John Groce at Illinois

[Second and Chalmers]

If the new AD decides to fire Groce and hire a new coach, I think who that AD is will possibly influence the type of candidates we could land. A guy like Tiley might be able to bring in a coach like Drew (or even better).

But, if the administration ends up hiring a decent, but not inspiring AD, like Tom Michael, we would likely not be able to bring in a quality coach.

That makes more sense the less you think about it.

All Bryce Drew is going to know is that our AD has been here for 15 minutes. The subjective perceptions on message boards of the strength of candidates that we know barely anything about is not going to enter into it.

 

[Obelix]

I don't really think Northwestern can be added there. Their ceiling is an NIT berth, and certainly aren't going anywhere near the NCAAs. They have yet to have a single season of success. Their Kenpom rank is 97. Bill Carmody put together a better four year stretch (2009-2013) than any season of Collins.

Yeah, Northwestern doesn't belong in this discussion, not in basketball. At least not yet...

 

[Obelix]

If the new AD decides to fire Groce and hire a new coach, I think who that AD is will possibly influence the type of candidates we could land. A guy like Tiley might be able to bring in a coach like Drew (or even better).

But, if the administration ends up hiring a decent, but not inspiring AD, like Tom Michael, we would likely not be able to bring in a quality coach.

Tiley is hardly a "big name" AD hire with connections to the basketball coaching ranks that would automatically be able to attract the "hot" names in the coaching market (although I do not consider Bryce Drew such a "hot" name, I think our opinion of him on Illini boards has been influenced by having Roger as his assistant) .

Tiley would be a good candidate though. Having said that, I do not expect Tiley and expect a lesser name AD currently at smaller school (no specific one).

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Tiley is hardly a "big name" AD hire with connections to the basketball coaching ranks that would automatically be able to attract the "hot" names in the coaching market (although I do not consider Bryce Drew such a "hot" name, I think our opinion of him on Illini boards has been influenced by having Roger as his assistant) .

Tiley would be a good candidate though. Having said that, I do not expect Tiley and expect a lesser name AD currently at smaller school (no specific one).

It is curious to me that people don't see a bigger downside risk in a guy who has no experience in NCAA administration (or football or basketball at any level) and has only lived in America for like 15 years of his life ending over a decade ago.

It kinda speaks to the fact that the fanbase has dissolved down to a skeleton crew of people so dedicated as to have intimate knowledge of mid-aughts Illini tennis.

 

[zpfled]

It is curious to me that people don't see a bigger downside risk in a guy who has no experience in NCAA administration and has only lived in America for like 15 years of his life ending over a decade ago.

It kinda speaks to the fact that the fanbase has dissolved down to a skeleton crew of people so dedicated as to have intimate knowledge of mid-aughts Illini tennis.

Or that we all just know how to Google a name we haven't heard before

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Like, if Tiley comes in and diverts one red cent away from the two revenue programs toward anything else everyone is going to have an aneurysm. We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

Can you imagine the media field day if he says something clumsy demonstrating a lack of understanding of football or basketball? We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

 

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Yes, I honestly think we would have been a tourney team if we had been healthy. Even without Abrams I think we would have made the tourney.

Thorne was healthy when we lost to N. Florida and Chattanooga, as well as the game where we barely squeaked by Chicago State. Healthy or not, they were not going to be good enough to make the tournament.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Its not just getting the right guy, its also will this fanbase give that guy a chance?

If we go with a new coach, we will have some turnover and take a step back on the recruiting front. Will this fanbase give a new coach time to establish a recruiting pipeline or will they quickly turn on the guy at the first sign of adversity?

I fully expected this season to be a tourney year with a decent seed, but I feel the injuries completely derailed it. That is why I'm willing to give Groce a pass this year.

As others have said before, if it weren't for the injuries, I don't think we would be having this conversation.

At this point a lot have given up on Groce, so who gets more slack from fans, him or the new guy? Probably the latter.

I think we would have made the tournament as well if healthy and I still think Groce probably does get that additional chance next year.

But I also wouldn't find fault if the choice was to move on now. Yes, he's had a lot of bad luck but so did Weber. It's a bottom line business and sometimes it's just about the W/L record and not the details behind it.

Thorne was healthy when we lost to N. Florida and Chattanooga, as well as the game where we barely squeaked by Chicago State. Healthy or not, they were not going to be good enough to make the tournament.

But we didn't have Nunn, Black or Tate for those first two games. If we had everyone healthy, we're at worst a bubble team and probably better than that.

 

[HerbertFish]

Like, if Tiley comes in and diverts one red cent away from the two revenue programs toward anything else everyone is going to have an aneurysm. We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

Can you imagine the media field day if he says something clumsy demonstrating a lack of understanding of football or basketball? We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

I don't think he'll have to divert anything because I truly believe he'd be a fundraising mastermind. Are we 100% sure? Nah but it's tough to be that for anyone. Tiley excites me more than any candidate. He comes off as too intelligent to screw up much, but yeah I've pretty much only heard him speak with regards to tennis. Still, you could do worse than hiring a guy who reached basically the pinnacle of executive power in his individual sport.

 

[Obelix]

It is curious to me that people don't see a bigger downside risk in a guy who has no experience in NCAA administration (or football or basketball at any level) and has only lived in America for like 15 years of his life ending over a decade ago.

It kinda speaks to the fact that the fanbase has dissolved down to a skeleton crew of people so dedicated as to have intimate knowledge of mid-aughts Illini tennis.

I can tell you with certainty that Tiley was very involved in the athletic department beyond just tennis. He knows the basketball and football implications and how budgets work. At one point, I know he was very interested in a more expanded role, before the Australian opportunity materialized.

He would not be a "big name" AD who would immediately be able to attract the "hot" basketball and football coaches, but I believe he would do a good job. As I said, though, I doubt he is a candidate. Expect an AD currently involved in a smaller school.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Can you imagine the media field day if he says something clumsy demonstrating a lack of understanding of football or basketball? We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

If we get to a point where our biggest pain point is a Craig Tiley media faux pas about football or basketball we should throw a g**damn parade.

 

[EJ33]

Like, if Tiley comes in and diverts one red cent away from the two revenue programs toward anything else everyone is going to have an aneurysm. We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

Can you imagine the media field day if he says something clumsy demonstrating a lack of understanding of football or basketball? We're 1000% sure that's not going to happen?

I think Tiley is very interesting because I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, two things:

1) He can raise lots of money because he's proven he can develop a vision and sell it to the right people

2) He understands that football is the engine for the entire athletic program and better football means a) he gets to keep the job as long as he wants it, b) he'll be a hero, and c) he will have a lot more money to invest in non-revenue sports.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

If we get to a point where our biggest pain point is a Craig Tiley media faux pas about football or basketball we should throw a g**damn parade.

Rebuilding credibility is going to be job #1 of the next guy. I'm not saying Tiley can't do that, I'm just a little curious about thinking two continents and an ocean outside the box.

 

[Newman]

Yeah, Northwestern doesn't belong in this discussion, not in basketball. At least not yet...

I think they are viewed more positively than Illinois at the present time. They also had key injuries, but people believe in Chris Collins (which can change if they don't make a tourney appearance soon). Do I believe that NU is a better program? No way, but I think the perception is changing in the city and state with recruits viewing them more favorably.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

He understands that football is the engine for the entire athletic program

Listen, I don't want to seem xenophobic or anything here, I am sure Tiley is a bright guy and he would treat the revenue sports with great care and professionalism, but I don't see how you can just take the quoted to be true.

When we're talking about football and basketball coaches, we have in-depth track records to look at of the candidate having done a very similar, comparable job. We also have reams of data on how other similar transitions have gone, what a good coaching candidate looks like, etc.

We don't have anything like that for AD's, and none of the candidates that have been mentioned has ever hired or fired a D1 revenue sport coach.

I think we've just made a list in order of how hypothetically difficult the names that have been publicized will be to get. That's not much to go on, IMO.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Rebuilding credibility is going to be job #1 of the next guy. I'm not saying Tiley can't do that, I'm just a little curious about thinking two continents and an ocean outside the box.

I think your concern is the right one...but I also think it makes Tiley an even more appealing candidate.

This will be a big picture type of fix for whoever takes this job. As you have often pointed out, this isn't just "this guy worked at that school with a good football coach, so he's probably good" - this is a little bit about sports and a lot about politicking, branding, and as above, convincing people that perennial success is possible and you know the path there.

Some people have the knack for getting things done and getting others to follow their plan. Tiley's track record would seem to suggest he's a person like that. I had a chance to interact with him frequently when he was the tennis coach, and while yes, he was very good at that, my impression was that he would probably be quite good at whatever he did.

I said something similar in the AD thread, but there are few more challenging job propositions than "Illinois AD, 2016"...and "turn Illinois into a national collegiate tennis powerhouse" might be one of them.

 

[Obelix]

I think we've just made a list in order of how hypothetically difficult the names that have been publicized will be to get. That's not much to go on, IMO.

The AD search is beyond the point of hypothesizing candidates.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

The AD search is beyond the point of hypothesizing candidates.

I mean among the fans.

We can't get Rick George so he's #1. Tiley is supposedly angry about the hiring process in 2011 and has a good job elsewhere so he's #2. Sean Frazier might be able to get other offers so he's #3, etc.

 

[EJ33]

Listen, I don't want to seem xenophobic or anything here, I am sure Tiley is a bright guy and he would treat the revenue sports with great care and professionalism, but I don't see how you can just take the quoted to be true.

When we're talking about football and basketball coaches, we have in-depth track records to look at of the candidate having done a very similar, comparable job. We also have reams of data on how other similar transitions have gone, what a good coaching candidate looks like, etc.

We don't have anything like that for AD's, and none of the candidates that have been mentioned has ever hired or fired a D1 revenue sport coach.

I think we've just made a list in order of how hypothetically difficult the names that have been publicized will be to get. That's not much to go on, IMO.

Your concerns are well founded. There are definitely questions about Tiley. He does have one thing that other candidates lack though - a track record of excellence. He's taken two underdogs and made them the best - Illinois Tennis and The Australian Open.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Your concerns are well founded. There are definitely questions about Tiley. He does have one thing that other candidates lack though - a track record of excellence. He's taken two underdogs and made them the best - Illinois Tennis and The Australian Open.

The Australian Open is the best? How so?

 

[chief2007]

My main concern with replacing Groce is that TJL may decommit, we may also lose some of our current players and we will definitely miss out on our top targets in the 2017 class.

(Note: I'm not saying that Groce will definitely land an excellent 2017 class, but I think we would have a better chance with him than a new coach.)

If that happens, the new coach will likely have to scramble to fill up the scholarships for the 2017 class with lesser players. With the drop off in talent from departures/decommits and a patched together 2017 class, we will have three more years of mediocrity, as we push back the rebuilding timeline once again.

Groce has shown that he can coach, by turning around the team he inherited and getting them to the dance his first year. Give him a chance to prove himself with a healthy squad next year and the 2017 recruiting class. If those fall apart, I will be the first one on here calling for his head.

You bring in the right coach and he wins next year he will have the better chance of bringing in the big 2017 class.

Keeping Groce and his poor system and failure to make tournament will not attract a big class in 2017.

 

[HerbertFish]

The Australian Open is the best? How so?

Most fans, most money.

 

[Lafong]

Hornacek fired

If we're looking. . .

 

[Obelix]

I mean among the fans.

We can't get Rick George so he's #1. Tiley is supposedly angry about the hiring process in 2011 and has a good job elsewhere so he's #2. Sean Frazier might be able to get other offers so he's #3, etc.

There have been media reports already, so it is beyond the point of fans hypothesizing as well.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Most fans, most money.

Really? And this was not the case when he took over? Would be interested to read any info.