Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
You aren't alone. Don't worry though it won't be Monty Williams.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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You aren't alone. Don't worry though it won't be Monty Williams.
I don't think it is that uncommon for decent teams to lose players like this for various reasons. It is up to the coach to have contingencies in place and coach the team up to overcome those losses. Groce hasn't been able to do that.
It is unfortunate that we have had many injuries and problems with players steering clear of the law, but you play the hand you're dealt.
So many sources!
I'm checking with a friend that knows some boosters and a media group member to see if they've heard anything about Williams. I have no clue what to believe.AEX
- West Lafayette
It could be a way to generate interest. Scholars call it mimetic desire, but that's just a fancy way of saying that when one person wants something, others start to want it too. You make it look like a former NBA coach is interested, others who might have been cool on this opportunity start to see it in a new light.
Cuonzo does nothing for me. That is a pass in my eyes.
Cuonzo could be the guy
The more I think about it the more I think it comes down to Cuonzo or Keatts. If JW can get Archie Miller then he should do it and don't look back but I think he will either get the NC State job next month or next year it's just a matter of time. Cuonzo is improving as a coach and his teams improve every year wherever he has gone. He is a good program builder and that's what we need. He would turn this around so would Keatts so I'm good with either
The more I think about it the more I think it comes down to Cuonzo or Keatts. If JW can get Archie Miller then he should do it and don't look back but I think he will either get the NC State job next month or next year it's just a matter of time. Cuonzo is improving as a coach and his teams improve every year wherever he has gone. He is a good program builder and that's what we need. He would turn this around so would Keatts so I'm good with either
I agree on both points, although IMO if you can coach in an NBA game, you can coach in a college game. The coaching doesn't change, it's the off the court stuff where you want to have experience in my opinion.
The latter is certainly true, but discussing smoke about a potential candidate is better than discussing if we should keep Groce another year for a chance at Mark Smith.
Can we cut the "pass" without offering a WHY / WHO else posts? They add nothing, being dismissive is counterproductive. At least name who falls into "better", because if you say Bennett, for example, I know I can ignore your perceived reality :thumb:
I'm sure you can find an article along those lines for literally any coach. Remember Groce's "brilliant basketball mind"? Besides, in that same article, you can spin it completely the opposite direction:
He's known for the player development and teaching we all know Groce hasn't provided at all in his time here! Great!
I think our chances with C Martin are a lot better than with Monty. Not because I think Monty is out of reach, he just seems like he would be a little more of a wild card... and I don't think Whitman is going to take a chance on him. Martin has a good record, only 1 sub .500 season, and a solid recruiter. My only concern with him would be his contract extension, but that wont stop JW if he is set on him.
MrOizo
- Chicago
Why not? Just curious as my opinion isn't based on watching his games at all. Just based on paper resume and articles.
I doubt it's Keatts. Whitman can't gamble on this hire at all. And it's a major leap to go from UNCW to coaching in the B1G. I'll go out on a limb and say it won't be Keatts. There. :thumb:
I like the idea of Martin more and more he is a very good recruiter that is obvious and his coaching is above average. He could be a guy that could get Illinois to the tourney most every year and if he hits on the right recruits take some teams past the first weekend of the tourney and farther. I'd like to see how his team finishes the year but so far so good.
MrOizo
- Chicago
Definitely frustrating that he *just* signed an extension. If it turns out that he is definitely interested in the Illinois job and is a legit candidate, this is a bit frustrating. Why extend if you know there's a strong possibility to leave (unless it was offered in a way that couldn't be delayed).
Because it gets him more money and doesn't prevent him from leaving if Illinois does offer him the job.
I don't really get the "program builder" title being applied to Cuonzo. None of his three stops were in bad places when he arrived.
Missouri State 3 years before Cuonzo: 22-9, 22-11, 17-16 -> 61-36 (629) overall
Missouri State 3 years under Cuonzo: 11-20, 24-12, 26-9 -> 61-41 (.598) overall
Tennessee 3 years before Cuonzo: 21-13, 28-9, 19-15 -> 68-37 (.648) overall
Tennessee 3 years under Cuonzo: 19-15, 20-13, 24-13 -> 63-41 (.606) overall
Cal 3 years before Cuonzo: 24-10, 21-12, 21-14 -> 66-36 (.647) overall
Cal 3 years under Cuonzo: 18-15, 23-11, 17-6 (incomplete, on pace for something like 22-8 regular season) -> 63-34 (.649) overall
Where is the program building going on?
If they want Cuonzo bad enough they will pay the buyout to get him. I wouldn't worry about that so much. I still think the first choice has to be Miller but if he turns down the job then Cuonzo has to be hired you can't pull a MT and have guy after guy turn you down and hire your 5th or 6th choice that looks really bad for JW and the school.
Plus, we all knew this season was do or die for Groce, everyone knew that, why would Cuonzo NOT take more money in an extension on the possibility of our job coming open?
Right. His existing contract is not much of an impediment. Guys get contract extensions the offseason before they leave for other jobs all the time.
midastouch11
- New York, New York
Notice the trajectory of the programs he inherited. Pretty rarely are new coaches entering healthy situations, his stops weren't exceptions.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
I think almost any realistic candidate is a gamble to some extent. Cuonzo due to his perceived limited ceiling. Williams due to not having ever coached at the college level. Keatts due to lack of P5 head coaching history.
Cuonzo is the short-term move, imo. Somewhat of a splash hire, will have a better chance of maintaining existing commits, etc. But will he ever take us back to the level of success we had pre-2007?
Monty would be a splash hire in the sense of his NBA connections and persona. Again might retain some or even most of the existing commits, but it's going to take some time to get his feet wet in the college game. We'd be looking at a 2-3 year program rebuild period and not sure many have the patience for that at this point.
Keatts is the long-term play. A rising star who's performed at every stop he's been in so far. You'd have to think recruiting might suffer a bit in the beginning, but if he can bring a seasoned recruiting staff and get the players who will succeed in his system, he'll have us winning games lots of games again before any of the others. His floor is probably lower than Cuonzo but his ceiling is astronomical. I guess that's why I'm still on the Keatts Train. I feel like he's the man who can get the Illini Train back on the rails.
Choo! Chooo!
:thumb:I agree.. I think if he stays in 4th for the remainder of the Pac 12 season, it was a good year for him. Arizona, Oregon and UCLA are all 21-3 right now, so being behind them isn't a bad thing. I want a coach that can hang in the top 4 in conference and every other year be the top 1-2. I think it is doable with Martin.
Does anyone have a breakdown of where Martin's teams finish on average in ppg, rpg and opponents ppg?
Hinson was fired not for poor performance, but simply because Missouri State wanted to make the tournament. Their program had an excellent APR, decent MVC talent, etc. Not unhealthy, just yearning for more.
Tennessee fired Pearl not for on the court performance, but for the cookout fiasco. IIRC, Tennessee was not punished for that, just Pearl/staff, so Cuonzo didn't walk into sanctions, and Pearl just had a bad last season. Not really unhealthy (in terms of roster and such, obviously we have already discussed the fans wanting Pearl still, etc)
Cal was certainly healthy, Mike Montgomery retired and left it in really good shape.
None of those were bad gigs to walk into
Those stats are good but what I meant is that his teams get better every year that he coaches. I agree he didn't take over programs that were in that bad of shape but when you really think about Groce didn't either he had talent here and made the tourney his first year. He just couldn't coach and recruit well enough to keep that momentum going.
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