John Groce at Illinois

[bigruss22]

It's been said many times that Groce would get a pass for this year as long as the team avoids a complete meltdown, but I think perception plays a big role in it as well. The team gave the fanbase hope after the Purdue win, which skyrocketed expectations, unfairly or not. In order for Groce to keep his job for another year, there needs to be a belief that he did not significantly underachieve with his current roster. The number of wins to achieve that cannot be determined until the end of the season. I've said before that I would rather have some great wins and bad losses, than mediocre wins and so so losses, because it shows the team has a higher ceiling. With that being said, I don't think the fanbase can stomach this because it's seen as false hope. IMO, the fanbase as a whole would have been less critical of the recent losses, if we would have also lost against Purdue.

The UNL loss was the nail on top of the coffin, blowout losses will be drive that nail in.

My personal opinion is that as long as we saw improvements from the team then anything else would be gravy, but this team is not well coached or not responding to the coaching, either one is on Groce (and the players). If the players really do love Groce that much then they need to step up now, they've got the talent to win a few games still and not get blown out. If this was just a hiccup then I can probably get past it, if this is a trend through the rest of the season then Groce needs to go.

 

[Klondike]

SMH......such short memories.....lets run out the one guy who decided to take on this mess Weber left . We are on the cusp of one of the biggest classes in Illinois history.....No one wanted this job remember ?? You all whine about Groce...what about you ?? I remember a fanbase so loyal that players wanted to come here to be apart of it....Illinois Loyalty my a$$....things get tough for Illini sports you all look for someone to crucify !! Illinois is NOT an elite blue blood program. We have had years of ups and downs . You want blue blood go be a Kentucky fan !! Groce is building a team from scratch ...get it scratch...there was nothing here. It takes time ..get it time !! This team has been decimated by injury . Yep thats Groces fault... really ?? Maybe we as a fan base need to look at what we look/act like ...maybe some LOYALTY might just show this coach,team, recruits what they can expect when things get tough here......Rant over...ban me Dan if you need to.....sad state this fan base has become !!

This is nonsense. Groce did not come take on the challenge of Illinois basketball out of some sense of altruism. It was a huge step up in salary and stage, for a guy who had a mediocre record in the MAC. As pointed out above, "no coaches wanted to come here" is foolish. The coaches that turned us down were Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens, guys who could and did hold out for much better options.

It is not our job as fans to be loyal to John Groce. We are loyal to Illinois, and we have every right to demand better than what this program has become. The mess Weber made? Groce has made it worse in every aspect. We were 82nd on Kenpom in Weber's final year. After 4 years, Groce instituting his program, we are 121. The worst team in Illinois history. Recruiting has even gotten worse. That Bruce Weber guy that's so horrible? He's got a Kansas St team with far less talent at 48th on Kenpom currently.

The reality of the situation is, we've heard from multiple sources (Werner and Piper on the radio Monday, for one) that the higher level recruits are waiting to see what happens with this season and with John Groce before committing to Illinois. So keep holding out for that magic bullet 2017 recruiting class, but each game like last night makes that pipe dream even less likely.

Getting emotional about loyalty to a coach makes it impossible to evaluate his record. But the indicators are all bad. And even his heralded motivating and his alleged press conference winning is circling the drain, with every bus tossing press conference like the last two. Groce is going to get at least the rest of this season to pull off a miracle, because we have no AD. We're all hoping he pulls it off, and Illinois is relevant again. But don't delude yourself into thinking he's above criticism because he coaches our program.

 

[Sleepy Floyd]

I think if we move on from Groce we would likely see the hiring process play out the exact same way the last one did. we would go after top tier coaches like Chris Mack and Greg Marshall. They will most likely turn us down, then we wi have to go after a unproven guy from the mid majors and that is a crap shoot. The attributes I would want in this coach would be as follows: great recruiter, ties to the Midwest, and an up tempo style. I think if you are a great recruiter you should be able to sell guys on vision alone. This would prevent us from losing too much momentum as a program.

 

[I Bomb]

Not a blue blood, not elite, nobody wanted the job... Illinois is #10 in all time AP poll appearances, with an average rank of 12. Number 11 in all-time win percentage in college basketball (probably dropped since 2012 I'm guessing). Outside of the "blue bloods" - the Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Duke group, we are SQUARELY in the next group, and I suppose fans are wondering what the hell has happened over the last 8 years or so, and why no coaching staff seems capable of, not building from scratch, but continuing one of the strongest traditions in college basketball.

This is my take on it, anyway, and actually doesn't have anything to do with whether Groce stays or goes. For the record, I'm in support of whatever coach can do what fans are justifiably accustomed to for the last several decades or so. Groce, Weber, Krystkowiak

 

[IlliniOX08]

This is nonsense. Groce did not come take on the challenge of Illinois basketball out of some sense of altruism. It was a huge step up in salary and stage, for a guy who had a mediocre record in the MAC. As pointed out above, "no coaches wanted to come here" is foolish. The coaches that turned us down were Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens, guys who could and did hold out for much better options.

It is not our job as fans to be loyal to John Groce. We are loyal to Illinois, and we have every right to demand better than what this program has become. The mess Weber made? Groce has made it worse in every aspect. We were 82nd on Kenpom in Weber's final year. After 4 years, Groce instituting his program, we are 121. The worst team in Illinois history. Recruiting has even gotten worse. That Bruce Weber guy that's so horrible? He's got a Kansas St team with far less talent at 48th on Kenpom currently.

The reality of the situation is, we've heard from multiple sources (Werner and Piper on the radio Monday, for one) that the higher level recruits are waiting to see what happens with this season and with John Groce before committing to Illinois. So keep holding out for that magic bullet 2017 recruiting class, but each game like last night makes that pipe dream even less likely.

Getting emotional about loyalty to a coach makes it impossible to evaluate his record. But the indicators are all bad. And even his heralded motivating and his alleged press conference winning is circling the drain, with every bus tossing press conference like the last two. Groce is going to get at least the rest of this season to pull off a miracle, because we have no AD. We're all hoping he pulls it off, and Illinois is relevant again. But don't delude yourself into thinking he's above criticism because he coaches our program.

All of this. Especially the part about emotion. Allowing emotion in to evaluations will always cloud the outcome. I like Groce the person. I wish Groce was more successful producing results up to this point. It's not working though otherwise we would be winning more games, injuries or not. The focus has to be on results. It's year 4, the results aren't good and they're getting worse.

 

[Dayman]

I hope the players don't quit on the season. It isn't fair to KN and MH that 3 of their fellow starters are injured. They are playing big ten basketball with the second team on the floor with them. It is hard enough to compete with the regular starters.

Groce has made mistakes and had some crappy luck here on the recruiting trail but we as fans bear some of that responsibility. If he wasn't going for the best people would have been pissed. He swung for the fences thinking he had a veteran backup each time at point guard and he suffers not one but two freak injuries in back to back seasons. As far as recruiting the center position, that is fair game to complain about.

The thing that bothers me the most is Ford's sub patterns, which falls on Groce. He needs to take over that responsibility. I would like to see him get one more year because while he does have some faults, they're being magnified by the injuries. I know that is part of it, but as a former coach I can appreciate what it is like to not have your best players available.

 

[Klondike]

All of this. Especially the part about emotion. Allowing emotion in to evaluations will always cloud the outcome. I like Groce the person. I wish Groce was more successful producing results up to this point. It's not working though otherwise we would be winning more games, injuries or not. The focus has to be on results. It's year 4, the results aren't good and they're getting worse.

Exactly. We all like Groce the person, and we all wish he was more successful.

Bryce Drew has the Rev, Roger Powell on his staff, would definitely bring him to Illinois if we go that direction.

 

[Butkuser]

DeadI (right now an unfortunate clipping of that moniker) and Klondike make excellent points. This is Illinois Loyalty, not JFG Loyalty.

Look, I like the guy, everybody does, but you have to improve the situation. Groce was brought in to make us better...period. All indications are that he has not. Really sorry to have to say it, but it is not looking good at all for his future, and Illinois' future is more important than his.

 

[bigruss22]

I hope the players don't quit on the season. It isn't fair to KN and MH that 3 of their fellow starters are injured. They are playing big ten basketball with the second team on the floor with them. It is hard enough to compete with the regular starters.

There is blame aplenty on those guys as well, don't make them out to be such victims.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I was all for giving him a mulligan due to the injuries.

After the Nebraska game and last night. It's time to move on. He should be fired the day after we have a new AD.

I like John Groce, but he's not going to get Illinois back to the promiseland. We're in year 4, where we should be safely in the tournament and now we don't have a chance at the NIT.

It's time. Fire JG.

 

[IlliniOllie]

Don't confuse loyalty to the O&B with loyalty to the head coach. Loyalty and respect are earned, and putting a worse and worse product on the court every year is not a good way to earn it.

*ding* Well put.

 

[ILL in IA]

When are we going to realize with college sports its not all about the record a coach had in his last year here. Webber had a better kenpom rank in his last year. Who cares. This was a sinking ship with Webber, and he hadn't hit rock bottom. Rock bottom was 2-3 years away with Webber and where he had the program going. Groce has been bailing water his entire time here. From the mess Webber left and the injuries his teams have taken on. Do I think this year if fine for Illinois basketball, NOPE, and am I ok with the fact that the first real PG to commit doesn't show up until next year, NOPE, but I would like to see Groce take his first class all the way through, and see what direction he has the program in. If next years team can't get the job done, its pretty easy to send Groce on his way. Im just not there yet.

 

[Newman]

I was all for giving him a mulligan due to the injuries.

After the Nebraska game and last night. It's time to move on. He should be fired the day after we have a new AD.

I like John Groce, but he's not going to get Illinois back to the promiseland. We're in year 4, where we should be safely in the tournament and now we don't have a chance at the NIT.

It's time. Fire JG.

I wish this was parody.

 

[DragonIlliniFan]

I hope the players don't quit on the season. It isn't fair to KN and MH that 3 of their fellow starters are injured. They are playing big ten basketball with the second team on the floor with them. It is hard enough to compete with the regular starters.

Groce has made mistakes and had some crappy luck here on the recruiting trail but we as fans bear some of that responsibility. If he wasn't going for the best people would have been pissed. He swung for the fences thinking he had a veteran backup each time at point guard and he suffers not one but two freak injuries in back to back seasons. As far as recruiting the center position, that is fair game to complain about.

The thing that bothers me the most is Ford's sub patterns, which falls on Groce. He needs to take over that responsibility. I would like to see him get one more year because while he does have some faults, they're being magnified by the injuries. I know that is part of it, but as a former coach I can appreciate what it is like to not have your best players available.

We really need to stop giving Malcolm and Nunn a pass.

 

[CIIF]

we would go after top tier coaches like Chris Mack and Greg Marshall. They will most likely turn us down, then we wi have to go after a unproven guy from the mid majors

We need to decide whether we want to pay the money or be perpetual losers. It is very simple. It's ALL about money. For enough money we could have Calipari... Just saying.

 

[coryfor3]

I've been patient and understood that there are a lot of circumstances that have made it difficult to succeed at Illinois and get things turned around. However, there have been missteps by the staff. Whether it is choosing to take the transfers or an inability to recruit to get high schoolers, the lack of continuity in the program and really, a lack of promising talent has been a continuing sore spot for me.

For a guy who has been recruiter of the year, it sure doesn't appear that the staff has a handle on the best way to manage their recruiting efforts. That may be way off but that is how it appears.

I thought Groce's test would be the 2017 class. I thought if he recruited that class well, he would have a chance to coach them and then either succeed or fail. However, I wonder if the cloud and embarrassment hanging over the program will actually discourage 2017 recruits from coming here. Unless something changes very soon, the only way to turn things around is a really dynamic hire of someone with the cache to turn around a program in a year or two. Look at Mississippi State, Auburn, Virginia, etc. It doesn't have to take forever to see progress.

I keep thinking if there would be a better alternative to the current staff. I am not sure that there are too many other options of guys that would both actually be willing to take the job and be a difference maker. I don't like this any better than anyone else, but when I consider someone who can do what needs to be done at Illinois, all the boxes are checked with Jeff Capel.

 

[miggytorres]

Biggest downfalls of Groce:
1) Never got an A-list point guard
2) Never recruited healthy, mature alpha-leaders who pulled team chemistry upwards
3) Never hired assistant coaches that were older and more mature
4) Showed glimpses of out-coaching teams with better talent, but regularly beaten by Ryan, Izzo, Belien, McCaff, etc.

For those wanting the ax to fall....careful what you wish for. Here's to hoping the Animal Sciences Professor-led committee picks a great AD.....right?

 

[ole 99]

What is frustrating about this situation is that we won't be doing anything until we have a new AD in place. As much as I would like to see us move on from the Groce era, I'd much rather the new AD make the hire than the interim regime in place. Of course that assumes we can hire someone decent for that job...

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

When are we going to realize with college sports its not all about the record a coach had in his last year here. Webber had a better kenpom rank in his last year. Who cares. This was a sinking ship with Webber, and he hadn't hit rock bottom. Rock bottom was 2-3 years away with Webber and where he had the program going. Groce has been bailing water his entire time here. From the mess Webber left and the injuries his teams have taken on. Do I think this year if fine for Illinois basketball, NOPE, and am I ok with the fact that the first real PG to commit doesn't show up until next year, NOPE, but I would like to see Groce take his first class all the way through, and see what direction he has the program in. If next years team can't get the job done, its pretty easy to send Groce on his way. Im just not there yet.

In no way do I disagree with this. Weber left a talented roster for the 2012-2013 campaign. It showed and I think we saw what kind of coach JG can be. He took a team that flopped the final month of the year and seemingly turned it around. To me, he gave players like Paul, Richardson, Griffey more confidence in what they could do and it showed.

But, what Weber would have had for the 2013-2014 team, had he stayed would have been abysmal. Had he still been here for that season, it would probably be as bad as this one, record wise.

In 2003 Weber was handed the keys to a Cadillac in the desert and told to drive. Instead he drove it off a cliff multiple times. We heard the excuses, wait till he gets (insert this player) or this player. He clearly didn't have a great eye for talent. You don't come off the run we had from 2003-2006 and plummet like we did, but he sure found a way. RG passed up on way more talented coaches than Weber, but chose the doof because he knew he'd never leave, yet only the program and the fans suffered.

JG was handed a !!!! sandwich from day 1. He's done his best to turn it around. I feel like he focused too much on the homerun recruits instead of getting talent in that could win and get us back to every year Tournament appearances. In doing so he's left himself scrambling when it doesn't come through. He's been trying to bucket out water out of a sinking ship since he got here. Sadly, it keeps sinking.

 

[Klondike]

Home run hires: Marshall, Kruger (highly unlikely)
Great hires: Miller, Mack (unlikely)
Good hires: Bryce Drew, Ben Jacobsen, Larry Krystkowiak

If Shad Khan is serious about wanting to influence the direction of Illinois athletics, he's more than welcome to pony up the money required to get one of the top tier guys. Drew is a realistic hire, who has had sustained success at a mid major. He has Roger Powell on staff, throw Dee on there and he could kill it on the recruiting trail. I only mention these guys to show there are options out there. We don't need to stick with what we have because there's a fear of hiring someone worse, that's never a good plan.

 

[coryfor3]

We need to decide whether we want to pay the money or be perpetual losers. It is very simple. It's ALL about money. For enough money we could have Calipari... Just saying.

These coach discussions are unreal sometimes.
Calipari is never coming here for even 10 million a year.
Gregg Marshall is not coming here.
Archie Miller is not coming here.
I don't believe there is a current head coach in the NCAA that would be a notable step up from Groce. Might as well opt for continuity and keep Groce if firing him means you go hire another mediocre mid-major option.
This job lost its shine when Guenther went out and made the "safe" choice of Weber because he wanted someone who would never leave. Guenther should have rode the momentum Self built, not been so personally hurt by Self leaving and picked a more dynamic coach.
If Groce goes, we would are left with another uninspiring mid-major choice or trying to find an Chicago guy to try to prop up recruiting or make a choice to try to find a current Assistant that can do the job.

 

[dmac279]

SMH......such short memories.....lets run out the one guy who decided to take on this mess Weber left . We are on the cusp of one of the biggest classes in Illinois history.....No one wanted this job remember ?? You all whine about Groce...what about you ?? I remember a fanbase so loyal that players wanted to come here to be apart of it....Illinois Loyalty my a$$....things get tough for Illini sports you all look for someone to crucify !! Illinois is NOT an elite blue blood program. We have had years of ups and downs . You want blue blood go be a Kentucky fan !! Groce is building a team from scratch ...get it scratch...there was nothing here. It takes time ..get it time !! This team has been decimated by injury . Yep thats Groces fault... really ?? Maybe we as a fan base need to look at what we look/act like ...maybe some LOYALTY might just show this coach,team, recruits what they can expect when things get tough here......Rant over...ban me Dan if you need to.....sad state this fan base has become !!

Bing!

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Biggest downfalls of Groce:
1) Never got an A-list point guard
2) Never recruited healthy, mature alpha-leaders who pulled team chemistry upwards
3) Never hired assistant coaches that were older and more mature
4) Showed glimpses of out-coaching teams with better talent, but regularly beaten by Ryan, Izzo, Belien, McCaff, etc.

For those wanting the ax to fall....careful what you wish for. Here's to hoping the Animal Sciences Professor-led committee picks a great AD.....right?

After the faceplant at the end of last year, the first thing that should have happened was blow up the staff.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

We need to decide whether we want to pay the money or be perpetual losers. It is very simple. It's ALL about money. For enough money we could have Calipari... Just saying.

You wouldn't get Cal.

But if you shelled out the $$$$'s Gregg Marshall would leave Wichita State or maybe get an assistant from an NBA staff.

Money talks and bull!!!! walks boys. For the right amount of money, you can get anyone to come here. Sadly the BOT are a bunch of cheapskates.

Just not Cal, he ain't leaving the green green grass of Kentucky.

 

[Klondike]

These coach discussions are unreal sometimes.
Calipari is never coming here for even 10 million a year.
Gregg Marshall is not coming here.
Archie Miller is not coming here.
I don't believe there is a current head coach in the NCAA that would be a notable step up from Groce. Might as well opt for continuity and keep Groce if firing him means you go hire another mediocre mid-major option.
This job lost its shine when Guenther went out and made the "safe" choice of Weber because he wanted someone who would never leave. Guenther should have rode the momentum Self built, not been so personally hurt by Self leaving and picked a more dynamic coach.
If Groce goes, we would are left with another uninspiring mid-major choice or trying to find an Chicago guy to try to prop up recruiting or make a choice to try to find a current Assistant that can do the job.

The exact low level mentality you decry Guenther for having, you then go on to have yourself saying we can't fire Groce because you don't believe Illinois can land a good coach. Think about that.