Michigan State 76, Illinois 56 POSTGAME

Beginning of a long list of teams that will lose to MSU. Beat Purdue and everyone will be drinking orange Koolaid again.
 
Forgottonia
Beginning of a long list of teams that will lose to MSU. Beat Purdue and everyone will be drinking orange Koolaid again.
I know what you’re saying, but I think beating Purdue at home is an almost must win situation if we want to have any chance of dancing.
 
Some of you didn't like the term choke in a previous post of mine. But that's what happened from 3. You think these guys can't shoot. Go to a practice and watch and you'll see these guys making 3 after 3 in shooting drills or the like. Ayo, Fraz, Grif, DW, AF and Jones are who I'm talking about. And all those guys have good shooting form except for Ayo, who does have good rotation on his shot. So, the terms used today are pressing, tight, lack of confidence all which applied last night. When you shoot a basketball if you are even a little tight or pressing, because you have a seed of doubt your going to miss.
Agree with those who say ball movement was bad especially in the second half. Player movement, also. For those who want to see Underwood run a different offense he ain't gonna do it.
 
Kofi is fine, y'all. He balled against Teske. He struggles with defenders who have length and athleticism. Give it some time.

Ayo was great yesterday in the first half. And I have been highly critical of Ayo.

I love Trent, but his identity has been thrown in a ditch. Same with Giorgi.

Feliz and Damonte would be threats if they could shoot from deep. They cannot. I'm just stating the facts.

Griffin is an absolute dog, and if he keeps driving the ball, we have ourselves a player!!! That I am excited about.

Hope they figure it out, but unfortunately, I see this team winning about 17 games, and that's not going to cut it.
 
I think when folks opine that we don’t have good perimeter shooters, they’re talking about in-game situations. There are lots of Steph Currys playing horse in the drive-way or in practice. And I would be more likely to agree that it’s a choking problem if it (1) only happens to a specific player, or (2) only happens in select games. But the stats would seem to belie that.
 
Tennessee
I think that the problem is that they have to shoot faster in a game than they do any other time.

If they have any flaws in their shooting form, shooting fast makes it worse.
 
I'm not nearly as depressed about this game as I thought I would be given the final score. What I saw was us losing to a team that is:

  1. More skilled
  2. More experienced
  3. Better Coached/prepared
  4. At Home
We simply lost to a (much) better team. Even if we shot great and/or the refs weren't such homers (yes, we get home calls too) we were still losing that game. If we lose to Purdue at home I'm back on the fire-and-brimstone train, but this game was what it was. Not what we wanted, but not completely unexpected given all the factors. Beat Purdue and then win @Wisconsin for the first time since the Model-T was released and we at least have some hope for the season.

I like a LOT of what I'm hearing on this board about changing lineups and I've been of that same opinion for a while. Make a stud 2nd squad by putting Giorgi and Trent out there to eat up other teams' second stringers with DMW being the stopper for that group. Show AG some respect and let him start. If only we had someone on the team that could play an good (or even effective) 4...
 
I think when folks opine that we don’t have good perimeter shooters, they’re talking about in-game situations. There are lots of Steph Currys playing horse in the drive-way or in practice. And I would be more likely to agree that it’s a choking problem if it (1) only happens to a specific player, or (2) only happens in select games. But the stats would seem to belie that.
20
Are you kidding you think only one guy can press (choke) at a time on a team. They are shooting 20-100 against the top teams this year from 3! Did you see the game against A@t where DW calmly knocked down 2-3 three pointers against A@T, where the team shot around 42% from 3. Check out the Hampton and Lindewood games. Those are in game situations not shoot a rounds. Those are bad teams you say, exactly my point. Those shots against MSU were for the most part not pressured. One bad game shooting is not pressing (choking) 20-100 is.
To further prove my point Ayo, said after the game we shoot twice a day the bad shooting has nothing to do with not getting enough repetition. He went on to say we have to be tough enough to step up and make those shots! He is spot on! I'm not too hard on these guys i'm for them 100%. But the PC culture says don't use words like choke. Ayo, said the same thing only using a different vernacular to describe it.
 
I know what you’re saying, but I think beating Purdue at home is an almost must win situation if we want to have any chance of dancing.
can't wait. got tix for xmas. If ya see a crazy guy in "C" in an old orange krush shirt that is too small and an indian war bonnet on, that's me.(I just hope they let me wear my indian war bonnet. it'll be its first trip to assembly hall)
 
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While losing to MSU by 20 on their court was not good, the loss itself was not unexpected. For me, it was the Braggin' Rights game vs. Mizzou when this team showed how bad this season could turn out. To be that soft in that game against a mediocre opponent tells you much of what you need to know about this group. Absolutely looked like they didn't even want to be there.

I think the raw talent is there. I don't know if it's bad chemistry, bad coaching, or a combination of the two...but it's not working and I don't think it will ever work under BU. I will be surprised if the Illini do better than 14-17 this year. 5 more wins tops. An NIT invite at best. I hope I'm wrong, but even 16-15 won't get them into the tournament for the 7th year in a row. Underwood's 9-9 record in Big 12 games (albeit only one season) may well be his high water mark as a major-program coach. Basically, John Groce revisited. Again, I hope BU proves me wrong, but after 3 seasons I think Whitman made an expensively bad hire.
 
There is such a thing as a double-post motion offense. If you have two players fairly good at the 5 position but poor perimeter shooters, what have you got to lose ? Of course, under such an offense you can't expect perimeter players to drive the lane, but how efficient has that been ? Moreover, such an offense presents a pretty novel offense and match-up problem for opponents. Why not give it a few possessions and see what happens and how opponents react ?

Just a thought.
Given out shooting the double-post offense puts a heavy burden on KC and GB,
But if we continue to run an offense that marginalizes GB and TF, we are going to be in for some very rough "white water" in my opinion.
 
They’re both averaging about 25 minutes a game, so why can’t that be done with splitting the two of them up and only 5 minutes of overlap.
Unfortunately the math doesn’t check out. 25 minutes for each would require 10 minutes of overlap. Giorgi would play 15 at center and 10 at PF while Kofi would play 25 at center.

A better option is probably to play Giorgi and Kofi each 20 minutes at center and let Giorgi play another 5 minutes at PF. Then have Kipper and Jones step up minutes (14-18 each) to fill out the PF slot.
 
Winged Warrior
What 62707 is pretty spot on. We have shooters. They have absolutely shrunken at the tougher competition this year. It's beyond argument. They have choked.
They have collapsed for long stretches in every big game this year with the exception of maybe scUM. That is lack of toughness and will to win.

I think it's a direct result of a kinder, gentler Underwood after the incidents of a year ago.


They can't keep saying we are "everyday guys" and then only show up every other day. AG and Ayo were the two players totally unafraid of taking their shot @MSU.
 
The problems that stood out to me
1. mentally weak (except AG the kids got an attitude and i love it)
2. the basketball IQ is low on this team
3. the starting line-up is a joke GB on the perimeter 90% of the time along with DW out there that means the other team only has to guard 3 people
and thats exactly what MSU did.
 
Unfortunately the math doesn’t check out. 25 minutes for each would require 10 minutes of overlap. Giorgi would play 15 at center and 10 at PF while Kofi would play 25 at center.

A better option is probably to play Giorgi and Kofi each 20 minutes at center and let Giorgi play another 5 minutes at PF. Then have Kipper and Jones step up minutes (14-18 each) to fill out the PF slot.
Ahhh, thanks for the help with the math.
 
We have two guys shooting 18% and 8% from 3 point range...another shooting 28%, and 2 of them are starters. The first 2 shouldn't be shooting them.... it's a thrown away possession. Each individual should take the shots they can efficiently make. Underwood is probably the type of coach who wants his guys to be free and loose offensively...letting them shoot whenever they feel open. This team needs limits on the guys who are poor shooters. Give their shots to Frazier, Kofi and Griffin. Coach Henson was very good at defining each players respective offensive limits. JMO
 
The only thing worse than the Illini going 3 for 28 from 3 is having the other team you root for (in my case Oregon St.) go 3 for 21 from 3 in a game at approximately the same time.
 
Some of you didn't like the term choke in a previous post of mine. But that's what happened from 3. You think these guys can't shoot. Go to a practice and watch and you'll see these guys making 3 after 3 in shooting drills or the like. Ayo, Fraz, Grif, DW, AF and Jones are who I'm talking about. And all those guys have good shooting form except for Ayo, who does have good rotation on his shot. So, the terms used today are pressing, tight, lack of confidence all which applied last night. When you shoot a basketball if you are even a little tight or pressing, because you have a seed of doubt your going to miss.
Agree with those who say ball movement was bad especially in the second half. Player movement, also. For those who want to see Underwood run a different offense he ain't gonna do it.
So we need more swagger?
 
331 out of 353 in division 1 three point shooting. Need shooters. Miller, if he makes it, is one. Hopefully, the stretch four can shoot and the transfers. DaMontes shot doesn't look bad but he misses a couple and crawls into his shell. Don't know what Trents issue is.
Trents issue is that the offense doesn’t produce any open shots for him. He either has to force highly contested attempts or get lucky and find an open shot on a secondary break (which we rarely get).

You can’t run the weave out front with nobody moving/screening off the ball and expect shots to magically open up.

Could we use better shooters? Sure, who couldn’t? But we have guys who can shoot IF they get clean looks, which they haven’t been getting. So this is much more a a schematic/coaching issue than many are realizing.

Along those lines, I think people forget how many threes we got in transition the last couple of years, as the result of turnovers off the extended pressure. Underwood’s half court offense has never been good, but the transition covered a lot of those warts.
 
Trents issue is that the offense doesn’t produce any open shots for him. He either has to force highly contested attempts or get lucky and find an open shot on a secondary break (which we rarely get).

You can’t run the weave out front with nobody moving/screening off the ball and expect shots to magically open up.

Could we use better shooters? Sure, who couldn’t? But we have guys who can shoot IF they get clean looks, which they haven’t been getting. So this is much more a a schematic/coaching issue than many are realizing.

Along those lines, I think people forget how many threes we got in transition the last couple of years, as the result of turnovers off the extended pressure. Underwood’s half court offense has never been good, but the transition covered a lot of those warts.
his first few were open. He’s just not having a good year thus far. So many clean looks in the game but nothing falling.
 
Look up 2005 fighting Illini passing basketball on you tube and you will see the major problem with this year's team. They are very weak fundamentally