Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (August 2018)

[IlliniDent]

Talent fits many, many systems. Players/athletes that "fit the style of play" is not descriptive at all, you can make a case for any recruit that he "fits our style of play." Especially when you recruit players like Parker Braun who is undersized but relatively quick (and fans make a case, before his decision, of how well he "fits our system") and then go out and recruit Adonis De La Rosa who is big but 300 pounds. Makes you wonder, who exactly does not fit our system? Certainly a very small group of players in a universe somewhere.


And then... they may all transfer next year.


Trent was not recruited by BU, neither was Black, or Kipper. And Dee, Deron, Luther, Augie, and Roger were not recruited by Weber. A clear indication that good, talented players fit may systems.


Top recruits really do not care about plan B, C, D, E, or F recruits anyway.


And then have no OV left... "all the best players available" is a HUGE group, vague, and not descriptive at all.


So we come back full circle, the ability to reel in 4 and 5 star players, and really "talent", who fits again many, many systems.

Agreed, the best players fit most any system or you adapt your system to utilize the best players. That being said, obviously coaches do have a system and tend to recruit to it especially when deciding between plan B and C recruits. Obviously you’d take all 5 star players regardless of system fit. But once we get farther down the list there are guys who work much better for what you are trying to do offensively or defensively, or at least fill niches you don’t have filled at that point.

 

[jmilt7]

With a good hair stylist Christian Braun has real Richard Keane potential.

Thought the exact same thing when I saw his picture

(And he might have a punchable face)

 

[Obelix]

That being said, obviously coaches do have a system and tend to recruit to it especially when deciding between plan B and C recruits.

That goes for pretty much every coach, though, not differentiating. As I said, it highly subjective as you can make a case that for any recruit that he "fits our style of play," especially with the examples shown, as well as the choices of recruits last year that did not show differentiation or special acumen of discovering that special recruit who "fits your system." Even in successful cases, it is mostly the ability to discover "talent" under the radar, and develop it, more than distinct "system fit." Yet, even in those cases, every few could do it, and doing it consistently is even harder.

I remember fans joking under Groce, "is there anyone who doesn't have an Illini offer" or "I opened the mail and got my basketball offer from Illinois." It is not about effort or offers, you will not out-recruit coaches with strategy, the bottom line is BU has to close with talent.

 

[sacraig]

Wait, did I read that right? The older Braun turned down a scholly from us to be a pref-walk-on at Mizzou?

That should be a pretty good indication of how much of a Plan E he was for us.

 

[sacraig]

With a good hair stylist Christian Braun has real Richard Keane potential.

As a Collinsville native, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Keene. I grew up watching him play.

 

[IlliniDent]

That goes for pretty much every coach, though, not differentiating. As I said, it highly subjective as you can make a case that for any recruit that he "fits our style of play," especially with the examples shown, as well as the choices of recruits last year that did not show differentiation or special acumen of discovering that special recruit who "fits your system." Even in successful cases, it is mostly the ability to discover "talent" under the radar, and develop it, more than distinct "system fit." Yet, even in those cases, every few could do it, and doing it consistently is even harder.

I remember fans joking under Groce, "is there anyone who doesn't have an Illini offer" or "I opened the mail and got my basketball offer from Illinois." It is not about effort or offers, you will not out-recruit coaches with strategy, the bottom line is BU has to close with talent.

Yea absolutely agree

 

[Obelix]

As a Collinsville native, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Keane. I grew up watching him play.

I watched in HS as well. I always thought Richard had a lot of overall skills, and people forget, but he was not a bad athlete. Keene would occasionally show his athleticism and fans would be surprised. What Keene failed to develop was intensity, energy, speed, and overall sense of urgency in his game.

 

[sacraig]

I watched in HS as well. I always thought Richard had a lot of overall skills, and people forget, but he was not a bad athlete. Keene would occasionally show his athleticism and fans would be surprised. What Keene failed to develop was intensity, energy, speed, and overall sense of urgency in his game.

Uh, oh, now you've opened the door. Run for cover!

 

[Calvin]

There has been some debate as to when the OVs begin again and how many. At least I think it was still being debated without a definite answer. Here is something from 247Sports Illini Inquirer article written by Derek Piper (part of his article about offering Braun which was cited here by Dan a few posts up).

"The Illini hope to get Whitney on campus for an official visit as well. Starting on Wednesday, they now have nine official visits to use during this recruiting calendar year, which runs from Aug. 1, 2018 to July 31, 2019."

He wrote the article Wednesday the 1st so I assume next Wednesday

Seems logical. I suppose that means you can't do an official before 8/1 or after 7/31 before the season starts.

Don't expect we'll get a crack at him after his weekend visit, but I hope so.

 

[IlliniinIowa]

A little too early to say either way, don'tcha think? I mean, the kid is coming off his FRESHMAN high school season.

You even understand which Braun we're taking about??

 

[NunnBetter]

You even understand which Braun we're taking about??

Pretty sure bert was commenting about Khristian Lander.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1025440821242462208

Let the countdown begin!

 

[OrangeNTude]

Agreed, the best players fit most any system or you adapt your system to utilize the best players. That being said, obviously coaches do have a system and tend to recruit to it especially when deciding between plan B and C recruits. Obviously you’d take all 5 star players regardless of system fit. But once we get farther down the list there are guys who work much better for what you are trying to do offensively or defensively, or at least fill niches you don’t have filled at that point.

Exactly. A coach may have to fill holes at the end, and he may not get his top targets. Hence, why they are called plan C, D, etc. Like you said the coaches do have a system that they are recruiting to and are trying to accomplish certain things offensively and defensively.

 

[Illini_1979]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1025440821242462208

Let the countdown begin!

Annnnnnd....he's committed!

 

[OrangeNTude]

Trent was not recruited by BU, neither was Black, or Kipper. And Dee, Deron, Luther, Augie, and Roger were not recruited by Weber. A clear indication that good, talented players fit may systems.

People can debate all they want whether Trent was recruited by BU or not. That wasn't the point. BU, like every other coach, has certain things he wants to recruit and will take those attributes on the team, whether recruited or inherited. And actually he did recruit Trent at SFA. BU has said himself that he recruits that kind of speed that Trent has to put pressure on and break down defenses. Also, Black and Kipper was not mentioned. You can assume and contrive all kinds of points from the original post that were not even mentioned, to your heart's content. If you want to make conclusions about how well Black or Kipper are recruits to BU's system, fine, but they simply weren't mentioned in the original post.

Top recruits really do not care about plan B, C, D, E, or F recruits anyway.


And then have no OV left... "all the best players available" is a HUGE group, vague, and not descriptive at all.


So we come back full circle, the ability to reel in 4 and 5 star players, and really "talent", who fits again many, many systems.

Ok great. Thanks for that, I guess.

 

[PlayAZ]

That should be a pretty good indication of how much of a Plan E he was for us.

Well if that is indicative of his IQ level, then I would say he probably would not have stayed eligible for long if he had chosen us?

 

[Illiniguy13]

A lot of focus has been on Khalil Whitney (deservedly so), but man, Terrence Shannon has quietly been outstanding. What an athlete

 

[Deleted member 643761]

BU's approach:

1) My system works. It doesn't matter if we get classes of five 3 star players, five 4 star players, or a mix of 3, 4, and 5 star players if they have the attributes my system needs (e.g. shooter = Alan Griffin, speedy defense breaker = Trent, length at almost all positions for defense, etc.). I am supremely confident in my system and if we just have enough of the pieces firing on all cylinders = win.

Whenever I read stuff like this I always wonder what people mean by "win". Like one game a year? above 50% above 50% in BT? 20 wins? 30 wins?

The problem with the "it doesn't matter" idea is that it doesn't matter only if you want to set your eyes on a modest goal. So Bruce Weber right now is probably getting a lot of guys who are fitting his system and he's "winning". Not a lot, and certainly at a pace that would have people running him out of this town.

"win" for me means getting back to the 80's or the time from 2000-2006. If we get a team full of 3 star players that fit BU's "system" we'll probably be a middle of the pack BT team with an occasional Sweet 16 and no FFs. That won't make me happy, so that's why for me it absolutely matters that we get top talent.

As to fitting the system, I'd be curious to hear what players in the top 50 in America right now don't fit our system.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

A lot of focus has been on Khalil Whitney (deservedly so), but man, Terrence Shannon has quietly been outstanding. What an athlete

What a great fit for BU's system too. Especially being paired with Whitney after he turns down UK...

 

[Obelix]

For a change, I would like to occasionally get the recruits who regularly fit UK's, Duke's, UNC's, and KU's systems.

 

[sacraig]

What a great fit for BU's system too. Especially being paired with Whitney after he turns down UK...

You forgot to color that text orange. I fixed it for you.

 

[Selfcon4]

"The Illini hope to get Whitney on campus for an official visit as well. Starting on Wednesday, they now have nine official visits to use during this recruiting calendar year, which runs from Aug. 1, 2018 to July 31, 2019."

So when do we get the other 15 OVs back then? Next Aug 1st (2019)?

 

[OrangeNTude]

Whenever I read stuff like this I always wonder what people mean by "win". Like one game a year? above 50% above 50% in BT? 20 wins? 30 wins?

The problem with the "it doesn't matter" idea is that it doesn't matter only if you want to set your eyes on a modest goal. So Bruce Weber right now is probably getting a lot of guys who are fitting his system and he's "winning". Not a lot, and certainly at a pace that would have people running him out of this town.

"win" for me means getting back to the 80's or the time from 2000-2006. If we get a team full of 3 star players that fit BU's "system" we'll probably be a middle of the pack BT team with an occasional Sweet 16 and no FFs. That won't make me happy, so that's why for me it absolutely matters that we get top talent.

As to fitting the system, I'd be curious to hear what players in the top 50 in America right now don't fit our system.

Agreed. My comment was vague, but depending on the definition of winning, the Weber level would have him being run out of town. As we are saying, once it gets into four and five stars, top 50 etc., the "system" discussion can become moot. What top recruit doesn't fit a system?

Still, it is interesting to look at BU's tenure at SFA and what he did with players both recruited and inherited. If you wade through his old SFA recruiting classes, it seems like he did not have near the level of talent that one would expect at Illinois.
http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2617/class/2014
Most people would probably not expect such recruiting to yield an acceptable level of "winning" at Illinois or any B1G school.

 

[Ol Dirty Gamer]

Made it to Lexington today, and i’ve heard more about the kid who decommitted than any kind of excitement for Whitney.
Must be nice.

 

[WizardBill]

Made it to Lexington today, and i’ve heard more about the kid who decommitted than any kind of excitement for Whitney.
Must be nice.

Hopefully, Whitney notices the fans from UI vs UK. OUR fans are real. Their fans are just bandwagoners who are there because they have won recently.






(Be sure your sarcasm meter was set to ON.)