Probably true. That does not explain Capel recruiting the VCU team that would later blow up under Anthony Grant, including future NBA player Eric Maynor, nor Willie Warren, Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin as other McDAA's Capel brought to Oklahoma, nor Duke becoming a one-and-done factory since he got there.
This is a little bit of fun with selected endpoints, but from 2008-2011, Duke only signed two recruits in the top 13 of the RSCI: Austin Rivers and Kyrie Irving. The team at the end of that four-year recruiting run was the one who lost to Lehigh in the first round. That was Capel's first year back as an assistant.
In the five years since, Duke has landed ten top 13 recruits: Rasheed Suliamon, Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow, Brandon Ingram, Derryck Thorton, Harry Giles, Jayson Tatum and Marques Bolden.
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The blemish on his record is that year that followed Blake Griffin leaving OU. That team still had a ton of talent, Willie Warren was the preseason Big 12 player of the year, they were ranked 17th to begin the season, and it was a total disaster on and off the court. They finished with a losing record, there were widespread reports of internal discord, all of the good players transferred after the season, assistants got fired, it became a mess so fast.
What the heck happened there? Was it all Capel's fault? Would it happen again? Has he learned from it?
Thanks for taking the time on both of these :thumb:
On another note, does Cuonzo Martin's track record at Tennessee scare anyone? He was in the NIT his first two years following 6 straight NCAA Tourneys under Pearl and was headed there in his third season before he won 5 of his final 6 to sneak into a play in game. They ended up going on a run to the sweet 16 by beating a reeling Iowa in the play in game (same team we beat in Iowa City on Ekey's 3), 6 seed UMass in the first round and then 14 seed Mercer (coming off upset over Duke) before losing a tight game to 2 seed Michigan in the sweet 16.
Tennessee fans wanted him fired for the majority of the year as it looked like they were going to make the NIT (and Pearl's show cause penalty was ending), so Martin parlayed the sweet 16 to the job at Cal to avoid a hot seat the upcoming year.
I've thought about all this as well. While others added on some valid discussion points regarding the positive perception of Bruce Pearl prior to his arrival and why he may have left early, the "He's improved the win-loss record everywhere he's been" really isn't as true as it's being made out to be. He did barely squeak in to that NCAA tournament in his 3rd year at Tennessee -- had he missed that, and it was an NIT 2nd or 3rd round, what would we think of his resume? I don't find his resume at Tennessee to really be very awe-inspiring, and the bulk of his recruiting success has been at Cal thus far.
Fair points. My comments are below...
Would love Capel as an assistant, but just can't get past those last two years at OU. He clearly didn't succeed after Griffin left. As for Griffin, it sure didn't hurt Capel's pitch that Blake's older brother, Taylor, was on the Sooners.
I don't dispute Archie is a hot name, and the E8 appearance is solid, but you lost me at SLU being a solid team. First, your making the assumption that I think Illinois is a solid team, which I don't, so KenPom all you want. The point is that the A10 is not close to the quality of a P5 conference, especially since its realignment, and it makes me pause on how impressive dominating this conference really is. Is it a coincidence that Miller's run started when Temple, Xavier, and Charlotte left the A10? As for Georgia Tech, it doesn't seem like a crap job - ACC, fertile recruiting territory (Atlanta), and has high ceiling potential (Cremins era). Granted I don't think it's as good a situation as Illinois, but still comparable.
Definitely agree with this. Keeping the existing recruits should be down the list of criteria, otherwise JW would just promote Walker. It is arguable whether Capel as a head coach would recruit better than Martin, though if the criteria is beyond the 2-4 years, Capel's track record isn't so hot.
What exactly is playing fun? I've read the same things. Reminds me of when some used to say Wisconsin didn't play fun basketball. But they kept winning. Just saw Cal beat USC on the road, 73-72. Looked pretty entertaining to me. Fair enough on the MVC. If that was the only thing on his resume, then I agree, not good enough. I assume then you're not as high on Marshall as others because of how weak the MVC is?
I think the factors that would favor Archie over Cuonzo are probably Xs & Os and possibly overall program management. But I don't think they're bad with CM, otherwise I think he would have tanked at one of his stops, like Capel did. I do think Cuonzo has a higher ceiling as a recruiter at Illinois than Archie, as I think CM being from the home state, and a former B1G player would play well there.
Counter-points:
(1) There is 0% chance Capel leaves the head assistant job at Duke for an assistant job at Illinois.
(2) I wouldn't put a bunch of negative stock in the Taylor Griffin connection, this isn't a situation where Capel took a bad player to lock up a top player. Blake's brother was #126 overall and #1 in Oklahoma coming out of HS, so by no means a bad player. His brother even had an NBA stint!
(3) SLU has had a bad 3 years, but they did make the tournament more recently than us. You are right though, there's been more recent bad than good with them, I underestimated how bad some of their recent seasons were. However, the A10 is still not a horrible conference, and largely comparable to the AAC, putting them right after CBB's P6 (P12, SEC, ACC, B10, B12, BE).
(4) Georgia Tech is not easy to recruit to -- after all, they effectively offer nothing but STEM degrees, they're still Russell Athletic, and doesn't have nearly the history or facilities of most ACC programs they're competing with. There are significantly more challenges there than here.
(5) Marshall has more than 1 season at the top of the MVC -- in fact, he hasn't finished worse than 2nd since 2008-2009. Additionally, Gregg's resume is a little more than just doing well in the MVC, and includes a final four and a sweet 16. Not really a fair comparison for Cuonzo, his resume is far better IMO.
Overall, I still think Archie is my #1 (feasibility considered). I would be content with Cuonzo, but if I'm being honest, I'd be content with most changes. I do agree with your assessment/final conclusion, I think Cuonzo would be the superior recruiter, but I prefer those other two being strong in my HC candidate, so Archie remains above Cuonzo for me. I do think it's a bit unfair to say "Capel tanked, Cuonzo never has" when Cuonzo has never been at a stop for more than three years. We have yet to see him run a team with entirely his own recruits even.
