Illinois 88, NC State 74 POSTGAME

[frozenrope9190]

Sorry, but NC State isn't good at all.

I don't know if 'isn't good at all' is completely accurate. CBS had them ranked 32nd at the start of the season, where Illinois was 65th. Even with their injuries, to move from 32nd to bad with only 1 loss coming into the game is completely fair. They might not be cream of the crop, but they're better than several teams in the ACC (Wake, Clemson, VT, GT). Maybe the equivalent of an Iowa in the B10?

 

[ChiefIllini]

I'm glad for the win tonight. It cools Groce's seat ever so slightly. He needs to basically win out the non-con to get back on track though. This season is good either way for me. My desire for Groce to succeed is there so if we win, AWESOME. However, if he doesn't and is fired, it will be on to a new adventure.

I'll give him one more loss in the non-con. VCU and BYU are tough, gotta win one. I'd say we have a much better shot at BYU since VCU is clearly a better team and I dont think ive seen anything to predict our guys will be ready for Havok

Either way hes gotta win 10 conference games to have a shot at the tourney and/or 3+ wins in the B1G tournament.

 

[TCTORNADO]

It's the same idea as Hill, DJW, and AJ.

You don't hear the term "swingman" much anymore, but that's what all of them are.

Maybe Kipper is the best of the lot. I doubt we're going to find that out when he's a freshman trying to break into a crowded rotation in the middle of the season.

If I hadn't seen both of them in HS, I wouldn't feel so strongly towards KN. I realize that is 2 years ago, but DJW has not shown anything that he is even a B1G player yet KN has gotten both rave reviews from Hill and Groce. I would expect some rust on KN and take awhile to get into game shape. You just can't keep KN out of the mix considering he might be our best defender (out of a group of poor defenders overall), has versatilty, and a high motor, all things missing from the group you mentioned. We'll see.

 

[WiscIllini]

JCL has so much more upside.

But Tracy can play defense and is a leader on the court while also being able to make 3's at a pretty good clip. I think his presence on the floor is much more necessary than JCL right now. Of course, Jalen has better upside, but he's still a little one-dimensional right now.

 

[dak117]

(well, nothing really can, given that he is only getting 3min/game lately)

But Thorne and Morgan are the only guys who theoretically should be battling with DJW for PT; so you lose 2 of them, add Tilmon and Kipper, then you're back to square one.

DJ is battling with Hill, Finke, Black, and will be battling Nichols for minutes. He is not competing for minutes at center.

 

[SescIllini]

Saw most of the VCU-Princeton first half. We need to beat VCU, my impression they are not an overly athletic team. They were missing their PG, not sure he will back for our game (injury, suspension?). But they had a poor defense, allowed fastbreaks and dribble drives. They seem to lack a rim protector and are not overly big. They played a competitive game against St Johns but were down big against them in the first 5-10 minutes. Same thing with Princeton they were down 16-0 at home. If given the opportunity the Illini need to break the game open (15+lead). Something we haven't been able to do when given the chance by Winthrop and NCST. A winnable game, hope to see plenty of TJL. Once again, a match-up that would suit DJW game IMHO.

 

[ChiefIllini]

I think DJW minutes increase as the season goes on. He's obviously not a great defender and he seems to really only have the ability to make his own shots on offense.

I think he will become a Bertrand type player this year, and have a breakout year in 2017. Hes got all the physical and skill attributes you want in a wing, just gotta become a more technical and smart player.

 

[Rad]

Like Tracy's grit and competitiveness. He was a key to our win last night against NCST. I still have concerns with him being a primary ball handler. He is very hesitant to push the fast break. Lucas is already better at initiating our "offense". Obviously Malcolm and Tracy are keys to our success this season but both are not good at getting others involved and slow down our offensive flow. I feel like we will be much better (now and in future) if Lucas can progress to be our primary point guard soon.

 

[Chipatsj23h]

I am strongly against Tate and as you guys have seen on here I dont believe he should be playing much. But I do believe he will play a role come B1G play. Tejon will find some struggles at times going against the rough, hard play in the B1G and thats normal for a freshman. At those times Tate can come in and will play hard. But Tejon looks to be able to hold his own already so hopefully wont have a lot of struggles come conference play.

 

[Newman]

Sorry, but NC State isn't good at all.

They're 5-2 and have no bad losses yet and will have to really good players back. They're not bad right now but will be much better sooner than later.

 

[Calvin]

I don't know if 'isn't good at all' is completely accurate. CBS had them ranked 32nd at the start of the season, where Illinois was 65th. Even with their injuries, to move from 32nd to bad with only 1 loss coming into the game is completely fair. They might not be cream of the crop, but they're better than several teams in the ACC (Wake, Clemson, VT, GT). Maybe the equivalent of an Iowa in the B10?

They're relatively young, and were on the road, so it's possible that win looks better later in the year. I'm guessing they're not a tourney team.

 

[BananaShampoo]

Like Tracy's grit and competitiveness. He was a key to our win last night against NCST. I still have concerns with him being a primary ball handler. He is very hesitant to push the fast break. Lucas is already better at initiating our "offense". Obviously Malcolm and Tracy are keys to our success this season but both are not good at getting others involved and slow down our offensive flow. I feel like we will be much better (now and in future) if Lucas can progress to be our primary point guard soon.

I agree. I already would like to see TJL as our primary PG with a rotation of Abrams & JCL at the 2 spot. The offense just flows better with Lucas as PG and Abrams give you defense + driving ability while JCL gives you pure shooting at the 2 spot. Malcolm will obviously get the bulk of minutes at the 3, but I'd like to see more DJW when Hill is cold or needs a breather. The more Black at the 4 the better, with Finke backing up there but also getting minutes at the 5. I think Mav and Thorne should mostly split minutes at the 5 until one of them shows they are clearly better than the other.

 

[IllinoisFan733]

I'll give him one more loss in the non-con. VCU and BYU are tough, gotta win one. I'd say we have a much better shot at BYU since VCU is clearly a better team and I dont think ive seen anything to predict our guys will be ready for Havok.

I think having TJL play as the PG instead of Tate will help a lot this Saturday against VCU.

I REALLY hope we start JCL or TJL instead of Tate... need somebody who can punish the opposing team after they do break the press.

 

[7yearillini]

I know they are a man down, but before the season started almost everyone here suggested this would be our toughest nonconference game. Now we win and they are awful. I can't keep up.

 

[ChiefIllini]

They're relatively young, and were on the road, so it's possible that win looks better later in the year. I'm guessing they're not a tourney team.

I think they have a chance to catch fire and make it. The pieces are there for them.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I realize that is 2 years ago, but DJW has not shown anything that he is even a B1G player yet KN has gotten both rave reviews from Hill and Groce. I would expect some rust on KN and take awhile to get into game shape. You just can't keep KN out of the mix considering he might be our best defender

Totally disagree on DJW. He catches the eye every time he's out there.

And there is absolutely no way you can say a freshman who has never played a college game is our best defender. He has to go out and prove that.

If Kipper just straight beats DJW and AJ in practice and eats their minutes, great!

I doubt that, though.

 

[201106391]

If Ford is in charge of rotations and that has been one of our major problems is Ford more of a problem that Groce? Obviously Groce takes some blame there since he puts Ford in charge of rotations.

 

[Newman]

They're relatively young, and were on the road, so it's possible that win looks better later in the year. I'm guessing they're not a tourney team.

And missing a guy that was averaging 17 ppg, and a 7 footer that is expected to go in the first round. If we had a 5-2 record, and were missing those guys for only a couple more games, we wouldn't even be that concerned about making the tourney.

 

[Illinoy]

Totally disagree on DJW. He catches the eye every time he's out there.

And there is absolutely no way you can say a freshman who has never played a college game is our best defender. He has to go out and prove that.

If Kipper just straight beats DJW and AJ in practice and eats their minutes, great!

I doubt that, though.

ditto. I'd even go as far to say that DJW has the most pro-potential out of anyone on the roster. Leron's explosiveness has increased in the off-season which has helped him return but there's something about DJW's length and fluidity.

 

[TCTORNADO]

And missing a guy that was averaging 17 ppg, and a 7 footer that is expected to go in the first round. If we had a 5-2 record, and were missing those guys for only a couple more games, we wouldn't even be that concerned about making the tourney.

ACC coaches had them as pre-season #6 in the conference. If that's where they end up, they dance.

 

[Obelix]

It's the same idea as Hill, DJW, and AJ.

You don't hear the term "swingman" much anymore, but that's what all of them are.

Maybe Kipper is the best of the lot. I doubt we're going to find that out when he's a freshman trying to break into a crowded rotation in the middle of the season.

What label you put (e.g., swingman, wing) is not as relevant as the performance and skills of a player. That would be the same as saying that you did not need a PG in previous years because you had Tate and Starks who were older and more experienced.

Same idea as Hill, DJW, and AJ? There is a huge difference in performance/level between Hill and DJW/AJ, Actually the competition at 3 is not that great, given that DJW and AJ have not established themselves yet. We really do not have a reliable option at 3, other than Hill, and Kipper has a golden opportunity to beat DJW and AJ in the rotation, if he is good enough. It is not that he is a sure thing, I have never seen him (neither have you I believe), but the bar is not that high.

AJ has not taken advantage of opportunities yet, even as a starter earlier in the season, while DJW has shown flashes of potential but has never shown the consistency in his career (even at HS). Furthermore, DJW seems to not be getting the opportunities for whatever reason.

 

[TCTORNADO]

It's interesting to see where we are after the proverbial "freshman" year for the 2015 recruiting class of Paul, JCL, DJW, and Jordan. That class was 2nd in the B!G.

 

[Obelix]

ditto. I'd even go as far to say that DJW has the most pro-potential out of anyone on the roster.

You could have said that since freshman year in HS, and I saw DJW extensively during his HS/AAU years. You hope it would have translated into performance/results by now, but it has not.

 

[RockfordIllini]

I know we gave up 74 and they shot over 50%, but I feel like our defense was much improved. Looked like NC St hit a lot of contested shots, but the good news is, we were actually contesting them. Thought help defense in the paint was much better than it has been. If we can continue to improve on D I am optimistic.

Anyone else see this? Am I losing my mind?

 

[Second and Chalmers]

What label you put (e.g., swingman, wing) is not as relevant as the performance and skills of a player. That would be the same as saying that you did not need a PG in previous years because you had Tate and Starks who were older and more experienced.

Same idea as Hill, DJW, and AJ? There is a huge difference in performance/level between Hill and DJW/AJ, Actually the competition at 3 is not that great, given that DJW and AJ have not established themselves yet. We really do not have a reliable option at 3, other than Hill, and Kipper has a golden opportunity to beat DJW and AJ in the rotation, if he is good enough. It is not that he is a sure thing, I have never seen him (neither have you I believe), but the bar is not that high.

AJ has not taken advantage of opportunities yet, even as a starter earlier in the season, while DJW has shown flashes of potential but has never shown the consistency in his career (even at HS). Furthermore, DJW seems to not be getting the opportunities for whatever reason.

We don't really disagree.

I just think it's a heck of a mountain to climb for a kid who has never seen a college floor, when his competition is in midseason form.