Thank you!
John Groce at Illinois
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Thank you!
Trust me, you aren't going to salvage the 2017 class by firing him unless you can somehow pry Teflon John away from Kentucky. Also, if you fire him, JCL likely transfers and so does LB, and then TL likely backs out of his NLOI and sacrifices a semester of eligibility by going elsewhere.
And if you really think that how our current season is going is going to cause all the 2017 recruits to not come here, then explain to me how LSU and Texas A&M were able to pull in great classes this past season? They haven't been relevant for some time but somehow pulled in top 5 classes in 2015.
I could also throw Auburn into that mix but lets be honest, we all know that their scumbag coach is doing something shady to pull that off. Once a cheater, always a cheater.
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Deleted member 11241
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I am completely astounded at the number of people who thinks it's just so easy to fire coach and go get a higher caliber guy. Seriously, do they not remember the last coaching search. Maybe they weren't fans then. If you don't know, let me enlighten you. We fired Weber and went after the hot names at the time, offered them good money and got a big fat NO. By all your accounts, we are in worse shape now than we was then. What in God's green earth makes you think all of a sudden that will work now. We more than likely will get stuck with the 4th or 5th option again and could very well end up with a worse coach which will just set us back even further. Then what happens when that coach doesn't meet some of our unrealistic expectations in 3.5 years. Fire him and start over, over and over again. That's not how you build a program
All of the pro-Illini college hoops talking heads (Seth Davis, Vitale, etc.) even said Groce was a good hire and he would get Illinois back to where it should be, but it was going to take time. I think that how we fared in Year 1 in addition to being a finalist for so many elite recruits really got everybody's hopes up that it would be a quick turnaround. Keep in mind that recruits like Snider, DJax, XRM, Cliff, Brunson, Evans, etc. would have never even considered Illinois under the Weber regime. Also we never would have landed guys like Nunn, JCL, and LB.
PaytonHighstep
- Downers Grove, IL
Sure, in the short term those things could happen. I ask, would those guys stay for the new hire? Who would the new hire be able to recruit? Would the new hire have connections for the 2017 class?
This program hasn't done anything the last 2 seasons, soon to be a 3rd season. The recent 2-3 seasons suggest the next couple could be rough for the Illini with this staff. I'm not sure this program can continue on down this path for another year or 2, which could be 5 years out of the NCAA tourney. Illinois can't have that, that's for sure.
IMO, no recruiting class should hold an AD hostage. If you need to make a change, make it. It's for the longterm health of the program.
HoopCity
- Huntsville, AL
Groce needs to land that top recruit that will turn the tide. He has tried with Cliff Alexander and money talked somewhere during this, you pick when it happened. Then there was Quentin Snider, do we need our pole in the round barn on the farm?? Elijah Thomas made an appearance too. The kid he recruited since his Ohio State days, Carlton Bragg, also bolted for Kansas. The Blue Blood Coach / School has alumni recruit for them, you decide what they do for the coach that he sometimes is not a aware of.
Groce tries to run a CLEAN program and finds it hard to compete for the top players with the dishonesty that is out there.
Groce just needs that top recruit and the others will follow. The coaches have been in on Jeremiah Tilmon from an early age, been to Illinois numerous times. I think we need to give these players the ultimatum to pick Illinois or we are going to move on. We have been getting caught in this wait and see who I pick then the ILLINI are high and dry when we don't get picked and offend other players whom we might have had a chance at. Make them play our game and forget all the theatrics of which hat has the money under it or changing your mind on signing day because dad and you were entertained illegally.
LincolnIlliniFan
- Lincoln, IL
If we were to fire Groce, there's only one man they need to offer the job to, Jerrance Howard. Bring in him, add Dee as an assistant, bring in Roger Powell from Valpo and Deon Thomas from University of Chicago I believe. There's your staff. All pro Illini and would cherish the job. I would assume Jerrance has been offered multiple HC offers but is buying his time to see what happens at Illinois.
A previous poster referred to Self and Kansas and Collins and Duke. Jerrance is in that same boat for Illinois. It's his dream job and he's a hell of a recruiter. Look at who he's landed in recruiting between Illinois, SMU and Kansas. Granted, two of those schools had great head coaches at the time but he's made ties with top players and programs around the country. He's the man for the job of they decided to move on from Groce. I think Groce is a hell of a coach and hate even mentioning him getting fired but if that day has to come, Jerrance is the only person they need to call. Not only has he had success in recruiting, look at the Greg basketball minds he's coached under. Larry Brown and Bill Self? Can't gets much better coaching tree than that.
A previous poster referred to Self and Kansas and Collins and Duke. Jerrance is in that same boat for Illinois. It's his dream job and he's a hell of a recruiter. Look at who he's landed in recruiting between Illinois, SMU and Kansas. Granted, two of those schools had great head coaches at the time but he's made ties with top players and programs around the country. He's the man for the job of they decided to move on from Groce. I think Groce is a hell of a coach and hate even mentioning him getting fired but if that day has to come, Jerrance is the only person they need to call. Not only has he had success in recruiting, look at the Greg basketball minds he's coached under. Larry Brown and Bill Self? Can't gets much better coaching tree than that.
Good point. Very intriguing option. As pro-grove as I am, I have kept in mind the possibility of him being fired and who I would want UI to hire if that ever happened. Him, Gregg Marshall, and Chris Mack would be my top choices in no particular order.
The injury excuse doesn't explain his coaching jobs against Chicago State and UIC. It doesn't explain what happened last year against Michigan and Alabama. Time after time, the team looks poorly motivated and lacks fundamentals. Illinois is 125 on Kenpom. 125! The lowest we had ever been prior to this year is in the 80s, Weber's last year. For all those who thought it couldn't get worse than Weber, here we are.
We will be favored in 4, maybe 5 games for the rest of the season. We are currently 8-8 (0-3). The 2017 high level guys are not going to come here if the team struggling this much. The staff is pressing hard with Williams, but he needs to see something on the court. Tilmon? Throw him in with the other 5 stars we finished close for. Keeping Groce for the 2017 class is not a sound strategy, because with the poor results on the court the high quality players in the 2017 class will stay away.
I like Coach Groce. I want him to succeed. But barring some sort of miracle, we cannot blame the new AD if he wants to look in another direction. Illinois basketball should NEVER be this irrelevant to the national stage.
We will be favored in 4, maybe 5 games for the rest of the season. We are currently 8-8 (0-3). The 2017 high level guys are not going to come here if the team struggling this much. The staff is pressing hard with Williams, but he needs to see something on the court. Tilmon? Throw him in with the other 5 stars we finished close for. Keeping Groce for the 2017 class is not a sound strategy, because with the poor results on the court the high quality players in the 2017 class will stay away.
I like Coach Groce. I want him to succeed. But barring some sort of miracle, we cannot blame the new AD if he wants to look in another direction. Illinois basketball should NEVER be this irrelevant to the national stage.
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Barring any other unprecedented injuries to key players, this program is not going to miss the dance 4 years in a row. We return everybody next year. I understand things look bad now, but Purdue and Maryland, two programs who have somewhat similar histories and expectations as Illinois, went through the same type of 2-3 year bad spell and were on the verge of firing their coaches. They stayed the course and look where they are now.
Maryland did it. They were arguably perceived to be in worse shape than we are now prior to the beginning of last year. Look where they are now.
Deleted member 11241
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Great point. And I would be all for that. As long as we knew Jerrance would for sure take the job. That would be a nut punch if we fired Groce then he said no. But yea, if the new ad wants a new coach and he reaches out to JH I'm all for that. Either way, Dee needs to be on the staff next year. Also, good to see you post Lincoln.
Seems an awfully big jump to immediately write in missing he tourney the next two years at this point and then run with that scenario to explain how recruiting will suffer?
They also missed post-season play in his first and third years and made the NIT in his second. So coming into this year they had as many NCAA tourney appearances as Illinois under Groce and the same number of tourney wins.
IMO there's no question Groce deserves a mulligan for this season. The real question is, can we afford the risk of giving it to him?
Good point, but what if I told you that Melo Trimble would suffer a season ending injury, and then two more of Maryland's key players were to suffer season ending injuries. In addition to that there would be two to three more key players that would suffer injuries and miss significant chunks of the season. Do you think Maryland still would have won 28 games?
If this year's Illinois team was fully healthy, they could have very realistically won 28 games. Call me crazy all you want, but the pre-season predictions were based on not knowing what to expect from newcomers like Thorne, JCL, and Finke. Get this team back to full strength and healthy next year and they will make the dance.
That sounds just too simple and level-headed to work. Hire a coach with a pedigree and close ties to the school? Surround him with others who love the UofI and are infectious in their enthusiasm? Can't possible work. That would be like say...Pat Fitzgerald making NW a legitimate football program. Ridiculous!
Looking at actual results is "backwards". That's interesting. I'm not saying the two programs are similar right now.
It's about how the Johnnys and Joes and not the X's and O's.
I'm not sure I believe this to be an absolute but think it goes a long way in determining who wins most games. I do believe we've seen an uptick in recruiting. I know injuries have just killed us. Mostly, I want to get Lucas on campus.
I'm not sure I believe this to be an absolute but think it goes a long way in determining who wins most games. I do believe we've seen an uptick in recruiting. I know injuries have just killed us. Mostly, I want to get Lucas on campus.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
Valpo on ESPN2 tonight, Drew is my #1 choice. Will tune in.
I always liked Jerrance and believe that one day he will indeed make an excellent head coach. Same, with Dee Brown. Both have the personality and charisma to become very successful in this profession, more than others.
But just hiring a bunch of ex-Illini greats, a collectivly homogeneous group with little HC experience, will not work. Even if you hire Jerrance/Dee in the future, you will have to surround them with some experienced, older assistants to provide some diversity and other experiences to players/recruits.
Jerrance would have had more offers already, but he also shot himself in the foot with some of his personal choices. Not career ending, but definitely did not help himself.
As far as Groce goes, I think he survives 2016 and will get a chance next year. He will be on the hot seat and he has to make the tournament and also recruit an excellent 2017 class, not just a good one. So I think any discussion of replacements is premature at this point.
+1
Next year should be his final chance. If he fails to make the tournament and land a big time 2017 class, then you move on from him. It makes a lot more sense to make the move next year since you will lose 5 maybe 6 guys to graduation and at that point, you likely don't lose either JCL nor LB to transfer due to them being too late into their careers to make such a move. You might lose TL but we don't know yet how he will turn out. He's having a monster senior year though.
The good news is that the Illinois job is a much more attractive job than it was in 2012. The cupboard isn't completely bare with our current roster and we have a newly renovated state of the art arena. I have said before that the renovated arena is a game changer for recruits. It's one thing to try to sell a vision to recruits through videos; its another thing to bring a recruit on a visit to see the finished product.
HoopCity
- Huntsville, AL
I like the way you think LincolnIlliniFan. The thing that bothers me is that Jerrance recruited under Blue Blood Coaches after leaving the Illini.
Judging from the way Weber and him left the Illini in somewhat shambles makes one think, was he a great recruiter for the Illini? I think there was somewhat of a tiff between him and Weber and you could see it in games during timeouts etc. You can't have 2 head coaches on the same team!
I believe he might be better as a head coach / recruiter for the Illini than he was in his past position for us. The other schools he was at had Blue Blood Coaches that attracted the top players, easy job for Jerrance making him look good and I am sure he has learned very much.
Deleted member 586966
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Why not give the new coach the chance to recruit the talented 2017 class with the momentum of not being miserable on the court? If Groce is retained and we poo the bed next year we'll be truly screwed as a program.
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