Yeah, agreed, I personally don't see Bruce as being on the hot seat there, KSU has been entirely respectable under his tenure.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Yeah, agreed, I personally don't see Bruce as being on the hot seat there, KSU has been entirely respectable under his tenure.
Let's talk numbers because they don't lie. His combined head coaching record between Hargrave and UNCW is 326-43. UNCW's record from 2008-2009 until Keatts took the job in 2014 was 65-139 and their record since his arrival is 64-26. The season prior to Keatts taking over UNCW won 9 games and in his first season, Keatts won them a conference title. He coached 20 different eventual NBA players at Hargrave and recruited many of the players from the Louisville championship team.
In regards to Monty, if the fodder from last night is correct and we keep Walker, have a former D1 head coach, and another assistant, that's a good staff. Monty had less control over who his players were on his team while coaching the Pelicans than would a D1 coach. He had Anthony Davis and the GM used a lottery pick on Austin Rivers one year which hasn't panned out. He is a coach with USA basketball, a lot of his former players like him, and he also has credibility as an NBA player for 5 different teams. His teams were generally in top half of the league in defense as well.
Leonardite
- Terre Haute, IN
"But the insiders say Monty Williams is a done deal!"
Literally no one has said Monty is a done deal
So what makes Keatts stand out as THAT much more qualified than Groce, or Weber for that matter?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana
Results look different if you consider the previous season only, which is a better reflection of what he actually inherited:
Missouri State 1 year before Cuonzo: 17-16 (.515)
Missouri State 3 years under Cuonzo: 11-20, 24-12, 26-9 -> 61-41 (.598) overall
Tennessee 1 year before Cuonzo: 19-15 (.559)
Tennessee 3 years under Cuonzo: 19-15, 20-13, 24-13 -> 63-41 (.606) overall
Cal 1 year before Cuonzo: 21-14 (.600)
Cal 3 years under Cuonzo: 18-15, 23-11, 17-6 (incomplete, on pace for something like 22-8 regular season) -> 63-34 (.649) overall
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
You can't see the difference between what Groce did at Ohio and what Keatts is doing at UNCW on your own?
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
Other boards (and thought I saw discussion of it on here too, but may be wrong).
In hindsight, yes it doesn't seem as quite of a big deal. But at that time no one had ever done what he did. Also, Fignon had a chance to use the same sort of equipment, but he made a tactical mistake( most likely due to arrogance) by not choosing the same equipment for the last stage. If I remember right, he did finally put on a helmet and possibly the aero bars in the middle of the last stage, but it was too late by then.
Refer to Cahall's post, but really your comments are just showing me you haven't actually looked at the resume of either very closely and are just locked in on "midmajor coach bad" that seems to plague some people's thinking after the Groce and Beckman flops.
No it's not. It's a fact that Cuonzo hasn't pushed any of his programs beyond the level of success of his immediate predecessor.
On the flip side, all three of those predecessors were darned good coaches.
Wait, they did a time trial on the Champs Elysees?
I think next year will be worse than this year. I think Groce needs to go but I don't think anyone was going to get this group of players to achieve anything dramatically different. The recruiting failures and talent evaluation is why he is gone in my eyes. Just because they are losing doesn't mean they aren't being coached well or aren't trying. The players are playing hard they aren't good enough. This team needs roster turnover to get better in my opinion.
He's probably doing just enough to hang on there forever, but he's definitely brought the program down from where Martin had it. Other than his first year, they have been decidedly mediocre
So you are going to equate coaching a boarding school team with coaching in the NCAA?
Unfortunately, we may need to find a way to satisfy the instant gratification crowd or else we are going to be hearing them call for the next coach's head after year 2.
People wanting Groce gone now are absolutely justified, but the problem I have is with the fans who were calling for his head after year 2. How are you going to call for a coach to be fired who in year 1 took a group of players who went 2-11 in their last 13 games, and led them to within a blown call of going to the Sweet Sixteen, minus their lottery pick center from the previous year. Then in his second year brought in 9 new players and took them within an Abrams floater of getting into the tournament again the next year. On top of that, he brought in a top 15 recruiting class on limited time and also came close to landing a number of big time recruits that under the Weber regime would've been an absolute pipe dream.
Again, years 3-5 justify wanting a change. But the fans who called for a change after year 2 was unnecessary and just plain ignorant.
The quoted post shortened the span of Cuonzo predecessors without shortening Cuonzo's to year 1, for example, just to try and make a point, which is textbook confirmation bias. I posted the OP with 3 before v 3 under Cuonzo year spans for comparison. My OP wasn't even to state Cuonzo is a bad coach, just that the 'program builder' label he's being granted is unfounded in facts.
We don't know how this year ends up yet.
We are getting a roster turnover in essence.
Gone: Hill, Thorne, Abrams, Tate and Mav at least
Incoming: Tilmon, Frazier, Damonte, Pickett
That's pretty substantial
I think we all have a pretty good idea.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
My favorite part is that the #TeamShield logo also doubles as the front end of a locomotive. :thumb:
Well if we end up like 5-13 I definitely think we can be better next year.
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
And, presumably a significant upgrade in coaching.
Athleticism of the roster gets a huge bump next year, which is part of the reason they can't defend well this year. They are one of the least athletic and slowest teams in the B1G right now...
That's true but you can't expect much from these freshmen. They are going to have an incredibly hard time scoring next year unless Frazier is way better as a Freshman than I think he will be. Pickett,Williams and Tilmon can provide some minutes but they won't be ready to be leaned on.
Nailed it. They can't keep anyone in front of them on D and they can't beat anyone off the dribble offensively. How do you coach that up?
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