I haven't really paid attention to Capel since Oklahoma, so I honestly don't know the answer to the following question. Why do you think he hasn't been hired elsewhere since 2011 with all the positives you pointed out?
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I haven't really paid attention to Capel since Oklahoma, so I honestly don't know the answer to the following question. Why do you think he hasn't been hired elsewhere since 2011 with all the positives you pointed out?
Well, based on some brief googling, he's certainly been a candidate at places, but I think he may be aiming for the Duke head job, so he's likely not accepting lower tier gigs. I'd rather be the 2nd man at Duke than the HC at Georgia Tech, for example as well, so he's likely being pretty selective about leaving. I'm not even sure he's going to be gettable now that he's serving as interim at Duke while K is out (also something mentioned previously in this thread, but my top 3 was formulated pre-Coach K leave of absence), but I would be happy if he were attainable and our hire.
For those discussing Jeff Capel, the primary reason Blake Griffin chose Oklahoma over blue bloods was because his older brother was already on the team.
On another note, does Cuonzo Martin's track record at Tennessee scare anyone? He was in the NIT his first two years following 6 straight NCAA Tourneys under Pearl and was headed there in his third season before he won 5 of his final 6 to sneak into a play in game. They ended up going on a run to the sweet 16 by beating a reeling Iowa in the play in game (same team we beat in Iowa City on Ekey's 3), 6 seed UMass in the first round and then 14 seed Mercer (coming off upset over Duke) before losing a tight game to 2 seed Michigan in the sweet 16.
Tennessee fans wanted him fired for the majority of the year as it looked like they were going to make the NIT (and Pearl's show cause penalty was ending), so Martin parlayed the sweet 16 to the job at Cal to avoid a hot seat the upcoming year.
On another note, does Cuonzo Martin's track record at Tennessee scare anyone? He was in the NIT his first two years following 6 straight NCAA Tourneys under Pearl and was headed there in his third season before he won 5 of his final 6 to sneak into a play in game. They ended up going on a run to the sweet 16 by beating a reeling Iowa in the play in game (same team we beat in Iowa City on Ekey's 3), 6 seed UMass in the first round and then 14 seed Mercer (coming off upset over Duke) before losing a tight game to 2 seed Michigan in the sweet 16.
Tennessee fans wanted him fired for the majority of the year as it looked like they were going to make the NIT (and Pearl's show cause penalty was ending), so Martin parlayed the sweet 16 to the job at Cal to avoid a hot seat the upcoming year.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Bennett talk was just made up on Twitter and then spilled here. I don't know if there is actually any legs to that name. He would definitely be a good hire though.
Having said that, in terms of money, Keatts has a base of 300K and Miller makes around 700K so we'd definitely be able to lure those guys financially.
Having said that, in terms of money, Keatts has a base of 300K and Miller makes around 700K so we'd definitely be able to lure those guys financially.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
My (limited) understanding of his Tennessee tenure was that it was a sour situation from day one due to the terms of Pearl's departure. Not dismissing those results, but worth considering/discussion.
I'm aware that we would not be getting a Beilein-esque coach in Martin. But he's competent enough to get us back to the middle/upper tier of the conference and back to the tourney - which, after you swallow your pride, you can admit is what we need in a HC right now, full stop. I think Keatts may be a star someday, but what if he isn't? I also think Cuonzo Martin can probably reach his absolute coaching ceiling at two places: Illinois and Purdue.
These are the bets you have to make when you haven't played a NCAA tournament game in almost 1,400 days.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
This jives with what I've heard from my Vols coworkers. Pearl was adored by the Tn faithful, despite his current and past transgressions and any replacement was going to start off in the doghouse.
I think of anyone out there that we can get, Cuonzo is at the top of my list (which means nothing). Right now I'm of the opinion that even should Groce make the tournament he should be gone. I like the guy, love his energy and the way he reps UIUC, but he's not getting it done. Keeping him for recruits or because we get a double-digit seed isn't going to help the program.
Having said that, if some miracle occurs and we get to the second weekend, I don't see how you can fire the guy from a PR perspective. I can't think of a time where a coach that overperforms in the tournament gets fired afterwards.
Here's the case against Martin:
Missouri State the three years before Cuonzo:
61-36 (32-22 conf)
Missouri State in three years under Cuonzo:
61-41 (26-28 conf)
Tennessee the three years before Cuonzo:
68-37 (29-19 conf)
Tennessee in three years under Cuonzo:
63-41 (32-20 conf)
Cal in the three years before Cuonzo:
66-36 (35-19 conf)
Cal in three years under Cuonzo:
52-31 (21-19 conf)
All three jobs he inherited in good shape. He's had at least one five star player on every one of his Tennessee and Cal teams, and as many as three at a time, but has only made the tournament twice.
There are a lot of great wins on those resumes, he's beaten Florida, beaten Kentucky, beaten Arizona, beat Oregon last year, but a consistent season equal to the talent he has isn't there yet.
Missouri State the three years before Cuonzo:
61-36 (32-22 conf)
Missouri State in three years under Cuonzo:
61-41 (26-28 conf)
Tennessee the three years before Cuonzo:
68-37 (29-19 conf)
Tennessee in three years under Cuonzo:
63-41 (32-20 conf)
Cal in the three years before Cuonzo:
66-36 (35-19 conf)
Cal in three years under Cuonzo:
52-31 (21-19 conf)
All three jobs he inherited in good shape. He's had at least one five star player on every one of his Tennessee and Cal teams, and as many as three at a time, but has only made the tournament twice.
There are a lot of great wins on those resumes, he's beaten Florida, beaten Kentucky, beaten Arizona, beat Oregon last year, but a consistent season equal to the talent he has isn't there yet.
Couple questions to those interested in this discussion.
1A. Would Whitman open up the checkbook to reinvigorate the program with a more proven coach? 1B. How big would he go? I think a solid hire could bring in at least 2-3k more fans to the seats, which is probably worth over $1mil a year.
2. Also, I could probably google him to find out more, but would he rule out anyone based on compliance record? Will he expect squeaky clean?
1A. Would Whitman open up the checkbook to reinvigorate the program with a more proven coach? 1B. How big would he go? I think a solid hire could bring in at least 2-3k more fans to the seats, which is probably worth over $1mil a year.
2. Also, I could probably google him to find out more, but would he rule out anyone based on compliance record? Will he expect squeaky clean?
Sleepy Floyd
Kicking it with Fat Lever
- Champaign
And his style is boring and will annoy a lot of fans. If we win at a high level it is not an issue but, if we are middle of the pack it will be a problem.
He has built them to a place above where Gregory ever had them. And seeing is believing, they have definitely passed the eye test when I've watched them. Young guy, good recruiter, there's a reason he's been in the mix for so many bigger jobs.
Root for NC State this year. Not only for our tournament resume, but that's Archie's alma mater and he might take that job over ours.
Kenny Payne is the name I was going to throw out there. As a disclaimer, I know nothing about him. However in my line of work, if we are unable to fill a position with a proven candidate the person with whom a candidate has trained is of very high importance. I know many have very negative opinions of Calipari, but the guy wins both on the court and on the recruiting trail. Payne is his top recruiter and his associate head coach who has a huge salary. He must be critical to Kentucky's success to have that salary.
I'd still take Miller over this guy, but after that I'd be looking at the top assistants across the country. Capel is intriguing as is Payne.
So was Orlando Antigua.
No matter the criteria you set, you will find coaches who don't perform.
Was curious so looked up staffs of best programs. In each case they have an !!!'t with previous head coaching credentials which are much above UI.
Examples
uke-Capel, UK-Tony Barbee, KU-Norm Roberts(UI at one time), and UConn-Glenn Miller
Need to build a staff instead of tossing one out every four years.
Examples
uke-Capel, UK-Tony Barbee, KU-Norm Roberts(UI at one time), and UConn-Glenn Miller Need to build a staff instead of tossing one out every four years.
Winning at USF vs Illinois is a bit different. Illinois offers academics, history, Big Ten and a quality roster. USF will never offer anything close to what Illinois has to offer.
True. From my perspective, if you are trying to hire a new coach and you are not a Blue Blood poaching from a top 25 type of program, there is significant risk in the hire. Rarely will a guy make a lateral move so you are either taking an assistant or a guy from a mid-major where it's a completely different ballgame.
Pretty ironically, I threw out Payne from Kentucky who based on what I have read has a track record like Groce had when he was hired at Ohio, the guy I've wanted replaced for over a year now.
There are warts on every candidate we can legitimately get. Hopefully Whitman can find the guy who has the traits that can be best levied for success given the particular circumstances of Illinois Basketball.
No doubt. I'd rather not take the risk of hiring someone who's never run a program. It does mean you might miss out on a star, but I like the odds of hiring a guy with head coaching experience. And I think we need someone who's more than just a "recruiter", though that part is important of course.
Probably true. That does not explain Capel recruiting the VCU team that would later blow up under Anthony Grant, including future NBA player Eric Maynor, nor Willie Warren, Tiny Gallon and Tommy Mason-Griffin as other McDAA's Capel brought to Oklahoma, nor Duke becoming a one-and-done factory since he got there.
This is a little bit of fun with selected endpoints, but from 2008-2011, Duke only signed two recruits in the top 13 of the RSCI: Austin Rivers and Kyrie Irving. The team at the end of that four-year recruiting run was the one who lost to Lehigh in the first round. That was Capel's first year back as an assistant.
In the five years since, Duke has landed ten top 13 recruits: Rasheed Suliamon, Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow, Brandon Ingram, Derryck Thorton, Harry Giles, Jayson Tatum and Marques Bolden.
I am much more skeptical of recruiting ability, especially for elite players, transferring from other contexts to Illinois than I am demonstrated wins and losses coaching. Nevertheless, the evidence that Capel has been a difference making recruiter in his career is overwhelming.
And we are not the only team interested, he was Georgia Tech's first choice last year and he turned them down.
The blemish on his record is that year that followed Blake Griffin leaving OU. That team still had a ton of talent, Willie Warren was the preseason Big 12 player of the year, they were ranked 17th to begin the season, and it was a total disaster on and off the court. They finished with a losing record, there were widespread reports of internal discord, all of the good players transferred after the season, assistants got fired, it became a mess so fast.
What the heck happened there? Was it all Capel's fault? Would it happen again? Has he learned from it?
We can't know these answers. Josh Whitman will have to find out.
Having said all of that, if Coach K's back is bad enough that he needs surgery in the middle of the season, I am not so sure Capel doesn't already have the Duke job for good.
As was Tony Barbee. As was Josh Pastner. As was Derek Kellogg.
The Calipari coaching tree has not been a fruitful one. It's probably an oversimplification, but you get the sense that his assistants are his recruiting grunt work foot soldiers and he's the brains of the operation.
FWIW, I know a guy here in my town who's son played for Wisconsin before transferring. He knows Tony Bennett and when I asked if he thought there would be any chance of Bennett coming back to B10 country, he shook his head and said "I just can't see it. I'm not 100% obviously and money talks, but I just don't think he would be interested".
I've been reading this thread nearly every day but haven't really posted much. I'm in the fire Groce camp, but want to give him the full regular season to make his case.
Here's a hypothetical I'm curious about:
At the end of the regular season, we are clearly "out" of the tournament, but with some outside help and a decent run in the Big Ten Tourney we could jump into consideration. I think I would rather fire Groce before the Big Ten Tourney. I think 5 seasons speaks more than 1 week of performance. It takes the "risk" of him making a run and getting into the tournament off the table. Thoughts?
Here's a hypothetical I'm curious about:
At the end of the regular season, we are clearly "out" of the tournament, but with some outside help and a decent run in the Big Ten Tourney we could jump into consideration. I think I would rather fire Groce before the Big Ten Tourney. I think 5 seasons speaks more than 1 week of performance. It takes the "risk" of him making a run and getting into the tournament off the table. Thoughts?
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I have to think that's the case.
It's not like Tony Bennett is having a rough go of it in his current gig. He's winning ACC titles and securing 1-seeds.
I'm all for making a go of it. I wonder how much $$ it would cost to tempt Billy Donavon to get back into coaching? Huge long shot, but maybe he's tired of the NBA game like Kruger/Calapari? Tony Bennett is my #1 choice, but can't see that ever happening
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