IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
You realize you are posting on a message board that's sole purpose is to discuss these kids ad nauseam and are complaining about giving them attention when they ask for it...
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)
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Getting guys like Liddell and Tshiewbe have been and always will be tough. What is shocking is the lack of guys in the 50-150 rankings. Those are guys that we have consistently gotten as far back as I can remember. That was always the minimum, with the occasional top 50 guy mixed in.
I personally think we got lucky and backed into Tevian Jones. The staff deserves credit but if we strike out this fall again we’d be really lucky to get another Tev Jones.
I personally think we got lucky and backed into Tevian Jones. The staff deserves credit but if we strike out this fall again we’d be really lucky to get another Tev Jones.
Don't ask how I got there, but somehow I ended up reading an article on Syracuse basketball. It sounded oddly familiar. To wit:
Recruiting is rough. There’s no other way to slice it.
Coaches court a top-flight talent for years. Analysts peg your school as the front-runner. All signs point to a commitment.
Then, on decision day, the prospect puts on another program’s hat or t-shirt.
Your heart is broken.
We know this common tale all too well. It happens with unfortunate frequency, to the Syracuse basketball team.
The recruiting business is, indeed, fickle.
The author is talking about a recruit, Joseph Girard (3 star guard) and how he is expected to go to Syracuse. But the author talks about what the other schools have to offer so he is not betting on the commitment. For instance, one of the competitors is Michigan whose head coach John Beilein coached Girard’s father while at Le Moyne many years ago. So the author is fretting that somehow other schools are going to swoop in and take Girard away. If you want to read the whole article (and why would you) here:
https://insidetheloudhouse.com/2018/10/10/syracuse-basketball-juicy-shot-landing-girard/
Sound familiar? Just have to replace Syracuse with Illinois. And I am sure this is happening at most schools, maybe not right now but at some point. I mentioned in an earlier post a week or so ago that Duke did not have a commitment up to that point in time. They do have one now but supposedly Duke has never gone this long in the fall recruitment season without a commitment. Angst abounds!
Recruiting is rough. There’s no other way to slice it.
Coaches court a top-flight talent for years. Analysts peg your school as the front-runner. All signs point to a commitment.
Then, on decision day, the prospect puts on another program’s hat or t-shirt.
Your heart is broken.
We know this common tale all too well. It happens with unfortunate frequency, to the Syracuse basketball team.
The recruiting business is, indeed, fickle.
The author is talking about a recruit, Joseph Girard (3 star guard) and how he is expected to go to Syracuse. But the author talks about what the other schools have to offer so he is not betting on the commitment. For instance, one of the competitors is Michigan whose head coach John Beilein coached Girard’s father while at Le Moyne many years ago. So the author is fretting that somehow other schools are going to swoop in and take Girard away. If you want to read the whole article (and why would you) here:
https://insidetheloudhouse.com/2018/10/10/syracuse-basketball-juicy-shot-landing-girard/
Sound familiar? Just have to replace Syracuse with Illinois. And I am sure this is happening at most schools, maybe not right now but at some point. I mentioned in an earlier post a week or so ago that Duke did not have a commitment up to that point in time. They do have one now but supposedly Duke has never gone this long in the fall recruitment season without a commitment. Angst abounds!
Totally agree, and I definitely value the impact of recruiting more than the average fan/poster. It is not that I do not value the other aspects, on the contrary, just that I think very good recruiting is a necessary, yet not sufficient, condition for having consistent success at Illinois.
This is too much realism for this board. How dare you expose that we aren't the only team that doesn't close on quite a few good recruits. This logic doesn't fit the narrative here. /s just in case you guys couldn't tell.
IllFanInMi
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The divide on this board is growing and I feel many previously frequent visitors have lost interest due to the frustration of how certain aspects of recruiting has gone under BU.
Each of us has the right to feel however we feel and express our opinions. I for one am in the frustration camp, but continue to have hope that something good will happen, and if it does will sing the staffs praises.
Negativity can unfortunately equal reality and at the moment it’s reality. Other new coaches have signed top talent without winning first, so that narrative need not be an excuse doled out as much as it has here.
As we all know, Illinois has gone through some less than par years, but is rich in tradition and success. I for one believe our recruiting should be better under BU, BAR NONE!
Until this staff/BU prove it on the court and on the recruiting trail, I’m going to question the hire. We all believed he was a great hire and would turn this thing around pretty quickly. I’m still in BU’s court and feel things could turn sharply north this year, but until then I’m squinting.
Each of us has the right to feel however we feel and express our opinions. I for one am in the frustration camp, but continue to have hope that something good will happen, and if it does will sing the staffs praises.
Negativity can unfortunately equal reality and at the moment it’s reality. Other new coaches have signed top talent without winning first, so that narrative need not be an excuse doled out as much as it has here.
As we all know, Illinois has gone through some less than par years, but is rich in tradition and success. I for one believe our recruiting should be better under BU, BAR NONE!
Until this staff/BU prove it on the court and on the recruiting trail, I’m going to question the hire. We all believed he was a great hire and would turn this thing around pretty quickly. I’m still in BU’s court and feel things could turn sharply north this year, but until then I’m squinting.
I couldnt find the post but someone mentioned how we didn’t have as many top 50-150 front court targets and I think that’s the most concerning part. We’re either shooting for the stars with top 50 targets or we’re going after juco bigs and targets that most would consider plan D guys. This is a deep class when it comes to bigs so it’s disappointing that it doesn’t appear that we’re in the running for any of those 50-150 guys.
IllFanInMi
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Syracuse already has a 4* SG and a 3* big and the crystal balls favor them getting Girard. On top of that, leading the chase for 4* big Akok Akok, 50/50 on Kofi Cockburn, and 40/60 for Guerrirer. Apples to Oranges to Illinois, I’m not crying for them. And didn’t the Cuse just have NCAA issues??
It's very easy to replicate the failures of others. It is the successes that we are having a problem replicating.
I just have a gut feeling that you guys that pour on the negatives also DO NOT like our coach and the way he goes about business. I'm in the belief that you fellas also completely underscore the fact that he is a tough coach to play for. With that fact the roster turnover will be more than ideal until he establishes his culture. He had 1 season in which players that probably had a good idea they weren't going to return didn't completely buy in. With that we got the results we had. But a couple recruiting misses in before he even puts his 2nd year team on the court you guys are already pretty much writing him off and are having conversations about a change. My point is I feel it's more a personal dislike that brings out the negativity from a few. The same few complaining about the recruiting woes are the same few that say they would never play for a coach like Underwood. We get it, you dont like him. No matter how much you mumble otherwise it seems you guys are rooting for his failure. Those of us that do like the change and feel the team needed a kick in the rear are willing to give more time to this staff no matter the recruiting situation for now. I personally like the late signees we got. Tevian is comparable to DJ Stewart who I thought was crazy athletic. Its gonna take some time for these younger bigs to learn college ball but I think they can become serviceable players while we build depth. This year probably will be hard to watch in the paint on the glass and on D but we all know that already. Could get better with De La Rosa. That's pretty much my opinion on the state of the board now. I said I was gonna stay away from the thread but I'm addicted.
IllFanInMi
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I personally have no dislike for BU, don’t know the man and am not qualified to form an opinion one way or the other. Played for hard nosed coaches and had no problem with it. I am simply basing my feelings on results. I also have been on the record saying I really like this class and have hopes for improvement. Something is just “off” with recruiting and there are likely multiple factors, but as a head coach making millions of dollars , you get the burden of the buck stops here.
Success is bred from success, replicating has been difficult, because quite frankly we have not had enough to use as a base to grow from.
I agree that he should ultimately be at fault but my opinion is that it is a little early to consider his recruiting a complete failure. He kept Trent on board, has Ayo and a few other intriguing pieces in this class in my eyes. Mark Smith was not a good fit but he did seal his recruitment. The guys he scrambled to get: Matic, and Ibo were not recruits he had developed long relationships with before he was here. He needed bodies no matter what. Let the man and his staff settle in and build some relationships around here. My point is he will eventually start landing kids he has been recruiting for a few years instead of a few months and the team turnover will become less of a problem every year. Even the kids they are recruiting now they have only been on for a year or 2. Some of you want to apply round up before the staff can even get a good root system going on here. This is gonna be a process that may take a year or 2 longer than we all want. Just like the football program, let's give it time.
I have trust in BU being able to coach these guys up once we sign them. However, what should our strategy be? Should we be focusing on top 100+ recruits or should we continue focusing on the top 100/50 recruits this time of year? I would like to see us land something at this point. It appears as if BU is willing to keep focus on the top recruits now and wait until spring to readjust his strategy. Thoughts?
There have been a couple that have said "if things dont change fast change is needed" my post said nothing about you personally but you think everyone is talking about you. Take a break from the mirror palI think you must be living in a parallel universe somewhere.
It's not a matter of strategy, you are not going to beat opponents in recruiting with strategy. It is about the ability to close, that has been the problem. The staff has done a good job getting prospects to show interest and even make short lists. The difficulty has been closing. And while some highly ranked prospects have been in top 50 (e.g., Liddell, Oscar T) there have been a quite a few recruits in the top 50-150 range even last year that we still could not close. Our targeting and strategy have been fine, I do not think there is a problem with that.
Deleted member 649710
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Syracuse has a Hall of Fame coach, two Final Four appearances in recent years, a National Championship, and 8 or so alumni currently in the NBA.
What do we have to sell other than immediate playing time for a quality big?
Obelix said:
Talk about an alternate universe. Dbell's words were "if things dont change fast change is needed." Then you embellished that to " conversations about firing BU and making a change." Then you want him to quote THEM and argue with THEM, but you are the one responding so quickly on THEIR behalf.
Yet Dbell isn't wrong in recalling posts saying things need to happen fast. There are posts like that. Guess who made them?
Obelix said:
Obelix said:
sacraig
- The desert
I am honestly not sure that you've even said anything here, though. I mean that literally: you've basically just repeated exactly what the coaches have already done to get a recruit to have interest in the first place and onto campus. When you've already told them how they'd fit your system and just given the whole spiel in order to earn their OV, what more do you do when they arrive for their OV that really seals the deal?
There is a huge difference between attracting initial interest and making short lists and closing a deal. Huge! As in closing an important deal in a competitive environment or making a very competitive sale, the final list will not include one option but multiple ones, from probably a larger list. Making a short list and closing a deal are far away. A lot of the heavy lifting on making short lists is actually on the shoulders of the assistants and I believe we have two really good ones (Chin and Orlando) and one with a national reputation (Orlando). And in all fairness, I do not exclude Walker because he is not good, he may be good in his geographical area, I just personally do not know many coaches who know him so I have no opinion of him.
Most of the heavy lifting in closing the deal is with the head coach. Obviously, this is a results oriented business, we are not closing the deal. What exactly is BU doing wrong? I have no idea, I am not on recruiting visits. If it is something related to tactics, it can change and maybe our recruiting fortunes drastically improve soon (which is what I hope). If it is something related to personality (creating that comfort level of trust and closeness) that would be more difficult to change.
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pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
I put the depressing thing on ignore and poof , my depression went away....counting crows is a different depression that is DRIVING ME CRAZY.....
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People put way more emphasis on the measurables like playing time or distance from home.
Players need to want to play for the coach. It's a personal thing and pretty hard to quantify. And if there's a problem it's hard to identify. And hard to improve on although for some coaches a longer-term relationship may help.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Your post loses some steam when you suggest that there is personal dislike for the coach, and that no one should find any concern in his recruiting. Yes, it's early days, but , when you've been down for so long, you can't blame anyone for being somewhat impatient. I think everybody on this board wants BU to succeed, and still has hope given he is new to the program.
Aside from that, I find this one comment in your post is an interesting, and perhaps, valid point. It is hard to get players to play together and be focused when they feel they are not long for the team, and that may have been associated with results. We've all heard about locker room discontent, and perhaps this was part of the schism...those who bought in, and those who felt they were ready to move on.
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