been irrelevant for over a decade. Constantly complain that we are behind the curve on facilities. They can see all that but cant see that it night take a few years to get back on track. If you ask me they are just looking for things to cry about because they dont like him personally. Spin it how you want but the post a few before this one that proves that Bill Self didn't "lock up Chicago QUICKLY". It's a narrative that is completely false. Let the coach coach.
 
Bill Self’s first class was Brett Melton and Jarrence Howard. His second class was Southern Idaho transfer Blandon Ferguson, Roger Powell, Luther Head, and Nick Smith.
I think you are thoroughly confused on timeline and recruiting classes. Jerrance Howard, Nick Smith, and Brett Melton all committed and signed LOIs with Lon Kruger. Jerrance Howard was actually in a totally different class as well. He committed as a junior with Brian Cook and Taylor Bell wrote his famous articles about both de-committing and planning to commit to DePaul. Jerrance was on the roster in Kruger's last season, but he was ineligible to play first semester because the NCAA flagged his SAT score as "too high" of an improvement. Nick Smith had committed and signed with Kruger before Self arrived with the agreement to redshirt at UI, which he did, so he only actually played 2 years for Self and 2 years for Weber. But he was part of Kruger's last class (which was not that good) along with Melton. Melton had committed and signed with Kruger, really wanted to come to Illinois independent of coach, but he had to transfer because of he was simply not that good to get PT. He always held grudges against Self, and openly became a critic one Self left, when strong anti-Self sentiment persisted after he went to KU. He even posted on Illini message boards against Self, and even came back and played on alumni games (!) during Weber. But Self was right, Melton was not that good to deserve playing time.
 
I have to disagree with this. I think most who have been negative on recruiting would gladly sing stronger praises for BU, IF he were to win 25 games no matter who he does it with. As a matter of fact, BU would get MUCH more credibility as a great coach, with great systems and ability to develop/put lesser rated guys in positions to excel.

It’s not necessarily the star power of the recruits he’s missed on, but the inability SO FAR to recruit the positions he needs to make his systems work as they have in his previous tenures.

It all comes down to instant gratification over patience. Logically speaking, signing higher rated recruits at positions of need will get a program to 25 wins much quicker, and its being done by coaches who took over programs when, or after BU took over Illinois.

IMO, this board is divided into those with patience and belief that BU will get this program back to prominence over a long rebuild vs those who see the W/L records, and less than overwhelming recruiting who believe a school like Illinois has too much to offer for a rebuild to take 3-5 years.

I don’t think being in one camp or another justififies being villinated, but this board sure does a great job mimicking the Hatfields vs the McCoys.
Very reasonable post. I personally have a few concerns so far.
1. Eye test. Haven't seen his system in place for more than a couple consecutive plays. The fouling has been frustrating, and the body language of players has at times been rough to watch. I'm ok with him inheriting a roster that doesn't fit, though, and accept the first season was rougher than expected. I also have to mention that the most recent game was different, and encouraging. Long way to go, but starting to look like a team gives me hope. Hallelujah! If that's a sign of things to come, I'm going to be quite happy rooting for these guys.
2. Recruiting. IMHO, you can't judge recruiting until you see what they can do --it all comes down to getting winners. Trent is AMAZING, and Ayo is getting there. There's no reason to disrespect anyone on the roster, and there are guys who could develop into high level players. The thing I look for though, is whether a coach is getting some of his plan A guys, some of his plan B guys, and only having to dip down on occasion to fall-back plans. We had a long, long list of elite guys we brought in the door. Some signs of life early, and I give them credit for that. Unfortunately, no luck closing on them. Unfortunately, you have to also mention the turnover. I get that a coaching change is a reason for turnover, and can accept a total rebuild. The disheartening part is guys like Spicy, Smith, Finke, et. al., who he had a chance to work with or recruit on his own. Not sure what's going to have to happen, but in college bball, you need some talent to compete at a national level.
3. Results. Schedule is a problem for a freshman team with this much turnover. I kinda like trial by fire, but I think it's been brutal. I'm actually impressed that morale is as good as it is. Young teams rarely travel well, so I'm not expecting the conference slate to be anything good on the road. And some of the teams in the conference are just way better than we are. That said, if we show up every night, we can still make this year meaningful. If we can be in most games, I'll hang in there as a fan.
 
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With the main difference that these "facts" are thoroughly wrong.

It seems that it is more fun for some to just post and comment against other posters (not on subject) even complimenting wrong information, but it is a privilege to have my own board stalkers.
Would you agree that Self stepped into a much better situation and team then what Underwood has?
 
The Transfer Portal
Bottom line here there is a group of posters here that doesn't like that BU yells at his players to get his point across. So for that they are gonna drag him thru the mud from every angle they possibly can. Get used to it fellas. He could win 25 games with a team of 3 star players and the same few posters would still be dogging his recruiting. It's not gonna stop no matter how much he wins.
The wrongest take. Congrats.
 
Winged Warrior
With the main difference that these "facts" are thoroughly wrong.

It seems that it is more fun for some to just post and comment against other posters (not on subject) even complimenting wrong information, but it is a privilege to have my own board stalkers.
He didn't say Bill Self originally recruited them, just that that was his first class. Also, it remains that if the player stays committed to the incoming coach, he's still in his recruiting class.
Yet you still hold BU accountable for our recruiting "mess" despite only being here one year and inheriting a complete dumpster fire of recruiting.
So none of the information in his post is "wrong", you just took it and spun it to fit your narrative.

It's also well known that BU has a relationship with Illinois high school coaches and programs going back 20 some odd years. Let's just ignore the behind the scene details that none of us really knows.

Also, how is it "stalking" when you respond to someones post? Isn't that what the board is for? I mean, I don't ignore you because you make good points often, but this tired mantra of BU's recruiting mess is nothing but your spin to create a recruiting drama pool that you can bathe in repeatedly.
 
Bottom line here there is a group of posters here that doesn't like that BU yells at his players to get his point across. So for that they are gonna drag him thru the mud from every angle they possibly can. Get used to it fellas. He could win 25 games with a team of 3 star players and the same few posters would still be dogging his recruiting. It's not gonna stop no matter how much he wins.
Sure, theres always going to be people who aren't happy with the current team makeup, or how the HC acts, or how recruiting is going, but winning cures all. Those people will be rightfully chastised if BU starts fielding legit contender teams, with legit talent.

Enlighten me the last time a team filled with 3 stars (who actually played meaningful minutes) won the ship. It's a chicken and egg comparison when talking about recruiting and winning, but the fact is to win at the highest level, you have to have the highest talent. UConn is probably you're best comparison (at least the Ollie win), but Boatwright and Nappier were at least 4 star guys, and I would assume they had a couple more highly touted recruits. There's a reaason teams like Duke and Kentucky win ships. Sure, cinderellas appear, but at a high major, getting to the E8/S16 once every 5 or 6 years isn't gonna cut it.

Admittedly, we need to walk before we run (perhaps crawl at this point). As the wins grow, so should the recruiting. I don't expect to pull top talent now, but it's going to have to happen, and it appears BU isn't a good enough recruiter to pull talent before winning, so that's gotta happen too.

At the end of the day, what Whitman has preached about our football program holds true for basketball. There needs to be clear, continuous growth. BU is going to have to take the wins route to that, rather than the recruiting.
 
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