2017 Coaching Carousel

[gibb52]

It's year 5, we shouldn't be getting dominated in those games still

We should be better than we are in year 5 of JG. You and I and a lot of others agree on that.

In the context of this season winning at IU wasn't built into the Tourney recipe so nothing to get too upset about was my point.

Mich/Mland OTOH are huge.

 

[coltjames03]

Everyone who wants Martin apparently want to go through all this again in a few years. The guy isn't a great coach at all. Definitely not a guy who is going to change the program around. Miller is a definite if he would come but if it came down to Groce and keeping this class coming up or Martin we'll give me Groce

 

[mattcoldagelli]

if it came down to Groce and keeping this class coming up or Martin we'll give me Groce

A truly crazy statement.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

I'd disagree, we don't have many chances at quality wins in conference, and after losing to WVU and FSU, we established a need for wins against the top of the conference (especially with how bad the B10 is this year). I know folks have been mocking us in their last 4 and right on the edge, but other squads will accumulate good wins in conference, we have a VERY limited # of chances what with playing IU/Pur/Wisc only once each

I think we can add our game against MN as another opportunity.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

I'm not sure MN really qualifies as a quality win, if MN counts then we have MSU too, but I don't really count MN as being outside of that big blob of B10 teams that are all around the same level (OSU UM MSU NW NU MN IL IOWA MD)

That's fine. I've seen enough from them that I'm sold. They are #5 RPI, #32 Kenpom, beat Purdue and NW on the road. And they are getting it done with defense. The only real weak spot I see for them is depth, only playing 7 guys.

I think MSU will be there, too, despite their stumble today.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Getting excited about JG's future after a loss at Indiana doesn't seem logical to me.

We have 2 at home coming up that will be much more barometer worthy. JMO.

Yeah, we don't have the losses that would cost us a tourney berth yet. It's gonna be a different deal if we're sitting here having lost to Penn State.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Yeah, we don't have the losses that would cost us a tourney berth yet. It's gonna be a different deal if we're sitting here having lost to Penn State.

I'll go ahead and get a little animated about the fact that we are so far into the toilet that we can have a game like that and people respond with "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ didn't expect us to be competitive anyway."

 

[radiodj]

I'll go ahead and get a little animated about the fact that we are so far into the toilet that we can have a game like that and people respond with "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ didn't expect us to be competitive anyway."

+1 I know the end of Weber's tenure is what nobody was happy with. But at least he occasionally won games like this. Groce has taken this program down several notches than where it was when he got the job.

 

[MadSeason]

I'll go ahead and get a little animated about the fact that we are so far into the toilet that we can have a game like that and people respond with "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ didn't expect us to be competitive anyway."

Truly amazing. 10 minutes in and the game is comically out of reach.

Some sentiment is well we had this as a loss anyway with seemingly no thought that this is a harbinger of bad things to come. Including at Home

 

[Kingo24]

I'll go ahead and get a little animated about the fact that we are so far into the toilet that we can have a game like that and people respond with "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ didn't expect us to be competitive anyway."

The sad part, personally speaking, is I don't have much optimism in this changing any time soon, even with a potential new coach. The pile is high and the shovels are few.

 

[Kingo24]

I mean, if you define next year as soon, sure, but basketball rebuilds are not long ordeals with a good coach. Plus, we're just asking to look competitive, we don't even have to win for it to be an improvement from right now.

As I said, this is my personal pessimism on the topic. In theory the right coach could turn the ship around in short order. Despite confidence in JW, I'm pessimistic we can or will get that person. After all, we were in this same place not quite 5 years ago.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I'll go ahead and get a little animated about the fact that we are so far into the toilet that we can have a game like that and people respond with "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ didn't expect us to be competitive anyway."

Oh I expected a better performance, but I guess my hostility toward what I'm seeing is expressed as apathy more than anger.

What I really want (besides winning of course) is just a sense that there's a plan for the future and we're headed in a coherent direction. I'm sick of coaching search threads. Not knowing the resume of every mid-major coach in football this year was a nice change.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

As I said, this is my personal pessimism on the topic. In theory the right coach could turn the ship around in short order. Despite confidence in JW, I'm pessimistic we can or will get that person. After all, we were in this same place not quite 5 years ago.

Well, I now think that there's a pretty good chance that we might actually have the worst coach in the conference (I'm not even attempting to be provocative or hyperbolic here - someone make the argument for another contender). When you view it through that lens, most of the hires we could feasibly make would lead to pretty quick improvement.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I wouldn't trade Groce for Baby Pitino. But yeah he's probably the only one and that's pretty sad.

 

[radiodj]

I wouldn't trade Groce for Baby Pitino. But yeah he's probably the only one and that's pretty sad.

Unless you're talking about the problems he's had keeping his players out of trouble, it might be a tad early to make a definitive statement on Pitino. He's halfway through his 4th year and he's over-performed one year, crapped the bed in the second. Jury may still be out on him.

 

[GortTheRobot]

Well, I now think that there's a pretty good chance that we might actually have the worst coach in the conference (I'm not even attempting to be provocative or hyperbolic here - someone make the argument for another contender). When you view it through that lens, most of the hires we could feasibly make would lead to pretty quick improvement.

I don't think this is hyperbole either. I only hope that when the times comes, we end up with someone that has more than one magic run in the tourney on his resume.

 

[MadSeason]

I don't think this is hyperbole either. I only hope that when the times comes, we end up with someone that has more than one magic run in the tourney on his resume.

Mike Thomas struggled a bit hiring coaches here. Not often you can say that you hired the worst coach in Big 10 in BOTH revenue sports.

 

[MadSeason]

It's honestly pretty surprising to me, because he made some great hires in the DIA, and did quite a few other things well, but the coaching hires were quite bad

In fairness to Thomas I don't think anyone expected Groce to struggle this much. Coached in Big 10, known as a good recruiter in a talent rich state and had run a decent mid-major with an NCAA run.

Beckman? That should have been clear from the first meeting

 

[radiodj]

In fairness to Thomas I don't think anyone expected Groce to struggle this much. Coached in Big 10, known as a good recruiter in a talent rich state and had run a decent mid-major with an NCAA run.

Beckman? That should have been clear from the first meeting

Hindsight is 20/20, but if you look at their respective resumes, Beckman had the better one. He had turned around a Toledo team, improving from year to year. Whereas Groce had run on the coattails of a successful Ohio team before he got there, underperformed with them, then got hot in the NCAA's.

 

[MadSeason]

Hindsight is 20/20, but if you look at their respective resumes, Beckman had the better one. He had turned around a Toledo team, improving from year to year. Whereas Groce had run on the coattails of a successful Ohio team before he got there, underperformed with them, then got hot in the NCAA's.

On paper sure, but theres no way you could spend 5 minutes with Beckman and not understand immediately that he's a closet case.

 

[Jkat00]

It's honestly pretty surprising to me, because he made some great hires in the DIA, and did quite a few other things well, but the coaching hires were quite bad

Are you talking about the hires he made at Cincinnati or the hires he made within the DIA at Illinois?

 

[Jkat00]

Well, both, he brought some folks from Cincinnati to Illinois

He made some great hires at Cincinnati.. His DIA hires at lllinois were an epic disaster. He hired nobody with Illinois connections or ties... except for Dee Brown in his last year. 2 of his biggest hires were Mike Waddell and Jason Lener.

Waddell is famously known for screwing up athletics at Towson University and bolting for a lesser position at Arkansas.

http://deadspin.com/5989646/towson-...-baseball-and-soccer-were-cut-from-the-budget

http://www.wbal.com/article/98199/2...ye-For-Towson-University-Its-Athletic-Program


http://fightingillini.com/staff.aspx?staff=101


Jason Lener was the right hand man for Mike Thomas. Thomas needed some help with the Football and Basketball coaching searches. Lener was the guy. A quote from Jason in the Newsgazette article. "I had the opportunity to work with Parker Executives Search for the men's search; we handled the women's one internally. I just coordinated both of those and making sure we were processing along for both and making sure we got the right people." Job well done!

Lener was basically in charge of Football and Basketball operations so Mike Thomas could focus on one of the only things he did well.. fundraising. Thomas + Lener + Parker research firm... and you wonder why he ended up with who we got. Lener is actually still employed in the DIA, but his role has been reduced significantly.

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...sketball/2012-03-30/just-who-jason-lener.html


http://www.fightingillini.com/staff.aspx?staff=2

 

[Jkat00]

Think we're getting off topic here, we can continue this via PM :thumb:

Yes sorry just venting. Thomas put Illinois in a huge hole. Those articles about Waddell and Lener are something all Illini fans should see so please read them. And Dan please don't delete. Thankfully we have Josh Whitman who I have 100% confidence in to get this thing fixed. Go Illini!

 

[FatGreg]

Re: Smith, I think it may be even more crucial to land him considering the potential for Groce's dismissal. If Groce goes, I think there's a better than 50% chance that Frazier decommits. A pledge from Smith (added to Da'Monte and Te'Jon) still leaves us in good shape at PG in the event that we lose Frazier. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it would be nice to have some extra security!

Obviously, Smith could also walk if Groce is let go, but since he grew up in-state as an Illini fan I'd bet on him coming either way.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

On paper sure, but theres no way you could spend 5 minutes with Beckman and not understand immediately that he's a closet case.

Very true, but by the same token you can't spend 5 minutes with Groce without thinking he's Vince Lombardi.