Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Gotcha, but the way you worded the post I responded to it seemed that you were referring to his Purdue job as his first HC gig.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Talent at the point guard position is last in the league, Lucas will be good but not yet. How many times have we gotten an offensive rebound, tried to go back up and the shot is swatted away? I do not think the talent is real good and we are very slow. I hope the offseason program focuses on more lateral quickness. Last offseason we evidently had great strides in strength and vertical jump but we are very slow. We do not have anyone other that Lucas that could drive past his man and score and probably no one that can keep the man they are guarding from doing the same. I trust Whitman and hope for better days ahead because this has been unbelievably frustrating for us all
He was a pretty good point guard that could get into the lane before the injuries
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Groce has had 4 recruiting classes to bring in a true PG and maybe, finally got one in TJL. Using TA's injury as an excuse for the product on the floor just highlights the recruiting issues.
Groce is gone by the end of March, we'd all best get used to it.
I think he probably is too. I hope Frazier comes because he and Lucas are a great start at point guard. There is no doubt if you watch any college basketball as we all do the game is a guards game and we simply don't have them.
The guy who has what you call "actual strategic basketball responsibility" at Kansas has actually been a huge failure at his two attempts as HC.
Matt Painter was never actually an assistant to Purdue. Purdue named him HC really, when they announced Keady retirement with Painter taking over and gave him a contract. His serving as an associate at Purdue had noting to do with auditioning, but after he accepted the job at Purdue, he could not be the HC at SIU. continue recruiting, etc.
Matt Doherty became the HC at ND and UNC, never an assistant at ND or UNC. Tom Crean actually became the HC at Marquette, after being an assistant at MSU. There are other examples. The fact is, per point in my post, it does not happen often, but does not equate to either success or failure.
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Down in our cafeteria today "Eye of the Tiger" was on the radio. It made me smile and think, 'at least we never had Quinny Pooh as our coach'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZKoIu-ECfshttp://
WTF. I dont watch pro basketball at all. google machine says Quin Snyder is HEAD COACH of an NBA TEAM?! Wha? Utah is clearly the Smooth Jazz now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZKoIu-ECfshttp://
WTF. I dont watch pro basketball at all. google machine says Quin Snyder is HEAD COACH of an NBA TEAM?! Wha? Utah is clearly the Smooth Jazz now.
And he still can. Unfortunately it's what happens then that is the problem.
Indeed. It is entirely possible that a dominant dynastic basketball program in fact has NO assistants who would be above average P5 head coaches in their own right. That is not an impossibility at all.
Trivia game on point :thumb:
Tracy is not a point guard and never was, plain and simple.
Quin Snyder is a legitimately good NBA coach now. Donald Trump is President. The Cubs are the World Champions.
The evidence that we're living in some bizarre science experiment continues to mount.
skyIdub
"I can't tell you. Secret."
If all you can get is a project HC....might as well continue this project with one more recruiting class. Shake up the Asst. tree and see if that helps x's and o's?
Home run hire or bust. Then Groce will know without any whispering that it's win or else next year. Then swing for the HC fences again? I don't know, i'm at a loss.
Home run hire or bust. Then Groce will know without any whispering that it's win or else next year. Then swing for the HC fences again? I don't know, i'm at a loss.
If we're going to start pitching current assistants that could transition to being a HC at a P5 program, I'd wouldn't mind having someone call Dane Fife over at MSU.
Not at all, big name programs actually groom assistant coaches with their culture and experiences of success, but it is also the fact that some of their coaches "push" their own candidates and are some of the most influential figures in the coaching profession. Coach K is arguably (and IMO) the most influential person in college basketball, definitely in coaching, way beyond Duke's on-court success or the pure value of an assistant.
There is also some commonality and culture in hiring decisions. UI has never been a risk-taker, high risk/high-reward decision maker. Everyone wants the A+ candidates, the hot names, e.g. Shaka, Stevens, Bennett, etc. The culture is defined, however, by the decisions schools make when that pool dries up. Look at Marquette, for example. It is no coincidence that some of the risk hirings we have talked in this thread, Wojo, Buzz, Crean, etc. all come from the same school. VCU has a similar culture, at mid-major.
This is my first post so be nice. But i honestly want to see how the team closes out the season. If we fibusb strong and somehow do end up on the bubble i believe it would be hard to fire groce given the talent coming in next season. Everyone is saying he needed a class like this his second year not fifth i agree but he thought he had a home run 2014 class right up till signing day. If snider doesnt decommit and alexander comes to champaign who knows where this program is now.
EfremWinters84
- S. Carolina
Well, this has really gotten bad. I've had to stay away since the losses to MD at home and MICH on the road, and as the embarrassment continues to build.
Thank God I've got the Cubs!
Give me Frank Martin, Archie or Buzz. And while I really want our 2017 recruits to remain committed, it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. Great coaches can turn around a basketball program in short order. Let's hire an A+ guy!
Thank God I've got the Cubs!
Give me Frank Martin, Archie or Buzz. And while I really want our 2017 recruits to remain committed, it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. Great coaches can turn around a basketball program in short order. Let's hire an A+ guy!
Lovie Smith is not a high-risk hiring in the category we are talking about. We are talking about coaches with less experience, current assistants, etc. Lovie Smith is a big-time hire of a "name" coach, yet an opportunistic hire. It would be the same as UI hiring Fred Hoiberg (if he got fired) or Ben Howland (when he got fired by UCLA). This is not the same risk as hiring, Wojo, Buzz, Crean, Doherty, Collins, Pastner, Painter, etc.
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Calling Lovie Smith high-risk is being hyperbolic, especially when the initial comment pertained to Jerrance Howard as a HC canddiate. Not really a fair comparison. The biggest question/risk with Lovie was recruiting, and maybe if his defensive concepts would translate, but to call him high risk is certainly unfair.
Calling Jerrance high-risk is entirely accurate. Hiring assistants with no head coaching experience is high risk, and we have no history of doing that. I don't think we've ever made really, really big leaps of faith on our hires to the football/hoops posts, I have no issues with Obelix's statement, especially in this context.
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Welcome to the board!
All of these points have been discussed at length in this thread, but I just remain perplexed by the following of the "What If" train of thought in year 5. Individual recruiting cycles, injuries, etc. have not led to 4 straight years of bad basketball, or the roster holes, etc. The misses (with lack of backup plans) feels more like terrible mistakes than terrible luck due to the trend we've observed with the PG position, etc.
Not only Jerrance, but other names mentioned. Hiring a Fred Hoiberg or even an Avery Johnson is not in the same category of risk. I think Lovie, Avery Johnson, etc. are good hires, less risky, somewhat expensive, but opportunistic.
Just to add, obviously football and non-basketball, but Lovie is also pretty similar to John Mackovic who was an NFL coach fired by Kansas City. I actually thought the Mackovic hiring was a lot riskier since we also made him AD to financially entice him. A move that was a huge mistake, in that we also ended up with no AD to make a hire when Mackovic left. Double whammy. We really got caught with our pants down in that situation and paid dearly for it.
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Josh Whitman was. And letting him jet around and offer up the head coaching job before he'd even sat down at his desk while we had a head coach under contract certainly was.
The broader point is, the University of Illinois is not a person. It doesn't think, it doesn't talk, there are no magic spells in the walls. It is an institution with people who lead it, and the people who lead it are to a man different then they were 5 years ago, nevermind 10 or 20 years ago.
What evidence we have so far from that team of leadership is that aggressive action in support of revenue sports is something on the menu in a way it did not used to be.
When that leadership team brings in a coach who isn't Jerrance Howard, that will have nothing to do with the risk sensitivity that (allegedly) brought us Bruce Weber, and everything to do with the fact that people who know Howard a lot better than you or I do not believe he's up to the job.
Dave Wischnowsky @wischlist 58m58 minutes ago
If Josh Whitman taps the NBA for the next #Illini basketball coach, one potential name to watch is Stephen Silas of the Charlotte Hornets.
If Josh Whitman taps the NBA for the next #Illini basketball coach, one potential name to watch is Stephen Silas of the Charlotte Hornets.
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