Pregame: Illinois vs Michigan, Wednesday, January 11th, 8:00pm CT, BTN

[TriCityBurbs]

JCL, Abrams and Hill have all proven they can hit big time shots.

JCL-Chicago St, Iowa multiple times in B1G tourney
Hill-OSU other day, Penn St at home
Abrams- @Minnesota few years ago, free throws against MizNoz, assist to Ekey @Iowa

 

[jrichisamazing]

I like Hill but he tends to fold in the clutch situations. More often than not he forces things and loses the ball without even getting a shot off. The bulldog is much better getting it done.

I'm talking specifically last play of the game, game on the line.

I think it's a close call, but I would go with Hill. I do know what you mean, though. He gets flustered sometimes when a more athletic guy puts some pressure on him. In those scenarios, he needs a screen to give him some room to do his thing. Too much 1 on 1 sometimes.

I do agree that TA is usually clutch. He's hit quite a few shots late in games to either win it or put the nail in the coffin. Ultimately, I think Hill's knack for drawing fouls gives him the edge over TA.

 

[ItsFootballTime]

JCL, Abrams and Hill have all proven they can hit big time shots.

JCL-Chicago St, Iowa multiple times in B1G tourney
Hill-OSU other day, Penn St at home
Abrams- @Minnesota few years ago, free throws against MizNoz, assist to Ekey @Iowa

They gotta believe that every home game for the rest of the season is the most important game of their life.

That maybe dont apply to Tracy Abrams because he played against Miami in the third round of the ncaa tournament back in 2013.

 

[jrichisamazing]

JCL, Abrams and Hill have all proven they can hit big time shots.

JCL-Chicago St, Iowa multiple times in B1G tourney
Hill-OSU other day, Penn St at home
Abrams- @Minnesota few years ago, free throws against MizNoz, assist to Ekey @Iowa

Abrams assists @Penn St and @Hawaii are 2 more I can remember.

 

[TriCityBurbs]

Abrams assists @Penn St and @Hawaii are 2 more I can remember.

Exactly. We really do have a lot of talented guys. They need to bring that Iowa big ten tourney game, VCU second half, NC St second half, Purdue at home last year intensity ALL THE TIME. It's so disappointing seeing our guys kick themselves when they're down, on top of the fans and media win or lose. We all know what we can do, it's a matter of the guys being focused, if Groce does anything right it's that he consistently tries to keep them positive because they need it. That's why I love him so much, he wants the best for his players, he represents the university in such a positive way as a person. That's why it sucks seeing them underperform. If we didn't have the talent, we wouldn't be so mad but it's that we can do it! We all know it, they just need to believe.

 

[ChiefIllini]

Hill has gotten there. But Tracy is a natural floor leader that way.

I'd argue JCL seems pretty ice cold. Admittedly, he hasn't gotten many chances, and hes really only gonna get you a good look from 3, but he did have a winner against Chicago St. last year and I remember a 3 to end a half this year.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I'd argue JCL seems pretty ice cold. Admittedly, he hasn't gotten many chances, and hes really only gonna get you a good look from 3, but he did have a winner against Chicago St. last year and I remember a 3 to end a half this year.

Oh, I agree, but that's not a shot he gets himself.

What I love about Tracy is that when the offense gets stagnant, he senses it and attacks off the dribble. All teams need guys like that. Instigators.

 

[FeelYourPaign]

Oh, I agree, but that's not a shot he gets himself.

What I love about Tracy is that when the offense gets stagnant, he senses it and attacks off the dribble. All teams need guys like that. Instigators.

ha ha, then you are the Tracy Abrams of this board :thumb:

 

[zoggle101]

I'm not feeling the Thorne hate. Kid had a solid second half. He grabbed a couple strong boards. Sure, LB and MT haven't been sharing the sugar as much as I'd like especially LB after a offensive rebound. We need both guys to be a tournament team. You're getting a rebound away from MT easily like you do to Finke.

Kipper struggles his first couple of minutes in the second half, but played outstanding after that.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

I'm not feeling the Thorne hate. Kid had a solid second half. He grabbed a couple strong boards.

3 minutes, 2 fouls, 1 rebound. Why on earth do you keep doing this?

 

[Ga65]

I think it's a close call, but I would go with Hill. I do know what you mean, though. He gets flustered sometimes when a more athletic guy puts some pressure on him. In those scenarios, he needs a screen to give him some room to do his thing. Too much 1 on 1 sometimes.

I do agree that TA is usually clutch. He's hit quite a few shots late in games to either win it or put the nail in the coffin. Ultimately, I think Hill's knack for drawing fouls gives him the edge over TA.

You didn't mention Tate.

 

[Greensboro]

MSU lost their 2 experienced bigs in Schilling and grad xfer Carter. As we now from last year, that can really be tough to overcome. And their best frosh Miles Bridges missed 7 games with an ankle injury. They'll still be pretty good by the end of the season. And yes, much better next year even though Bridges is probably one and done.

Thanks, definitely losing experienced bigs when they were already thin at big is a problem. I still think it puts a good perspective of what to expect from our 2017 class, when MSU brings in Bridges (12 -247 ranking), Langford (20), Winston (33), & Ward (41). As good as we like to think our 2017 class is, it isn't close to this level and MSU isn't taking the B1G by storm on the backs of 4 freshman. No doubt they will be much better by end of year.

 

[Dan]

Groce previews Michigan

Groce: Good practice yesterday. Film showed we played well for 30 minutes but slow start buried us.

Groce: All in all, we did some good things. Some real bright spots in Nichols and Lucas.

Groce: Hill played well in 2H, JCole played well and Mav did some good things

Groce: Defensively we have to play better. Had some good stretches with a certain lineup but we have to be better.

Groce on Te'Jon and Kipper. "They'll play."

Groce: Thought it was in our best interest to play Kipper in those lineups.

Groce: We've got to impose more will on defensive end.

Groce: Kipper allows versatility to guard on perimeter and post and compete on backboard at same time.

Groce: We wrinkled a couple things pertaining to Michigan. There will be changes to lineup. It's nothing personal.

Groce: "We've got to be better defensively. I hate to keep wearing that out." No, it's worth repeating.

Groce: Certain guys have to be more consistent. I like having depth. I lived the alternative.

Groce: Guys have to buy in and embrace what they're doing role-wise when you have depth. Finding chemistry is a challenge.

Groce: We need some guys to stand out more and make it easier on the coaches to make those decisions and not be up and down.

Groce: Kipper can play both 4 and 3

Groce: I've emphasized to Leron is that he has such a gift to rebound that he impacts game at high level no matter if he scores

Groce: Thorne is great conditioning wise and health. Efficient offensively but must improve defensively.

https://twitter.com/JWernerScout

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

Of course we're not supposed to be happy rolling over for anyone. And of course the current direction is concerning: this is an unprecedented period of futility for a top-15 all-time program. But obviously making the tourney is still the goal and there's still a path for us. What's confusing about that?

Unless you're insinuating that we should be hoping to lose against fellow mediocre teams so that we miss the tournament, sealing Groce's dismissal. If that's the case, I'm confused, because I'm the kind of fan that roots for a win every time we step on the court and a tournament appearance every year. I'm not currently optimistic about the team's prospects this year or going forward under Groce, but I hope like heck they prove me wrong.

Very good summary Dr. Greg, agree 100%.

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

Thorne simply is not as mobile as he was before the injury last year. Probably as frustrating for him as it is for us. Until he improves his quickness he should not be on the floor, maybe at all.

This. he looked downright electric in the post last year, fast and agile for a guy his size. sucks so bad for him the injury brought him down. He's doing his best, they all are. I try to remember that.

 

[GameOfThrows]

Thanks, definitely losing experienced bigs when they were already thin at big is a problem. I still think it puts a good perspective of what to expect from our 2017 class, when MSU brings in Bridges (12 -247 ranking), Langford (20), Winston (33), & Ward (41). As good as we like to think our 2017 class is, it isn't close to this level and MSU isn't taking the B1G by storm on the backs of 4 freshman. No doubt they will be much better by end of year.

One huge difference is that next season we won't be relying so heavily on our Freshmen. I suspect Frazier and Tilmon will get lots of tick, but they might be the only two Frosh who play extensive minutes for us next season. (Maybe Mark Smith if we get him and if he is the real deal, maybe Pickett if AJ and/or DJW transfer - hope that does not happen!).

We'll have JCL, Kipper, TJL, Black, Finke, and hopefully both AJ and DJW that will be key pieces of next season's team.

 

[SescIllini]

I have been a big fan of Kipper since he transferred. I'm glad that he is being recognized for his efforts. I believe he is one of the hardest workers on the team.


I think there is truth to him not being totally comfortable with the defense and offense, it showed a little bit against Indiana. But he has tools and talents that can compete against the top 25 teams. Groce talks about teaching one position per year and probably has Kipper as a 4 this year even though he is NBA SG size. I hope to see him, Malcolm, and DJW on the floor at the same time. DJW appears the best to be able to get into seems and behind the defense in his limited time.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I hope to see him, Malcolm, and DJW on the floor at the same time.

That lineup would have a lot of trouble with ballhandling, so you'd need Tate at the 1, and then it would have a lot of trouble with shooting, so you'd need Finke at the 5, and then it would have a lot of trouble defending anybody.

Because of that conundrum I feel like you need either JCL or Black on the floor at all times. Any lineup JCL is in has adequate shooting, and any lineup Black is in can at least somewhat defend.

Maybe you could go a little Flying Illini with Hill, DJW, Kipper and Black all as long athletic guys around the same size? Could Lucas handle that assignment to make the shooting and ballhandling aspect work? That's a fun message board fantasy, but putting a true freshman at the helm of a quirky experimental young lineup could be a recipe for a ton of mistakes in a real game.

 

[rtbritt]

Groce said there will be changes to line-up....Obvious one is Mav for Thorne. Any others anyone sees as likely? He talked up Kipper, so maybe he gets a start? Don't know who he'd replace.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Groce said there will be changes to line-up....Obvious one is Mav for Thorne. Any others anyone sees as likely? He talked up Kipper, so maybe he gets a start? Don't know who he'd replace.

I'd guess Lucas will eat into Tate's minutes and Kipper will eat into Finke's and maybe DJW's.

Or maybe this will be smoke and mirrors again. Groce has said one thing and done another with his rotations before.

 

[Illiniguy13]

I'd guess Lucas will eat into Tate's minutes and Kipper will eat into Finke's and maybe DJW's.

Or maybe this will be smoke and mirrors again. Groce has said one thing and done another with his rotations before.

Hard to look past the intensity and hustle Kipper brings. Needs more tic.

 

[Dan]

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[GameOfThrows]

I'd guess Lucas will eat into Tate's minutes and Kipper will eat into Finke's and maybe DJW's.

Or maybe this will be smoke and mirrors again. Groce has said one thing and done another with his rotations before.

Let's hope Groce has grown tired of banging his head into a wall and severely limits Tate and Thorne's minutes.

1) Abrams, TJL,
2) JCL, Abrams, AJ
3) Hill, AJ, DJW, Kipper
4) Black, Finke, Kipper
5) Morgan, Finke, Black

That's 10 guys without even playing Tate and Thorne. I realize it's not going to happen, but those ten guys above can get the job done and offers lots of versatility and line-up combos. Groce can play small-ball, go long and athletic, 3 or 4 guard, etc.

OK, I'll stop talking now...

 

[Bear8287]

TA is the only "go to guy" on our team at clutch time. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Hey, even Jordan was about 50% on "clutch" shots. Source.

 

[Jkat00]

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