English Premier League Thread 2015-2016

[jrichisamazing]

What do you guys think about this play?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/this-is-why-soccer-players-dive

I was watching live and when it happened I was yelling at Remy because he didn't go down, not at the referee. I thought since he jumped over Butland, that meant no penalty. But the NBCSN crew was told by some refereeing association (can't remember the name), that it should be a penalty and red card regardless because it's not about how much contact is made, the simple act of sliding and missing the ball is worthy of punishment. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knew of that rule. I was watching with a couple friends and they also thought it wasn't a penalty. Even the Chelsea players weren't appealing for a penalty (although I'm sure Mou would have if he was there).

 

[wettsten]

What do you guys think about this play?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/this-is-why-soccer-players-dive

I was watching live and when it happened I was yelling at Remy because he didn't go down, not at the referee. I thought since he jumped over Butland, that meant no penalty. But the NBCSN crew was told by some refereeing association (can't remember the name), that it should be a penalty and red card regardless because it's not about how much contact is made, the simple act of sliding and missing the ball is worthy of punishment. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knew of that rule. I was watching with a couple friends and they also thought it wasn't a penalty. Even the Chelsea players weren't appealing for a penalty (although I'm sure Mou would have if he was there).

disagree with the bold part. a red card is given when the contact prevents an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and there are no more defenders between the player and the goal.

it looks like minimal contact was made but not enough to warrant a penalty IMO. i don't think the goal-scoring opportunity was stopped by butland but by that shoddy turf that stoke city calls a pitch. many clubs have complained about their poor pitch conditions.

he looks like he might have been offside too but the flag didn't go up so maybe not.

 

[wettsten]

Shaping up to be a great weekend with the Illini win, Chelsea loss, and hopefully and win for Palace tomorrow. I'm looking forward to what should be an entertaining NLD as well.

not sure if palace fan or everton fan.

 

[IlliniDent]

What do you guys think about this play?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/this-is-why-soccer-players-dive

I was watching live and when it happened I was yelling at Remy because he didn't go down, not at the referee. I thought since he jumped over Butland, that meant no penalty. But the NBCSN crew was told by some refereeing association (can't remember the name), that it should be a penalty and red card regardless because it's not about how much contact is made, the simple act of sliding and missing the ball is worthy of punishment. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knew of that rule. I was watching with a couple friends and they also thought it wasn't a penalty. Even the Chelsea players weren't appealing for a penalty (although I'm sure Mou would have if he was there).

Absolutely no penalty. No contact was made and therefore no penalty. If contact was made then yes would have been but Remy avoided contact.Yes you can yell at Remy but for not going down but often going on can lead to a goal but in this case it did not for him. It sucks in his case but definitely the right call and the right move by him to try to finish the play.

 

[TheFlyingIllini1317]

not sure if palace fan or everton fan.

Palace, I do like Everton as a club and Roberto Martinez.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Spurs looking good. Arsenal's CBs, not so much.

City stumbles, to Aston Villa no less.

Put me down as a big Roberto Martinez fan.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Strong 2nd half from the Gunners. Giroud could've won it. How bout Ozil's pass to Gibbs? Sublime. He's definitely taken the mantle as the top playmaker in the PL from Hazard (and Silva).

That said, another strong showing from the Spurs. Pochettino has done a wonderful job with them. They are young and good. Their Belgian CBs are a major upgrade.

 

[jrichisamazing]

Absolutely no penalty. No contact was made and therefore no penalty. If contact was made then yes would have been but Remy avoided contact.Yes you can yell at Remy but for not going down but often going on can lead to a goal but in this case it did not for him. It sucks in his case but definitely the right call and the right move by him to try to finish the play.

Did you read my post? It is a penalty. NBCSN and the referees association they partner with said so. If Butland doesn't slide, Remy doesn't have to jump and scores easily. Unfortunately, this rule is rarely enforced and it's the reason most players choose to dive, or drag their feet to create contact.

 

[IlliniDent]

Did you read my post? It is a penalty. NBCSN and the referees association they partner with said so. If Butland doesn't slide, Remy doesn't have to jump and scores easily. Unfortunately, this rule is rarely enforced and it's the reason most players choose to dive, or drag their feet to create contact.

Ok first of all that was written by me late last night and I was not at an ideal point to discuss this so I apologize. I have since looked more at it and will see if I can give a better response than the poor one I gave last night.
Anyway,
If you are making the argument that Remy was impeded: As a result of the law of impeding a player, wouldn't it result in an indirect free kick an not a direct free kick and therefore not a penalty? Also the definition of impeding a player is determined when the ball is not within playing distance of either player. Here it initially was within playing distance of both but I am unsure of exactly how this would be determined once the ball continues to move and Butland is on the ground unable to adjust his position.

If you are making the argument that the player is attempting to trip Remy, but then you have to go into intent and here the intent wasn't to trip but to get the ball. So being that he did not actually trip Remy, now you are looking at intent which can be very difficult to judge. I obviously do not work for the FIFA/FA rules committee and I agree that a way to get rid of diving would be to enforce this but I think it is a judgement in this scenario and anytime that happens it can be very difficult to give a penalty and red card here.
If it were given I would be ok with it but I am also ok with it not being given because the player chose to play on and take a chance at scoring. Now you are looking at playing advantage and whether or not you feel that still attempting to score would complete the advantage or if after shooting you would call it back and then give him a chance at a penalty. If Remy falls and does not get a shot off (granted it was a poor attempt) there is a bigger argument for no advantage and stopping play. He did basically fall here and play could've been called at that point but what if he scores on that shot, then it would be a complaint that why wasn't advantage played. Often once a player shoots, advantage is considered over but here this is a difficult decision.

In my opinion this is why many people are discussing it and there are several different takes on this. It could've been called, or it could've been called an indirect, or it could have not been called. This is why contact is such a huge differentiating factor. It removes intent because the player would have have been tripped, there would be no impeding play, there would be no intent and it would be an obvious penalty.

 

[KBLEE]

This picture from yesterday is hilarious:

 

[wettsten]

Ok first of all that was written by me late last night and I was not at an ideal point to discuss this so I apologize. I have since looked more at it and will see if I can give a better response than the poor one I gave last night.
Anyway,
If you are making the argument that Remy was impeded: As a result of the law of impeding a player, wouldn't it result in an indirect free kick an not a direct free kick and therefore not a penalty? Also the definition of impeding a player is determined when the ball is not within playing distance of either player. Here it initially was within playing distance of both but I am unsure of exactly how this would be determined once the ball continues to move and Butland is on the ground unable to adjust his position.

If you are making the argument that the player is attempting to trip Remy, but then you have to go into intent and here the intent wasn't to trip but to get the ball. So being that he did not actually trip Remy, now you are looking at intent which can be very difficult to judge. I obviously do not work for the FIFA/FA rules committee and I agree that a way to get rid of diving would be to enforce this but I think it is a judgement in this scenario and anytime that happens it can be very difficult to give a penalty and red card here.
If it were given I would be ok with it but I am also ok with it not being given because the player chose to play on and take a chance at scoring. Now you are looking at playing advantage and whether or not you feel that still attempting to score would complete the advantage or if after shooting you would call it back and then give him a chance at a penalty. If Remy falls and does not get a shot off (granted it was a poor attempt) there is a bigger argument for no advantage and stopping play. He did basically fall here and play could've been called at that point but what if he scores on that shot, then it would be a complaint that why wasn't advantage played. Often once a player shoots, advantage is considered over but here this is a difficult decision.

In my opinion this is why many people are discussing it and there are several different takes on this. It could've been called, or it could've been called an indirect, or it could have not been called. This is why contact is such a huge differentiating factor. It removes intent because the player would have have been tripped, there would be no impeding play, there would be no intent and it would be an obvious penalty.

the FA's rules:
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules...ball-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force

the bolded part indicates that it's clearly the referee's discretion (assuming he even saw enough of the incident to make a valid decision).

i think it's a 50/50 decision. sometimes it gets called and sometimes it does not.

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

This weekend's Premier League schedule (all times Central):

Saturday
6:45 AM, NBCSN: Watford vs. Manchester United
9:00 AM, NBCSN: Chelsea vs. Norwich
9:00 AM, USA: West Brom vs. Arsenal
11:30 AM, NBC: Manchester City vs. Liverpool

Sunday
10:00 AM, NBCSN: Spurs vs. West Ham

Monday
2:00 PM, NBCSN: Crystal Palace vs. Sunderland

 

[wettsten]

wooph. that was a game for clattenburg to forget or to forget clattenburg. correctly orders the retake and then changes his mind. gave advantage to arsenal on clear fouls but there was no advantage to be played..twice in 30 seconds; would much rather have had the free kicks.

 

[Joel Goodson]

wooph. that was a game for clattenburg to forget or to forget clattenburg. correctly orders the retake and then changes his mind. gave advantage to arsenal on clear fouls but there was no advantage to be played..twice in 30 seconds; would much rather have had the free kicks.

Tough game for Arteta too. Arenal's D had lapses, attack was lethargic. Cazorla's PK slip was an "it figures" moment. Air let out of the Gunners balloon today.

 

[unimaroon]

A good day for Liverpool helps to mitigate the disappointment of the other football game I was also watching. They have become a lot more enjoyable to follow of late.

 

[wettsten]

Tough game for Arteta too. Arenal's D had lapses, attack was lethargic. Cazorla's PK slip was an "it figures" moment. Air let out of the Gunners balloon today.

looks like coq is out until next year. and since arteta also picked up a knock, it's going to be flam in the middle for awhile.

 

[Deleted member 3875]

Gunner up 2-0 vs. Zagreb late in Champions League match. Hold on boys!

 

[IlliniDent]

Tough game for Arteta too. Arenal's D had lapses, attack was lethargic. Cazorla's PK slip was an "it figures" moment. Air let out of the Gunners balloon today.

Arteta was awful, just awful. Wenger needs to get a backup for Coq.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Olympiakos for the knockout rounds. Easy on the ouzo, Gunners.

 

[wettsten]

Olympiakos for the knockout rounds. Easy on the ouzo, Gunners.

either 2-0 or 3-2 would get us through. gunners like to dig holes for themselves to crawl out of.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Can the Foxes continue their run or is Cinderella's slipper finally broken? Do the Blues break through at White Hart Lane or the Spurs continue their run? FWIW, I have no clue, but I'm gonna watch.

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

This weekend's Premier League schedule (all times Central):

Saturday
9:00 AM, NBCSN: Manchester City vs. Southampton
11:30 AM, NBC: Leicester vs. Manchester United

Sunday
6:00 AM, USA: Spurs vs. Chelsea
8:00 AM, USA: West Ham vs. West Brom
10:00 AM, NBCSN: Liverpool vs. Swansea

 

[Joel Goodson]

Cherries! What a game. Foxes draw United. City dominant. Looking forward to the Spurs-Blues matchup tomorrow.

 

[KBLEE]

Aresnal's new logo:

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

This weekend's Premier League schedule (all times Central):

Saturday
6:45 AM, NBCSN: Stoke vs. Manchester City
9:00 AM, NBCSN: Manchester United vs. West Ham
9:00 AM, USA: Arsenal vs. Sunderland
11:30 AM, NBC: Chelsea vs. Bournemouth

Sunday
10:00 AM, NBCSN: Newcastle vs. Liverpool

Monday
2:00 PM, NBCSN: Everton vs. Crystal Palace