Looks like the Chicago media is already rubbing off on Maddon. He's a giant douche nozzle
St. Louis Cardinals 2015 Season
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Looks like the Chicago media is already rubbing off on Maddon. He's a giant douche nozzle
IlliniWN5
I
Guest
Exactly what I thought. (I believe Holliday would have been done today even if he got walked/base hit though.) Maddon really is not in a place to be calling out the Cardinals after shutting Kang down for 6-8 months yesterday and for hitting an All-Star in the head today. Obviously, I'm a Cardinals homer, and it's good being in first place. We'll see them tomorrow afternoon!
classof2016
C
Guest
Seriously? Re-read your comments and maybe you'll realize why the Cardinals get on everyone's nerves. The Cardinals have a great organization, but they did not invent baseball. Like Maddon said, they didn't author the book of unwritten rules. Throwing at Rizzo was bush league, plain and simple. Maddon manages circles around Matheny.
Obviously I'm a Cubs homer, but the Kang incident was not intentional. Coghlan reached out to Kang and the Pirates organization recognized the fluke nature of the situation.
I didn't see the Holliday HBP today, so I won't comment on that.
But if anything, the Cubs being competitive has brought the fire back to this wonderful rivalry.
Couple notes here. First let me preface this by saying that I play college baseball so I am fully aware of the unwritten rules and what players generally accept as an acceptable retaliation.
The Kang play was not dirty. Coghlan was going in hard trying to break up the double play. Good hard clean baseball. Just an unfortunate even.
Rizzo leaned into the first HBP. No harm there, just sucks when you are pitching.
Haren did not look like he intentionally threw at Holliday, much less aim for his head. The only thing is, when its a fastball around the head, most teams will respond with hitting the best player. Doing it in that game is the best way to handle it, especially a blow out.
Yes, the Cardinals did intentionally throw at Rizzo, but they did it professionally. The hit him in the rear and did not locate it in any place that could lead to an injury. It might not have been the best decision but it was one that they felt needed to be done. Did it professionally, time to move on.
As far as Rizzo swiping the bag, I don't see a problem with it. It is the Cardinals job to throw him out and not allow steals to happen. It was also a 5 run game so it wasn't like the game was completely out of reach. Stealing up 5, don't see a problem. Now if you are up by 9-10 runs, you best believe a hitter is getting 90+ in the ribs.
Just my 2 cents on the situations. Hope it helped.
The Kang play was not dirty. Coghlan was going in hard trying to break up the double play. Good hard clean baseball. Just an unfortunate even.
Rizzo leaned into the first HBP. No harm there, just sucks when you are pitching.
Haren did not look like he intentionally threw at Holliday, much less aim for his head. The only thing is, when its a fastball around the head, most teams will respond with hitting the best player. Doing it in that game is the best way to handle it, especially a blow out.
Yes, the Cardinals did intentionally throw at Rizzo, but they did it professionally. The hit him in the rear and did not locate it in any place that could lead to an injury. It might not have been the best decision but it was one that they felt needed to be done. Did it professionally, time to move on.
As far as Rizzo swiping the bag, I don't see a problem with it. It is the Cardinals job to throw him out and not allow steals to happen. It was also a 5 run game so it wasn't like the game was completely out of reach. Stealing up 5, don't see a problem. Now if you are up by 9-10 runs, you best believe a hitter is getting 90+ in the ribs.
Just my 2 cents on the situations. Hope it helped.
IlliniWN5
I
Guest
Love the input, MattD. To me it really didn't seem like a issue until the post-game presser. I get where Maddon is coming from, he has a young team who's made so many strides this season and he's trying to get them up for a big series vs the Cardinals as the Pirates just dropped their 4th straight. He's just opening himself to a lot of criticism/chippy baseball this weekend.
Throwing at Rizzo may have been bush league. But it has nothing to do with the "Cardinal way" like he media makes it out to be. It's baseball and most teams would do the same if their best player who is just coming of the DL got hit in the head. All this is just drama the media cooks up. Rizzo is fine, Holliday is luckily fine and the game goes on.
Maybe you should re-read my comments. I didn't say anything about inventing baseball or writing a book. You sound just like the pirates fans of the past couple years, and the brewers, reds, and Astros before them in the past decade. If you can't handle your teams success without turning into a confrontational crybaby then maybe you should take up another hobby.
Rizzo didnt even get hit! He gets his pants grazed after Holliday gets drilled in the head, and Maddon is the one who's upset? GMAFB. Like I said, all he's doing is looking to make a headline. This isn't Tampa anymore. He's got a lot more attention now and he's trying to play to the Chicago media. Just play baseball. There are other ways to fire your team up. Do it in the clubhouse.
For the record, Matheny does NOT have pitchers retaliate. He never has. That doesn't mean belisle didn't do it on his own. He may very well have been trying to stand up for his teammate. He just came off the dl as well, and hasn't had much of a chance to pitch this season, so he may have been trying to garner some respect in the clubhouse to make up for lost time. Either way, it wasn't Matheny's orders.
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the national
- the Front Range
I 100% agree with you. On every point. As a Cardinal fan for the last 20+ seasons, I don't think we call out other teams like Maddon did. We will occasionally go after the umpires but Maddon calling out the Cardinals just sounds like sour grapes. Just play the game and let the score do the talking. Plus, the way the Cubs are playing right now, I think his comments take away from guys like Castro who had a monster game. Maddon's comments distract from his own players success on the field.
classof2016
C
Guest
I can understand throwing at guys to defend your teammates. I'll even occasionally be on board with it if it's warranted. But when Dan freaking Haren and his 83 mph fastball hits Matt Holliday in the head, it's clearly unintentional. Why does there need to be retaliation? It's silly.
The Cardinals have been playing scared against the Cubs since mid-July. Temper tantrums, getting ejected on calls that aren't even wrong or borderline (Matheny, Molina, Lynn) and generally just looking tight and un-Cardinal-like down the stretch. I respect the hell out of the Cardinals organization, and I've grown up watching them like I have the Cubs. But throwing at Rizzo is just another sign to me that they're uncomfortable.
classof2016
C
Guest
Selective memory. Don't you remember the Adam Wainwright "Mickey Mouse" comments about the Dodgers?
One other thing to take issue with on your post...
I'm not the world's biggest Matheny supporter, in fact, some of my closest beer drinking buddies would probably tell you that I give them the impression that I hate him, but here is a list of the major injuries he's had to deal with this season:
DL Time:
Adam Wainwright
Lance Lynn
Jaime Garcia
Marco Gonzalez
Jordan Walden
Matt Belisle
Mitch Harris
Matt Adams
Matt Holliday
Jon Jay
Randall Grichuk
There are probably a few others I can't think of off the top of my head, and in addition to that,
Jayson Heyward
Kolton Wong
Matt Carpenter
Have all had to take time (like 4 or 5 game stretches) off for minor injuries that didn't quite require DL time.
On that list is 7/9th of our opening day lineup, our number 2 starter, our 7th and 8th inning setup men, and a RoY candidate. All of that on a first place team, with the best record in basebl.
How many major injuries has Joe Maddon had to deal with on his 3rd place team?
I'll hang up and wait for your answer.
That was in response to comments and actions made by the dodgers, and it was hillarious because Adrian gonzales, who was one of the main perpetrators, was previously wearing a mikey mouse tshirt.
Again, if you don't know how to handle yourself when your team tastes some success, then go find another hobby.
That is one fan speaking on an anonymous internet forum. All I'd ask is to not lump all us Cubs fans into the category of not being about to "handle" ourselves when our favorite team finds success.
I'm enjoying this Cubs ride as much as I have in a long, long time. Yesterday was unfortunate no doubt, but from what I've seen there has been a lot of mutual understanding between Cubs/Cardinals fans.
It's definitely making the rivalry fun again!
Ryllini
- Lombard
Anyone who thinks that if it was reversed and a Cubs player was nailed in the head and you think they don't hit someone is nuts. That goes for any team in the league. It is just the way it is.
Agree 100%
For the most part I have found true cubs fans to be some of the more knowledgeable fans in all of baseball. Every fanbase has the dumb ones, I see them all the time in St louis too.
I'm just happy for the potential for a real rivalry again, that will last more than a season or two. The Cubs appear to be set up for some long term success finally.
Ian, you are a fan that understands baseball, and are one of the cub fans who I'd drink with. You're good; anyways, on some Cubs forums a lot of fans are just as jaded as class2016. This winning as a whole takes time to get use to.
FYI, Cubs being good is good for baseball, but with them being good brings out bandwagon fans. Then it also brings out the cockiness in a lot of the fans, too. Act like you've been there.
Like illini8507 said, each fan base has the fans that can't act like they've been there. The Cardinals have them too. So do the Royals, Brewers, Astros, Twins, and every team in every league since the beginning of professional sports. It's the balance of human nature. What I've learned to do is just ignore it and move on.
BillyBob1
- Champaign
Grichuk twice!
And yet, he's somehow not in the conversation for manager of the year. Bizarre to say the least.
Here's my prediction for the game
The very first inside pitch to rizzo is going to look like a bean ball, because as usual he will be standing on top of the plate and it will nearly hit him. Maddon will be on the steps chirping, all the idiot cubs fans will be booing, and the idiot cardinals fans will be cheering because the casual fan is too stupid to know it was just an inside pitch. Both benches will be warned, and nobody will be able to pitch inside the rest of the game for fear of ejection. At that point both pitch g staffs better be hoping the wind is blowing in or it will be a long day for the bullpens, which is exactly what the cubs dont want, because their bullpen hasn't been that good, and they are scheduled to have a bullpen start tomorrow.
And that is why maddons comments were idiotic.
The very first inside pitch to rizzo is going to look like a bean ball, because as usual he will be standing on top of the plate and it will nearly hit him. Maddon will be on the steps chirping, all the idiot cubs fans will be booing, and the idiot cardinals fans will be cheering because the casual fan is too stupid to know it was just an inside pitch. Both benches will be warned, and nobody will be able to pitch inside the rest of the game for fear of ejection. At that point both pitch g staffs better be hoping the wind is blowing in or it will be a long day for the bullpens, which is exactly what the cubs dont want, because their bullpen hasn't been that good, and they are scheduled to have a bullpen start tomorrow.
And that is why maddons comments were idiotic.
how in the hell is pitch 4 a ball? That's changes what pitch 5 would be. I know wood got that same call. Get it right, bluedgcrow
- Kelso, WA
I'm no big Matheny fan, but I thought his response to Maddon's rant was perfect. Classy, and made Maddon's comments look a little childish.
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