2 more for curiousity, still think I like Evans numbers the best
Glynn Watson Jr. 34 24.3 8.6 1.9 2.4 1.2 0.1 1.0 .389 .792 .267
Quentin Snider 31 27.8 9.4 2.3 3.5 0.8 0.0 1.3 .402 .750 .404
Illini Basketball 2016-2017
- Status
2 more for curiousity, still think I like Evans numbers the best
Glynn Watson Jr. 34 24.3 8.6 1.9 2.4 1.2 0.1 1.0 .389 .792 .267
Quentin Snider 31 27.8 9.4 2.3 3.5 0.8 0.0 1.3 .402 .750 .404
I have not seen the magazine and basis for their rankings but I would imagine that their rankings are more ranking PGs for 2016-17 season based on overall expectations/potential and less on last year's numbers.
My argument is also more on 2016-17 expectations as well, not so much based on last year's numbers, I truly expect Brunson will end up as one of the best PGs in college basketball this year, if not the best.
just as unathletic as I expected him to be at the college level..eminently guardable
Nor have I, but this stuff is almost always more than a fair bit subjective , no matter how much you try to set up the evaluation criteria. Personally, I'd bet on Evans just looking at the numbers, but IMO Evans had a much better opportunity/weaker team that needed more from him and let him do more. With Arcidianco moving on Brunson will have a great opportunity to step up this year... so we shall see, but I wouldn't bet against either on having a very good season.
Epsilon
M tipping over
- Pdx
Gonna throw a question out there...
One of the things I have been thinking about is player buy in, to what coach has been trying to do with team on offense / defense. When the BP3 team made it to the tourney and lost to Miami, coach gave a heartfelt speech about the team buying in. And the next couple of years (outside of being plagued by injuries), it seemed that there was a bit of smoke around certain players not getting along or maybe not fully buying into the system. Not sure how many folks have thought much about this, but does anyone else feel like this was an issue the last couple of years, and do you think this year will be any different / better from a team buy-in standpoint?
One of the things I have been thinking about is player buy in, to what coach has been trying to do with team on offense / defense. When the BP3 team made it to the tourney and lost to Miami, coach gave a heartfelt speech about the team buying in. And the next couple of years (outside of being plagued by injuries), it seemed that there was a bit of smoke around certain players not getting along or maybe not fully buying into the system. Not sure how many folks have thought much about this, but does anyone else feel like this was an issue the last couple of years, and do you think this year will be any different / better from a team buy-in standpoint?
Can't say I'm a credible source, but I got the impression those chemistry issues/buy in problems were mostly rumors started here out of frustration. I remember there were some posters saying there was some divide between upper/lowerclassmen. Could there be some truth to that? Sure. My guess would be if you asked any of the players about that, they'd say this wasn't an issue. Who knows. As far as the current team goes -- you get the feeling team chemistry is stronger than years past w/ the good vibes that have been blowing our way recently. We'll see.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
"Buy-in," an important intangible, is always easier when you achieve success. Chicken and egg thing.
DReq
Always Illini
- Central Illinois
It also helps if you have enough depth to bench anyone who doesn't demonstrate their dedication to the system. That hasn't been available to JG until hopefully now.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
They were definitely basing it on this year, with one comment that the writer really expecting Evans to put up points. No specific comments about Brunson other than now running the show. Monte Morris, I recall, was number 1. Can't remember the others of the top of my head.
I'm really interested in seeing how Evans fits into Brad Underwood's system. It is very friendly if you have a dynamic point guard. If he picks it up and buys in, I think he could explode.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
Really looking forward to your report.
Me too! Thanks in advance Combes
Hot dog!! Can't wait to read some of your impressions!
I don't remember these open scrimmages happening the past couple years. Is there a reason for doing them now? Maybe to build fan excitement?
https://mobile.twitter.com/deebrown11/status/776517764118970368/video/1
Road to recovery. The Fletcher effect is already showing with TJL, he has definitely put on some size
Road to recovery. The Fletcher effect is already showing with TJL, he has definitely put on some size
That's encouraging, but I refuse to make much of it. I really think it's a mistake to think we'll be plus in the BIG at the PG position this year.
Love those silky handles, btw. Also like to see him with more mass, as I think it helps a lot of guards with confidence, their shot, and their defense.
As far as the buy-in questions a few posts back, I think that's on coach. Groce is known as a player's coach, which I think is part of what's going on, but I'm not in a position to really have an informed decision on that. Besides, even if I did, every team is different in composition and continuity. Issues can be more of a factor with player coach personalities, though. If you get guys who know how to take care of business, they tend to shine and the team comes together. If you get guys that maybe have different opinions about roles, what their game should be, or just don't really understand reads, roles, or assignments, it's hard to get everyone on the same page. Sometimes even the coach can struggle to figure out a game plan that can work well with what he has, let alone getting it executed.
There are so many subtle things that make a team great. Just as a simple example, I was very impressed with Egwu on defense. There were some opinions blaming him at times, but I think those were sorely misplaced. Yes he had weaknesses, but man was he good at covering the sins of other players when the middle was attacked. He seemed to know when the defense was likely to break down, make the hedge, and still be able to contest the play. I know Groce spoke highly of him, and to me that's another subtle indication of 'buy-in' --a coachable player finding his assignment and excelling in it. Offense was a whole 'nother thing for him, of course. With the great teams I've watched (and I'm not talking just Illini teams, although there have been some) as a fan, you can see the anticipation of the players and how it translates to being just that little bit better than their opponent.
You look at all the little things players have to do on any given play that help the team, and those are the things that add up over a game and season to make a team good or great. I'm not talking about individual hustle or highlight reel plays, I'm talking just about the little things that in combination make the team succeed. I don't feel like I've seen much of that, even accounting for the personnel issues, and I put that mostly on Groce. Hopefully it comes together this season, but until I see that on the court, I'm thinking we're an average BIG team. We definitely have some good players, but PG is weak, and the system as it's recently been executed hasn't inspired any faith.
I'm excited for season, but my analysis is keeping my forecast in check.
That's all? Need more. When you attend I expect a min of 2000 words.
Hoop city: need details, man! Details
I was there. Sitting in a chair near the window. More later.
This is a good post, and the little things do add up, but the little things don't mean much if you simply don't have the talent and depth to compete.
But people have been arguing about that all offseason. I think most of us can agree that this season we do have the talent. If we have good coaching and can do the little things, it will show.
And I don't think anyone expects us to have plus PG play this year. All we need is competent PG play to be successful.
I must have missed that.
Damn, he used his yearly made three in a scrimmage?
I am dying for a report!
Today's scrimmage was supposed to start at 11, I thought, but it did not start until about 40 minutes later. Crowd of maybe 20-25 fans watching. I did not think the intensity level of the scrimmage was as high as last week, but that is understandable considering who was there last week and how many fans showed up.
JCL was on the sideline with his right hand wrapped. Lucas shot around and did some dribbling but did not participate in the scrimmage. Morgan and Jordan were nowhere to be seen at the beginning. Morgan made an appearance late in the scrimmage but did not play. I never did see Jordan. Ray Rice was on hand and scrimmaged with the team.
As for the current squad:
Hill--he did not appear to be as involved this week as he was last week, but he scored whenever he wanted to again. There is no one on the team who can check him. Nichols comes the closest. He toyed with the recruit a couple of times in a friendly way. I don't know that Kijab had ever seen that drive and then quick step back that Hill is so good at.
Nichols--unless I am way off, Kipper will play and play a lot when he gets back. He again showed a jumper to three, drives in the lane and good defense. He ended the scrimmage with a spectacular drive where he changed his shot in midair and finished at the rim. I am trying to not get too excited about him. He is still probably a year away from being a starter, but I like his game better than the other wings other than Hill. And, of course, no JCL playing.
Black--was probably better today than last week. He rebounded about the same but was better offensively today. Hit a few fifteen footers and finished at the rim. He tapped a number of loose balls out to teammates, too. I like what I am seeing. Seems more mature.
Abrams--definitely a leader on the court. He continues to be better than I thought at this stage. I am not sure that he will ever be a plus shooter, but he did stick a couple of jumpers that could keep the defense honest. He did have a couple of bad misses like we have seen before. He threw the ball away a couple of times trying to make the plus pass, but it was a Saturday morning scrimmage and may not have been indicative of what he will do with the lights on.
Finke--the man with the Dirk haircut. lol. Finke shows a very quick release on his jumper these days. Shoots it with confidence, too. Probably made half his shots today.
Williams--like last week, he did little early but finished strongly with a three, a pull up jumper and another midrange jumper. Wish he would play like that all the time, but as we know, that is his history. Hope the light comes on. It is not that he doesn't play hard early, it's just that he doesn't look for his shot.
Thorne--he scored deep with both hands when he got the ball. He didn't always get the ball, though. I think he got a little miffed with the recruit in one game with the game on the line. He was posted deep, and Kijab pumped a hero shot and missed. Thorne didn't say anything to the kid but he muttered some choice words as he left the court.
Tate--I didn't notice Tate that much today. He had a couple of nice passes, one an alley oop to Nichols, but he was pretty quiet. Scored on a jumper in the lane once.
Austin and three other walkons also played. The kid from Champaign probably played the best but had a sprained ankle late. He continued to play that game but limped off afterwards. He is a lefty, and he made 2-3 midrange jumpers.
I am not sure what my impression of the team is right now. It is hard to judge the total makeup of the squad with JCL, Morgan, Lucas and, today, Jordan not playing. Hill, Nichols, Thorne, Abrams, Black and Finke have all played consistently well in the two scrimmages I have watched.
JCL was on the sideline with his right hand wrapped. Lucas shot around and did some dribbling but did not participate in the scrimmage. Morgan and Jordan were nowhere to be seen at the beginning. Morgan made an appearance late in the scrimmage but did not play. I never did see Jordan. Ray Rice was on hand and scrimmaged with the team.
As for the current squad:
Hill--he did not appear to be as involved this week as he was last week, but he scored whenever he wanted to again. There is no one on the team who can check him. Nichols comes the closest. He toyed with the recruit a couple of times in a friendly way. I don't know that Kijab had ever seen that drive and then quick step back that Hill is so good at.
Nichols--unless I am way off, Kipper will play and play a lot when he gets back. He again showed a jumper to three, drives in the lane and good defense. He ended the scrimmage with a spectacular drive where he changed his shot in midair and finished at the rim. I am trying to not get too excited about him. He is still probably a year away from being a starter, but I like his game better than the other wings other than Hill. And, of course, no JCL playing.
Black--was probably better today than last week. He rebounded about the same but was better offensively today. Hit a few fifteen footers and finished at the rim. He tapped a number of loose balls out to teammates, too. I like what I am seeing. Seems more mature.
Abrams--definitely a leader on the court. He continues to be better than I thought at this stage. I am not sure that he will ever be a plus shooter, but he did stick a couple of jumpers that could keep the defense honest. He did have a couple of bad misses like we have seen before. He threw the ball away a couple of times trying to make the plus pass, but it was a Saturday morning scrimmage and may not have been indicative of what he will do with the lights on.
Finke--the man with the Dirk haircut. lol. Finke shows a very quick release on his jumper these days. Shoots it with confidence, too. Probably made half his shots today.
Williams--like last week, he did little early but finished strongly with a three, a pull up jumper and another midrange jumper. Wish he would play like that all the time, but as we know, that is his history. Hope the light comes on. It is not that he doesn't play hard early, it's just that he doesn't look for his shot.
Thorne--he scored deep with both hands when he got the ball. He didn't always get the ball, though. I think he got a little miffed with the recruit in one game with the game on the line. He was posted deep, and Kijab pumped a hero shot and missed. Thorne didn't say anything to the kid but he muttered some choice words as he left the court.
Tate--I didn't notice Tate that much today. He had a couple of nice passes, one an alley oop to Nichols, but he was pretty quiet. Scored on a jumper in the lane once.
Austin and three other walkons also played. The kid from Champaign probably played the best but had a sprained ankle late. He continued to play that game but limped off afterwards. He is a lefty, and he made 2-3 midrange jumpers.
I am not sure what my impression of the team is right now. It is hard to judge the total makeup of the squad with JCL, Morgan, Lucas and, today, Jordan not playing. Hill, Nichols, Thorne, Abrams, Black and Finke have all played consistently well in the two scrimmages I have watched.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status