Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July-August 2016)
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Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
With 13 rides, you can't take a PG every year.
IllinoisFan733
- Chicago
Tough to expect any team with injuries to their projected starting Center, Power Forward, and Point Guard to make the tournament. The back-ups become the starters, bench players become the new subs, and freshman are forced to play earlier than they might be ready for.
One positive from last year is that those freshman showed a lot of progress as the season went on due to the competition level. I'm expecting big jumps from the entire sophomore class (including LB and MF.)
Yea I would aim for 3 PGs every 4 years.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
I agree. It's just too important to have a competent PG (as has been painfully reinforced over the last few years).
Why? Many of the combo guards can play the 2 or 3. Then a lot of forwards can play 3-4, and maybe 5 if they go small. Having a lot of ball handlers is never a bad thing; just gotta make sure they can shoot/score.
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On top of the injuries to Abrams, Black, and Thorne, we also expected Darius Paul to be a part of the rotation (I even recall plenty of speculation that he might start). In an alternate universe, a healthy 2015-16 team with Abrams, Nunn, Hill, Black, and Thorne starting and Paul, JCL, Morgan/Finke, and Tate rounding out the rotation might have won quite a few games.
This is a little different than Brunson vs Evans. Scruggs is a guy you make room for if he wants to come, even if we already have Frazier.
IlliniOX08
- Bucktown, Chicago
First things first. I like Finke, but right now, Goodwin, Frazier/Scruggs, and another PF/C should be the priorities.
What you really can't do is only successfully recruit 2 pgs over the course 9 years.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
To me Sergio suffered somewhat because of his 4-state championship pedigree. I expected a 5-tool world beater when he arrived, and I was still waiting four years later. He was a classic "good at everything, not great at anything" guy, aside from perhaps "leadership" which is really hard to measure and understand through the TV. From a tangibles perspective, Goodwin seems quicker and more agile, while Sergio was incredibly strong. Sergio did have fantastic hands, especially on the patented "up-slap" steal move against ball handlers.
IlliniOX08
- Bucktown, Chicago
Don't disagree entirely however there is always a "but". Injuries are unfortunate BUT the depth of this team should have been better developed. Losing players due to team rules violations etc.. is a symptom of taking chances on the wrong players and depth should have been developed to offset those issues.
Now, last year the rash of injuries was insane so I give a little bit of a pass there. The depth of the team is not what it should be - particularly at PG and PF/C. The team rules violations are on Groce, that cannot be an excuse for lack of success.
Groce didn't deserve to lose his job yet. We need to let him see this process through. But the simple fact is, the more seasons the program isn't in the NCAA the less relevant it becomes.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
From mixtape viewing only (I know, I know), I'm more impressed with Mayan Kiir than Theo John. But I see Kiir is a 3-star guy while John is a 4-star. What does Theo John have over Kiir at this point?
riffraff
- Peoria
What is the ideal mix in an average recruiting class? With 13 scholarships that's 4 per year, if you lose 1 to early exit every year 3 out of 4 years on average. So does that mean a PG and C every two years so there is always an upper classman and an understudy, while leaving room for plenty of less specialized and more flexibke forwards and guards? Or do you take a PG and C two of three years since they might be the ones you lose?
The physique of a grown a$$ man pretty much. A lot of athleticism. Potential is definitely there, he's just super raw offensively. As much as I'd love to see what Fletcher could do with that kind of build, I won't be upset if he goes elsewhere.
Mike
C-U Townie
Absolutely. And if you balance classes correct, you take at least one true big man every year also.
As we all know it doesn't always work out that way
Point guards then centers are the 2 most important positions right? IMO too many good point guards and centers would be a really nice problem to have. Can imagine a dominate 5 playing with four good 1's could be really sweet!
89illinigrad
- Chicago
When it comes to recruiting, I think you are starting to see the fruits of all the hard labor that Groce has put in over the years. I think Whitman saw that too, when he gave Groce the vote of confidence.
When you have a program that is struggling, its hard to attract top recruits, unless you are one of the first to be in on them and have a longstanding relationship with them. Weber was able to do that with Richmond and now Groce has done the same with Tilmon.
Walker was on Tilmon since 8th grade, long before the blue bloods came calling and that was very important to Tilmon. It may not work for all recruits, but it just takes one BIG one to get the ball rolling.
If we get Goodwin, Frazier and another BIG, whoever it might be, I would say the 2017 recruiting class would be a raging success. Top that with a tourney bid next spring and Groce should be handed a 6-year extension.
I've said it before, but I likened Groce's situation to when Henson was first hired. It took Henson some time to build his recruiting inroads, but once he did and the pipeline started flowing, it was something special. Not only were we consistently getting McD's AA, but we were getting a lot of the top Chicago talent as well.
I can see the same thing happening for Groce. It may take a little longer to get Chicago on board (i.e. we have to win and keep bringing in talent for a couple more years), but I see a bright future ahead.
When you have a program that is struggling, its hard to attract top recruits, unless you are one of the first to be in on them and have a longstanding relationship with them. Weber was able to do that with Richmond and now Groce has done the same with Tilmon.
Walker was on Tilmon since 8th grade, long before the blue bloods came calling and that was very important to Tilmon. It may not work for all recruits, but it just takes one BIG one to get the ball rolling.
If we get Goodwin, Frazier and another BIG, whoever it might be, I would say the 2017 recruiting class would be a raging success. Top that with a tourney bid next spring and Groce should be handed a 6-year extension.
I've said it before, but I likened Groce's situation to when Henson was first hired. It took Henson some time to build his recruiting inroads, but once he did and the pipeline started flowing, it was something special. Not only were we consistently getting McD's AA, but we were getting a lot of the top Chicago talent as well.
I can see the same thing happening for Groce. It may take a little longer to get Chicago on board (i.e. we have to win and keep bringing in talent for a couple more years), but I see a bright future ahead.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
I don't think you can credit the La Lu connection for Tilmon. It was more Walker and his St. Louis connections.
However (and this is just speculation), when ESL was on strike and Tilmon didn't want his season to be in jeopardy, it may have helped that our staff had connections with La Lu when he transferred there.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
Zilch, other than physique. Kiir is a far, far better basketball player (albeit limited viewing in the clips I've seen). Would much rather have Kiir.
Speaking of Kiir, NCState just offered him. Kiir is legit based on Peach Jam and NBPA Top 100 feedback.
Tilmon if not completely, 99% from stl connections.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Well that was my impression, too. It may be just the editing, but it seemed like most of John's baskets were fairly uncontested dunks. In one he had several hooks and a few jumpers. But Kiir looked far more active and athletic, and was much more aggressive. Maybe that is a nice way of saying "out of control", but he looked like he'd have HUGE upside, and can seriously get out and run the floor. Finally, John's latest AAU results weren't impressive. Then again, I haven't seen any results for Kiir, so...
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