Why are you hesitating???
Villanova 77, North Carolina 74
Pretty much everyone on my Facebook who thought UNC would win, even if they aren't fans, were complaining about the refs. They all said the refs were "cheating". All I could think was, that's rich, talking about unc. And all I could remember was 05, and just thought to myself, good.
Didn't really care who won. Although I kinda wanted NC to win so the whiners would have something to talk about. I agree with the posts about already missing college basketball except for the officiating. (not just last night's game). College officiating is awful. I don't think that it costs games for teams as much has it makes game hard to watch because there is no flow.
Now that Nova has won the title, just wondering what people's thoughts are about small ball. It seems that everyone likes to talk about how we need more bigs on the recruiting thread, but Nova just proved that small ball can work.
Using the information from ESPN.
Starters
Ryan Arcidiacano - G - 6'3" - played 25 min
Jalen Brunson - G - 6'3" - played 22 min
Josh Hart - G - 6'5" - played 38 min
Kris Jenkins - F - 6'6" - played 21 min
Daniel Ochefu - F - 6'11" - played 32 min
Bench
Phil Booth - G - 6'3" - played 25min
Mikal Bridges - G - 6'7" - played 15 min
Darryl Reynolds - F - 6'8" - played 10 min
Nova only started one player over 6'7". The 3 players 6'7" and over that played in the championship game combined for 57 minutes of playing time (32 min coming from Ochefu). Its not like they were going up against a small Front Line either. I don't know how it finished up, but at one put late in the game Nova had actually outscored Carolina in the paint.
Thoughts?
Using the information from ESPN.
Starters
Ryan Arcidiacano - G - 6'3" - played 25 min
Jalen Brunson - G - 6'3" - played 22 min
Josh Hart - G - 6'5" - played 38 min
Kris Jenkins - F - 6'6" - played 21 min
Daniel Ochefu - F - 6'11" - played 32 min
Bench
Phil Booth - G - 6'3" - played 25min
Mikal Bridges - G - 6'7" - played 15 min
Darryl Reynolds - F - 6'8" - played 10 min
Nova only started one player over 6'7". The 3 players 6'7" and over that played in the championship game combined for 57 minutes of playing time (32 min coming from Ochefu). Its not like they were going up against a small Front Line either. I don't know how it finished up, but at one put late in the game Nova had actually outscored Carolina in the paint.
Thoughts?
If you play defense and make shots, I don't think it matters how tall they are.
However, while you point out the heights, it is important to note just how big Ochefu is and how long a number of guys on the Villanova team are.
This topic reminds me of one D sequence when Brunson was fronting Johnson...and doing it fairly effectively. What impressed me most on Villanova is their discipline and fundamentals on D. They got beat on the boards but locked in a little better in the 2d half. No all Americans and I think only one 5 star (JB). Everyone Knew his role and pulled their weight. This game proves that teamwork can overcome a talent gap (and size gap).
Their guards battled to deny post entry against bad match-ups all night. They were well coached for that aspect, and that's what allows them to play such a bombs-away small ball lineup.
This is somewhat my point, a number of people look at a guy like Terrece Lewis and want to argue that he can't play the four because he is only 6'5" or 6'6", but they don't take his arm length/reach into consideration at all.
I just thought it would be some good discussion because of what we just watched happen last night!
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Villanova shot nearly 60% from the field and from 3, that is why they won. They gave up 65% from 3 on defense and a lot of rebounds. The shot making won them the game. Don't over analyze this one.
Carolina is big and there bigs run the floor well, they didn't use either last night. Credit to Villanova for great "D" and effort to shut down the inside, the surprising thing about points in the paint to me was how few points NC got in the paint. NC isn't a great 3 pt shooting team & NC getting hot in the beginning from 3 may have been part of there downfall in giving them a false sense of confidence & then relying to much on the outside game. For Villanova on offense it would be interesting to see who scored the points in the paint, because it sure seemed like most of them where guards on layups vs. the traditional throw it into a big posting up.
In the end, I think Villanova played the smarter/harder game & took NC out of what they should have been doing...but the game was tight enough that it easily could have went the other way in overtime or the flip side barring the late rally by NC could have been a 10 pt Villanova win. Tonight the smaller team won, but I think in the end it is just Villanova playing really good basketball at the right time.
Very fair point
A defensive clinic. Pressured the perimeter, switched on picks, changed up defenses a few times. Disciplined both on offense and defense although there were times where there was a bit too much one on one by NOVA, particularly late game when the guards were trying to get all the way to the rim and allowing the UNC bigs to get relatively easy blocks.
If UNC doesn't make those threes in the first half Nova wins by 8-9 points. UNC couldn't make entry passes into their dominant front line. I didn't believe NOVA would be able to pull that off. Great last play. Arcidiocano played a great game, once again showing the value of an intelligent, experienced point guard.
I wasn't that interested in watching the game as I feared it would be a Roy William's/UNC slobberfest. Glad I did.
If UNC doesn't make those threes in the first half Nova wins by 8-9 points. UNC couldn't make entry passes into their dominant front line. I didn't believe NOVA would be able to pull that off. Great last play. Arcidiocano played a great game, once again showing the value of an intelligent, experienced point guard.
I wasn't that interested in watching the game as I feared it would be a Roy William's/UNC slobberfest. Glad I did.
I thought the primary thing they did, that we do not, was stay in front of their man at all times. It was really difficult for UNC to get to the basket cleanly. In contrast, we give up after the first step and expect someone else to clean it up. You can't put that much pressure on the rest of the team. Not only do you need to play good team defense but you need individual accountability as well, and Villanova seemed to own that.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
I only watched the last 8 minutes or so, but I was very impressed with Nova's poise. Arch is a very smart PG who made some exceptional decisions--especially giving up the ball at the end of the game.
Nice to see Roy come out on the wrong side, especially against a Big East team.
Nice to see Roy come out on the wrong side, especially against a Big East team.
As said many times, height is not the main issue in a player's position. Villanova is extremely talented and well coached. Their strengths are actually our weaknesses. Our two main gaps have been PG and C. Villanova has the luxury of having two of the best PGs in the college game playing along each other: Arcidiacono (ranked just outside top-50 in HS) and Brunson (McD AA). At C, they have Ochefu (top 50 in HS) who is 6'11", a true C, and one of the best C in college today. I had met Ochefu in person 3 years ago and my first reaction was that he needed strength. Give him credit for transforming his body and adding strength.
Josh Hart was a top-80 recruit (4*) highly ranked SF. I saw Kris Jenkins many times in AAU and HS, and he was a top-75 recruit who was considered one of the best (if not the best) PF in Mid-Atlantic. This was not a SF who made the transition to PF. Actually, the surprise has been how Jenkins has developed his outside game and shooting.
Villanova deserves a lot of credit for winning the NC. They were not deep, but make no mistake, they have very talented players with 3 of the top players at PG and C in the entire college basketball and their starting lineup was extremely talented.
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That's debateable. What made Kris Jenkins a power forward and not a small forward? From what I saw, he played like a small forward in high school.
I saw him in quite a few games in HS and AAU. Most of his points came inside, back then he was honestly kind of a chubby kid, but agile. The coaches that I talk to all considered him a PF and that was the general perception. Biggest surprise IMO was the development of his outside game, and working on his body in the opposite direction of Ochefu.
Edit: I actually just checked, and all the main sites (Scout, Rivals, 247) also listed him as PF back then.
Really wish someone would have asked Roy Williams how his players felt after the loss and then followed up by asking what he would tell the players who lost to his teams full of ineligible players.
I noticed that as well but I thought that was more due to him being able to overpower kids at the high school level with his extra baggage. I think he would have been labelled as a small forward if he was skinnier. Either way, I think he's a good example of a tweener, which I love at the college level.
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Actually that's a decent-sized lineup for college basketball. Not sure I'd even call it "small-ball" in the year 2016.
It still amazes me the number of posters here who think you need to have a NBA-sized lineup to succeed.
IMO; don't you think he was able to play PF(inside) on defense better than UNC PF was able to play SF on offense?
Villanova looked outmanned underneath on the boards in particular... but Villanova including Jenkins did a very effective job defensively covering UNC big; better than UNC bigs did chasing Villanova bigs and opening up the court for Villanova guards to maneuver. Point being I don't think Villanova's success has anything to do with how traditional of a PF Jenkins was. But they did a very good job on UNC bigs, good enough that it didn't offset how much better Villanova guard play was.
In a separate note, if you look at roster & listed sizes, Villanova was bigger at 3 of 5 positions (1,2,5) for most of the night.
Yeah, the 3 point line has altered things permanently. UNC is more the outlier now, taking a ton of 2 point shots and cleaning up on the glass with their size up front. That method works but is tougher to pull off for the majority of programs.
Deleted member 3875
D
Guest
Nova D was a clinic to watch last night.
Not saying they share any attributes, but Sir Charles is somewhere between 6' 4" and 6' 6", depending on the source, and he played some 5 at Auburn, and was a 4 in the NBA.
Just like Nova just proved, you can be shorter and get it done with great D and tenacity.