Mike Thomas did make a go of it last time around. Several big names floated around and reportedly were close to signing. It was exciting and they need to go all out. Maybe the lure of coaching in the Big Ten will entice the likes of Chris Holtmann or Greg McDermott. I agree with getting someone with coaching experience, but if a top guy doesn't want to come, then start looking at top assistants.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
Well, it kind of depends. What do you see as the problem in that story?
Because there's the pearl-clutching morality piece and the NCAA compliance piece.
If it's the former, get over it, every recruit Illinois has ever gotten got laid in some form or fashion on their visit. If it's the latter, there's no evidence and no compelling reason to believe Keatts had anything to do with it.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
How far does your Pitino Blacklist extend?
Also - the way our program has been run over the last 4-5 years is nothing to be proud of, either.
If I can't trust the AD to take the full extent of knowledge he has about a coach into consideration for a personnel decision, then I can't trust the AD at all.
Josh Whitman has done nothing to show me or anyone else that he'll be blinded by a B10 tourney run and a back door one and out in the NCAA tourney. Groce is clearly over matched and it doesn't take a basketball genius to see that.
Basketball coaches rarely get fired mid season, and almost never without some type of extenuating circumstance. I wouldn't expect that to happen.
I'm a Keatts fan myself.
Honestly I think you wrote out the exact point I was kind of trying to make. I think it's clear that Groce is overmatched and needs to be fired. I also think it's clear that a mid season firing won't and should not take place. I guess I was more curious about if the end of regular season, but before the conference tournament, is too early to fire a coach. And if for some reason Groce caught lightning in a bottle for BTT week, and maybe gets in and actually wins a game in the tourney, does Whitman still fire a tournament coach? To us hardcore fans, we realize that Groce has failed. To casual fans, they might not like the idea of having a coach fired after a tourney run.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
I doubt that the AD makes a decision based on the perceptions of the casual fan, so that doesn't seem very important to me. I would say keep the team together, give them whatever unity and spirit they have and hope for the best. When it is all over, make the best long term decision and move forward.
Preface: I found this and felt it went along with the discussion on this thread...not posting this as being my thoughts!
Illinois shouldn’t listen to fans about John Groce
Guess what? He still shouldn’t go anywhere. If Illinois loses 15 of its last 15 games, with a margin of defeat averaging 30 per outing, he still needs to return.
Blasphemy this is not. It’s reality.
For starters, you’re Illinois, not some blue-blood program which can call the reanimated corpse of John Wooden to coach the squad next season. Maybe the university can do better than him. Maybe it can’t… but it isn’t exactly the ideal time to find out — not with a MIND-BOGGLING AND INSANE recruiting class that’s coming to campus next season.
Four different four-star prospects committed, two ranked in ESPN’s top-100, culminating with Jeremiah Tilmon, who has the potential to help Illinois become a team of relevance in the Big Ten for several years to come.
http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/illinois-shouldnt-listen-to-fans-about-john-groce/
Illinois shouldn’t listen to fans about John Groce
Guess what? He still shouldn’t go anywhere. If Illinois loses 15 of its last 15 games, with a margin of defeat averaging 30 per outing, he still needs to return.
Blasphemy this is not. It’s reality.
For starters, you’re Illinois, not some blue-blood program which can call the reanimated corpse of John Wooden to coach the squad next season. Maybe the university can do better than him. Maybe it can’t… but it isn’t exactly the ideal time to find out — not with a MIND-BOGGLING AND INSANE recruiting class that’s coming to campus next season.
Four different four-star prospects committed, two ranked in ESPN’s top-100, culminating with Jeremiah Tilmon, who has the potential to help Illinois become a team of relevance in the Big Ten for several years to come.
http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/illinois-shouldnt-listen-to-fans-about-john-groce/
So was Groce Ohio St.
Yea we're on the same page. I mean right now we're just guessing, basically we're trying to predict how this season will play out and then what Whitman's decision will be off of our prediction, which is dumb but fun to talk about.
I just have full faith that Whitman will make the right decision. I think what's getting missed here is it's not a "keep for another year" vs "fire now" decision; it's a "extend him because no 2 yr contract coach can succeed" vs "fire now". Groce would have to do a whole hell of a lot to earn an extension, which I have 0% faith in him doing.
My question is, how do these kids not see Groce as the issue like we all do? Similarly, if these kids are picking up what Groce is putting down, why aren't we a better team schematically. If he can get them to commit, he should be able to coach them up. Obviously this is the issue. DMW isnt leaving. He's injured and has Illini ties. Fraizer is probably the most likely to leave, though 50/50 seems high to me. I find it hard to believe JT and TF are that convinced Groce needs to be their head coach. A lot of them staying/leaving depends on the coach we would hypothetically be hiring. Guys without name recognition (similar to Groce) are going to need to be great sweet talkers to convince these kids to stick around. A like Miller or Drew would definitely have a chance to keep them, but even Cuonzo may have trouble (ignoring his ESL ties).I think when Thomas hired Groce (and Beckman) the ideal coach was a youngish guy who was a semi proven coach, but with major upside. TBH looking at Groce's and Beckman's respective team rankings before/during/after their tenures at their previous school, I dont see much change. Getting a guy like Miller, or Drew, who has obvious improvement (and not just one or two exceeding expectation years) is my #1 requirement.
I think Whitman gets his guy regardless. He proved with Lovie that we aren't going for potential, but for proven commodities.
Also disclaimer: I dont think Miller or Drew leave for UI, though money may persuade them. I could see them pulling a Self though after a few years. Even more sad of a thought: I dont think either turn this team into what they were early 2000's. Still I need to see how this year plays out before I official call for Groce's head.
I may be mistaken but....
...IT FEELS LIKE VAN GUNDY TIME.
Also if I hear anyone in post game say "we've got some things we have to clean up, Jim" one more time, I am gonna lose my ducati. You don't get to say that after Jan-1.
...IT FEELS LIKE VAN GUNDY TIME.
Also if I hear anyone in post game say "we've got some things we have to clean up, Jim" one more time, I am gonna lose my ducati. You don't get to say that after Jan-1.
RichBradIllini
- Peoria
"Fun" "Game"
Big ten coaches you'd rather have than Groce? For me....
Izzo, Beilien obvi
Turgeon yes
Matta, Painter - unenthusiastic yes
Miles, Collins: probably yes
Chambers: I actually like, but probably no
Gard who knows
Pikiell, Pitino no
Mccaffery, Crean: any success not worth the taint. Feel a little bit the same about Collins
Big ten coaches you'd rather have than Groce? For me....
Izzo, Beilien obvi
Turgeon yes
Matta, Painter - unenthusiastic yes
Miles, Collins: probably yes
Chambers: I actually like, but probably no
Gard who knows
Pikiell, Pitino no
Mccaffery, Crean: any success not worth the taint. Feel a little bit the same about Collins
Such a dumb article. A lot of these points don't warrant a response they're so poorly thought through. I like our recruiting class, really I do. Part of what makes it such an impressive class though, is that we recruited a solid, top-25 class despite our continued irrelevance.
+
It seems fitting to me to use a football analogy as we have a lot of arm chair quarterbacks. We all believe Lovie was a great hire. His recruiting class is currently ranked 45th in the country and I am not criticizing him for this. Just pointing out that recruiting is not easy at UI despite a coach's reputation. Fire the defensive coordinator and get over it.
I appreciate your perspective, even if I disagree with it. My only question to you would be: what has Groce done that leads you to believe he is or can be a successful coach here?
A football analogy is a poor analogy there because basketball recruiting is much, much easier at UI than football recruiting because of the available in-state talent base plus the history and facilities of the program.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
This is probably the appropriate place to point out that The Pitino Child has the Gophers ranked.
Doesn't matter. All Pitino tree branches are strictly forboden
Just over 15 months ago I was laughing at MN for giving him a raise and extension.
Yeah...I don't really know what to do about that. That was my Worst Hire of All Time and through three years that looked even more correct than I'd realized.
I hear ya; it has surprised me as well. Two interesting points from Minny's current season though:
1.) The record is a bit misleading as they have had a somewhat soft schedule which makes their jump from last season a bit more impressive than it probably is. Not saying they're not having a good season, but more that I still feel like they'll have a coming down to earth stretch soon.
2.) I suspect hiring Ed Conroy as an assistant helped turn things a bit as well. Not to rehash all my arguments about the merits of hiring ex-head coaches as assistants and how many successful programs employ that strategy, but I assume hiring a 10-year, veteran D1 coach helped Minny quite a bit.
- Status