St Louis Cardinals 2020 season

For 13 seasons, ‘61-‘73, Gibson AVERAGED...

18 wins, 19 complete games, 259 innings, 216 Ks, a 2.70 ERA, and a 6.1 bWAR.

He essentially averaged a Cy Young-worthy, career year for anyone else performance every season for 13 years.
 
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Baja Ontario
And he pitched against Koufax, Marichal, Spahn, Maloney, Veale, Lonborg, McLain, and every other teams ace. I am fortunate to have the '68 teams Sports Illustrated cover, autographed, hanging on the wall. The baseball gods of my childhood.
 
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Cary, IL
Would you want the Cards to "overpay" for Yadi to stay and retire a Cardinal? He seems determined to play 2 more years.
 
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Would you want the Cards to "overpay" for Yadi to stay and retire a Cardinal? He seems determined to play 2 more years.
Can't say yet. If it's another team like we have this year where they float along with their nose just above the slime of mediocrity, why not? They won't be going anywhere in the playoffs so they may as well keep the face of the franchise in the clubhouse. On the other hand if they actually spend the money and re-stock the team with quality players to the point they don't have enough left over to "overpay" Yadi then I guess we will see him again when he retires and puts on the red jacket.
 
Gibby and Brock were my childhood heroes. It's been a difficult month losing both of them but I have known their health has been failing for a few years. I'm glad they are not suffering.

Back in the 60's I started to follow the Cardinals because of my dad but I stayed because of the great teams and men like Gibson. His fiery temperament amazed me. He wouldn't let his son win when they played checkers. He had to win at everything. He was on the Globetrotters but quit after one year because he wanted to win and they wanted to put on a show. When ever they passed the ball to him he went straight to the basket and shot.

He wrote (or had someone write for him) a book called "From Ghetto to Glory". It was in my grade school's library. I read it a couple of times. It taught me a lot.

He explained how he would sign an autograph for anyone who asked my not to be rude about it. If he's eating dinner wait until he was finished. People often times asked him how much money he made. When he wouldn't say many replied it was too much money. He spoke of living in the ghetto in Tulsa. I was amazed. I thought ghettos were only in large cities. He told of the time he was bitten by a rat. I could not imagine having rats in our home. I first learned of racism from the pages of his book. It was fascinating to me as I had never experienced it. He talked about going to Spring Training in Florida in the 50's and 60's and not being able to stay at the same hotel with the rest of the team or eat in the same restaurants. He resisted but did so with dignity. I guess that is one of the reasons I am troubled by the racial troubles of today. Men like Gibson and King accomplished more with little or no violence.

I have thought about his book a great deal over the years. About 10 years ago I was delighted to find it on the bookshelf at a local library and when I flipped through the pages I was stunned to discover it was a book written for children. I never noticed it when I first read it. What a great idea.

In Rick Hummel's Post Dispatch tribute. he wrote:

(In the 1964 World Series)


Because of Gibson I thought every teams best pitcher was supposed to pitch games 1,5 and 7. Well that was before the playoffs were expanded and you needed him to pitch in the earlier series too so things changed.

It wasn't until years later I learned some of the great stories about Bob.
There are hundreds of other stories.

I was sad that he stayed too long in the game. When I looked at other all time greats clinging to the game it reminded me of Gibson. They have such a fire it's hard for them to turn it off.
His career ERA was 2.91. His last full season as a starter was 1974. He was 38 and his ERA was 3.83. His WHIP 1.417. His career average was 1.188. Clearly he had lost it and yet he came back one more year. After a few starts they put him in the bullpen. That was a slap in his face from his perspective but his ERA 5.04 and WHIP 1.670. He retired mid season.

One more thing I remember was laying on the floor listening to the radio and he frequently would strike out all 3 batters on just 9 pitches. I thought that was typical. Ah the ignorance of youth.
P
Thanks for this, wpr. Great post.
 
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the Front Range
Would you want the Cards to "overpay" for Yadi to stay and retire a Cardinal? He seems determined to play 2 more years.
I think I’d overpay. He’s still got some pop in the bat and really does command a great game from behind the plate. I am really curious how this season would have gone if Covid hadn’t shaken everything up. We had so much young talent that needed time to gel. Having a mature veteran could pay dividends in helping that process along. I feel similarly with Waino.
 
Cary, IL
I think I’d overpay. He’s still got some pop in the bat and really does command a great game from behind the plate. I am really curious how this season would have gone if Covid hadn’t shaken everything up. We had so much young talent that needed time to gel. Having a mature veteran could pay dividends in helping that process along. I feel similarly with Waino.
I treat Waino completely differently. He pitches every 5 days, not every game. Is willing to pitch in the BP if necessary. And, is willing to do a smaller guarantee with performance bonuses.
 
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Lombard
How is our Randy Arozarena trade looking right now?
Hey, I wish we had Randy's production now, but you'll have a more definite answer after Libatore gets to the big squad.
 
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the Front Range
Hey, I wish we had Randy's production now, but you'll have a more definite answer after Libatore gets to the big squad.
I appreacite that, I almost forgot about him. I’m not sure Randy would have helped this years team but he certainly seems to be a talent. Libatore‘s future seems to be bright though.
 
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Champaign
Cardinals don’t pick up the option on Wong. All the money wasted on Fowler and Carpenter extension. Wonder what they do with Waino and Molina?
 
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the Front Range
Right now, I’m not expecting waino, Yadi or Wong to be on the club next year. They are trying to free up cash (which I don’t totally get, I thought we had cap space?). Mo said that he botched the Arrozarena trade and will do a better job of evaluating players within the club. He also said that he would like Knizner to have an expended role. My guess is deWitt told him shore up the team of its talent and cut expenses. Sad day.
 
Right now, I’m not expecting waino, Yadi or Wong to be on the club next year. They are trying to free up cash (which I don’t totally get, I thought we had cap space?). Mo said that he botched the Arrozarena trade and will do a better job of evaluating players within the club. He also said that he would like Knizner to have an expended role. My guess is deWitt told him shore up the team of its talent and cut expenses. Sad day.
The Dodgers, Yankees and at times Cubs, Phillies and BoSox have proven there isn't a true cap if teams are willing to pay the luxury tax. DeWitt has shown time and time again he is not willing.
 
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As much as I love Waino and Yadi, I get those decisions. I don't understand Wong though. He provides good value at his $12.5 mil option (just a reminder Wong was #2 on the team in WAR this year and #3 in 2019). I guarantee they're going to spend a fraction of the money saved on some journeyman utility infielder who provides 0.8 WAR over the course of the season, start Edman, and our defense is going to take a huge hit. We'll probably be #4 in the division in payroll and the standings may finally catch up to that fact. I hope I'm wrong and that the front office is angling for a long term deal, but I don’t think allowing him to hit the open market and negotiate with other teams helps do that. I'd think they'd lock him down for next year and keep talking if that's what they wanted.

DeWitt's goal appears to be to spend as little as possible and field a team that competes for a wildcard playoff spot. This keeps fans coming down the stretch, and profits flowing. Unfortunately since the MLB is likely keeping the expanded playoff format he can achieve this with a cheaper (and worse) on the field product so that is what we will see.
 
the Front Range
My guess is 2021 is more of an austerity year from a financial standpoint. Any thought you had of the team getting Lindor, or for sure, Arenado, are probably gone.

I think I read somewhere last weekend that the cubs laid off 100 front end staffers due to overall budget cuts. I haven't seen the cardinals announce cuts like that but I wouldn't be surprised they are running on a slimmer budget.
 
Tennessee
And he pitched against Koufax, Marichal, Spahn, Maloney, Veale, Lonborg, McLain, and every other teams ace. I am fortunate to have the '68 teams Sports Illustrated cover, autographed, hanging on the wall. The baseball gods of my childhood.
Also Drysdale, Seaver, Jenkins, Perry, and Koosman.
 
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Right now, I’m not expecting waino, Yadi or Wong to be on the club next year. They are trying to free up cash (which I don’t totally get, I thought we had cap space?). Mo said that he botched the Arrozarena trade and will do a better job of evaluating players within the club. He also said that he would like Knizner to have an expended role. My guess is deWitt told him shore up the team of its talent and cut expenses. Sad day.
Cardinals will do all they can to bring back Waino and Yadi. I think Yadi is trying to gain some leverage but I doubt others will value him high enough to suit him. Yadi overestimates his value. Cardinals need to let it play out. Waino was our best pitcher in ‘20. I doubt he would have been so good in a full season. Again the Cards need to let this play out.

I don’t see us competing next year. Covid drives payroll down. Carpenter contract really stings. Waino and Yadi could and probably will eat up more.
 
After missing on Luke Voit and Randy Arozarena, the Cardinals should be digging in hard how they evaluate players. I think Girsch is just mini Mo. Billy Owens from the A’s was just mentioned on Hot Stove as a super evaluator for one of the Open GM positions.

It struck me as they described him as to how the Cardinals just keep doubling down on their front office and staff. Loyalty is great unless it results in paralysis. Hard to imagine something shouldn’t have changed. Many thought it would be the hitting coach. I’m thinking Girsch should have been gone for a guy that would compliment Mo instead of duplicating him.
 
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After missing on Luke Voit and Randy Arozarena, the Cardinals should be digging in hard how they evaluate players.
While I'd agree they missed on Arozarena, Voit is a different story. He was gonna be stuck behind Goldie at 1B for the foreseeable future and was going to be best served getting a fresh start someplace else.
 
I believe Voit was traded during the 2018 season and Goldy was acquired in the offseason leading up to 2019.