Agree but it wasn't the pay check he envisioned
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April-June 2016)
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Agree but it wasn't the pay check he envisioned
Alexander was supposed to be a top 3 pick before the year started. He went undrafted and lost out on millions and millions of more dollars. And my point isn't about Self anyway, its about playing time.
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Playing time is a factor, but just one of the many factors. The reason that blue bloods have an advantage is that they have name power that gets them maximum exposure, regularly contend for NCs, have HOF coaches, and regularly send players to the NBA. That is why you often see them get multiple top recruits in consecutive classes versus the rest of the schools.
People get enamored by top recruits for good reason, and in the case of UI, we are starving for the next McD AA. We have gone with 1 McD AA since 2002, which is the longest drought in Illini history. But the assertion that next top recruit will be an instant hit at UI and have the shortest path to the NBA holds little evidence to support that. Jereme Richmond was supposed to be the next prodigy. Did not work out. Leonard was a physical specimen, but it is not that he had a great freshman season. It took Cook 4 years to make it to the NBA.
I see people mention Tilmon as a guaranteed NBA instant player, no matter where he goes. I believe I have seen Tilmon play more times than the vast majority of posters on this board, and I really like him. But I do not think Tilmon is an instant one-and-done or even a guaranteed NBAer. Whether he goes to KU, UNC, MSU or UI.
As far as Cliff, I'd say the same thing that I said for Richmond. He was his own worst enemy, adding the lack of guidance (in the case of Cliff) from his family. It is not that if Cliff had gone to UI, he would have been a different person or model citizen. Yet, he still made it to the NBA, so Self can claim that even his failures get to the NBA.
We're a couple years removed from Cal literally using line changes. Karl Anthony Towns averaged around 20 minutes a game at UK, and one year later he's one of the top 20 players in the league.
I'm not sure there's a broad argument that exists that favors a school like Illinois vs blue bloods.
Illinidreamin
- Paris, IL.
I submit Ben Simmons for our argumentative pleasure. Chose LSU as a 5 star didn't make the tourney and is number 1 draft pick. I am of the belief that tillmon will not be a one and done simply too inconsistent as of right now and doesn't have the build yet.
This article says he could have cost himself millions by going to LSU.
http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2016/03/lsu_ben_simmons_nba_shoe_deal.html
That article is so stupid... Simmons was never in the Durant/Lebron club. He is a very good player but he is not the dominant force those two are. Being compared to Wiggins, Wall, etc is where he should have been all along. He lost nothing by going to LSU and being the number 1 or 2 pick. The projections in that article were flawed when whomever came up with them.
the better question is whether Cliff took a pay cut....
The hype was insane. He wasn't that caliber of player but his name was being tossed around as if he was. It's possible that he would have been able to secure such a contract like that if LSU would have made it to the tournament and made some noise. He probably didn't lose anything as far as his draft position, although a slide to #2 probably wouldn't have happened if he would have played on a team where he wasn't forced to be the star. Hell, he probably would have secured the top pick if he got injured and sat out the whole season.. he was exposed at LSU though, enough to possibly slide to #2. That's not much, but the bad publicity surely cost him $ that he'd get in endorsements. Oh well.. he'll be just fine.
Wrong. He was in the lebron club when being talked about. And he had cost himself millions by his carelessness, and idgaf attitude. He went from a sure fire number 1 pick to a maybe number 1.
I will say Ingram got a lot better too, but with Simmons skill set; he should be the unanimous number 1, but he's not.
I would put Wiggins above Durant in terms of pre-college reputation and hype. And no one in the last generation is on Lebron's level. Lebron was the biggest high school talent since at least Kareem Abdul Jabbar. We probably won't see another one like him for many years yet.
Not really...basically says he could have been a one of a kind shoe deal in the LeBron James/ Kevin Durant level & falls back to Andrew Wiggin/John wall level deal, also says he had leadership questions, academic questions, missing tournament... doesn't really mean that LSU was the problem, just that he didn't have a the huge year to put him on the level of a Lebron/Durant.
There is a world of difference between Ben Simmons and Tilmon as NBA Draft prospects. This is again a failure of seeing 5 stars and assuming that it's all the same thing.
The top 2-3 guys (sometimes more, sometimes less depending on the class) are a different thing from everyone else. And then there's another cutoff around 10-12, and then another around 40 or so. This is just based historically on the pro production of recruits at those levels, that graph is not a straight line, it has distinct tiers. Tilmon is in that third group.
You know who keeps turning guys like that into lottery picks? Bill Self. Cole Aldrich, the Morris twins, Thomas Robinson, Ben McLemore, Brandon Rush, you could go on and on.
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Simmons is better than Ingram the numbers don't even match up , fan bases and the media put pressure on that kid all he wanted to do was ball but then here comes all these Ppl saying he was a failure because he didn't make the tournament , he was disqualified from being player of the year put negative light on him , but still put up some impressive stats , and as far as lebron we will never know because he didn't go to college to be judged like Simmons they both didn't have a jump shot but did everything else well. Over all Simmons is still the number one pick and if he doesn't go number one he is the next teams treasure.
I wasn't saying Ingram is the better player. I was stating he helped his cause with a good showing, and improvement over the year.
You could say Simmons had better numbers because he was relied on more.
Not only that, but there is no much evidence to support the assertion that if you are a McD AA, a top player, Illinois is a guaranteed path to the NBA or the shortest path to a successful NBA career. Some posters try to make the assertion that we can make a better pitch to top recruits of "come to Illinois, you will get the minutes, become a star, and get high in the draft faster than in the blue bloods." There is not much historical evidence to support that assertion.
Marcus Liberty was considered by many the top recruit in the entire college basketball. Slipped to the second round and did not have much of an NBA career. Lowell Hamilton went undrafted, never really played in the NBA. Deon Thomas went in the second round, did not have an NBA career. Richard Keene never played in the NBA, neither did Marcus Griffin. Frankie was a very late pick and just had a cup of coffee in the NBA, Dee Brown in the second round and a cup of coffee as well. Richmond went nowhere. You look at the last 25 years, and the best example of top recruit, McD AA level out of HS is Brian Cook. And yet, it took Brian 4 years to reach the NBA, so far from the shortest path.
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Jamal Murray is the best player in this draft, there, I said it.
midastouch11
- New York, New York
More dry? Death Valley in August, or the Dustin Ford Canadian Pipeline?
Dustin Ford Canadian Pipeline is extremely well-tapped and flowing. It just is connected to Oregon, UK, KU, and FSU.
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
In the context of this conversation I would respond with, what recruits has Groce turned into NBA players making the minimum? If that were Self's pitch, it is still better than what we've got right now.
Well JG's first recruiting class will be seniors this season. So you can't really make this argument right now, IMO. After, next year, Groce will put his first recruit in the NBA from his very first recruiting class.
URH Snyder 490
Orange Crush '89
- Northern Illinois
I'm with you, love that guy :thumb:
Deleted member 533939
D
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Hill is not an NBA player, IMO.
I was talking about Mav, duh.
No, I can see why people don't think Hill is but I have a feeling he'll remove all doubt this upcoming season.
I was talking about Mav, duh.
No, I can see why people don't think Hill is but I have a feeling he'll remove all doubt this upcoming season.
He would have to start shooting well over 40% from 3 to even have a shot. His athleticism is what hurts him the most, not his ability to score.
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