2017 Coaching Carousel

[LurkLongandProsper]

Right, the whole "I don't see that being a Lovie Smith-type hire" reaction that some of these candidates have gotten is beyond nuts.

Just another reach to dismiss a guy without actually respecting his credentials.

Is JW thinking that since he just ponied up big time $$ for Lovie that this new hire has to be more economical maybe in the 2.5-3 mildo range at most? If he can get the support to lure Bennett away that would be great just not sure its feasible.

2.5-3 million isn't being 'economical'. That would be towards the top of the conference. Here's a breakdown of coaches salaries in the conference, I'll try to provide source.

Using the table from this SB Nation post with B10 HC salaries unless otherwise noted.

Tom Izzo: 3.47 mil
Thad Matta: 3.27 mil
Tom Crean: 3.05 mil
John Beilein: 2.45 mil
Matt Painter: 2.43 mil
Mark Turgeon: 2.25 mil
Fran McCaffery: 1.8 mil
Greg Gard: 1.75 mil
John Groce: 1.7 mil
Tim Miles: 1.65 mil
Richard Pitino: 1.6 mil
Steve Pikiell: 1.6 mil
Chris Collins: 1.4 mil
Pat Chambers: .9 mil

Some of those numbers slightly contradict the USA Today numbers which include some 'other' bonuses and such, but the only one moving a lot is Izzo, jumping to above 4 million.

2.5 to 3 million would fit squarely in the top of conference and national basketball coaching salaries. Asking Whitman to pay 4+ million for pretty much anyone NOT named Tony Bennett is pretty crazy, there's just not many guys making that kind of money. Per the USA Today article, there were 10 coaches of teams in the tournament last year making 3 million or more. Don't expect us to go crazy and drop a blank check for guys.

 

[IlliniBrave75]

1h
Jeremy Werner‏ @JWernerScout
The #Illini volleyball coaching search lasted 10 days. Lovie was lined up before he dismissed Cubit. Whitman works quick.

 

[Tygor]

As far as payment is concerned, it can't be the 6/$21m that Lovie received unless it has his qualifications which is doubtful. i could see 6/$15m with bonuses for recruiting classes, tournament appearances, etc. that could go as high as $3m per year. I think we're kidding ourselves if it's more than that.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

As far as payment is concerned, it can't be the 6/$21m that Lovie received unless it has his qualifications which is doubtful. i could see 6/$15m with bonuses for recruiting classes, tournament appearances, etc. that could go as high as $3m per year. I think we're kidding ourselves if it's more than that.

Unless Bennett is legitimately in play, I don't think any of the most commonly discussed candidates on our board justify/warrant going above 2.75 as an absolute max, honestly, and I'd expect the final number to be closer to 2.5.

 

[SescIllini]

The only two negatives I can think of UVA and others may look them as positives. minor Geographic isolation (base of Shenandoah Hills/Valley) and competition against UNC, Duke, Maryland, VT for players/attention. I think Bennett looks at bluebloods, NBA, stays, or Wisconsin.


Wouldn't compare hiring coaches of revenue (bb,fb) vs. non-revenue.


Don't think we go with mid-major coach regardless how appealing he looks. Still think all roads lead to C Martin. Not sure he would leave Cal, but I believe that he is very high on the list.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

Wouldn't compare hiring coaches of revenue (bb,fb) vs. non-revenue.

We shouldn't even be comparing football hiring with basketball, but here we are.

 

[haasi]

Any chance we can get Lovie to coach the bball team too? Seems like exactly the type of guy Whitman likes to hire.

Still surprised he didn't hire Lovie as volleyball coach. The new coach does not seem like a Lovie-type hire.

 

[golferjohn1970]

Unless Bennett is legitimately in play, I don't think any of the most commonly discussed candidates on our board justify/warrant going above 2.75 as an absolute max, honestly, and I'd expect the final number to be closer to 2.5.

So would JW go to about 3 mildo for Bennett only? I agree this seems to be a good fit with U of I and Martin for about 2.5 or 15 over 6 years.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

So would JW go to about 3 mildo for Bennett only? I agree this seems to be a good fit with U of I and Martin for about 2.5 or 15 over 6 years.

3-3.5 for Bennett seems like the only way you even open discussions, in my opinion.

 

[UofI08]

The whole "Lovie-type" hire talk needs to stop. Lovie was the only "Lovie-type" candidate for the football job. JW could have done everything he did and had Lovie decide against taking the job. Who knows who was next on his list.

 

[golferjohn1970]

The whole "Lovie-type" hire talk needs to stop. Lovie was the only "Lovie-type" candidate for the football job. JW could have done everything he did and had Lovie decide against taking the job. Who knows who was next on his list.

Furthermore if Lovie wasn't available does he even fire Cubit? He was signed for this past year in fact so maybe he keeps him at least one more year as he did a decent job in 2015 going 5-7?

 

[golferjohn1970]

3-3.5 for Bennett seems like the only way you even open discussions, in my opinion.

I agree if he goes to Bennett that conversation has to begin at 3mm at least and go up from there. I just don't know if that is realistic but it's a great starting point.

 

[golferjohn1970]

I know I've seen posts about him but what about Randy Bennett from St. Mary's? Does he do anything for anyone on here? Great W-L record but no Midwest ties at all so is he a no?

 

[Deleted member 3875]

Clappy is overpaid.

 

[Obelix]

So would JW go to about 3 mildo for Bennett only? I agree this seems to be a good fit with U of I and Martin for about 2.5 or 15 over 6 years.

Financials will have little to do with whether these coaches decide to take the Illini job or not.

 

[Illinoise]

If you had to choose one of these options which would you take? Scale of 1-10, 10 is the best. A coach who is a 5 as a recruiter and a 10 as a coach or a 10 as a recruiter but a 5 as a coach?
Bennett would be fantastic but I just don't see any reason why he would do that. Would have to blow him away with money.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

If you had to choose one of these options which would you take? Scale of 1-10, 10 is the best. A coach who is a 5 as a recruiter and a 10 as a coach or a 10 as a recruiter but a 5 as a coach?
Bennett would be fantastic but I just don't see any reason why he would do that. Would have to blow him away with money.

Out of curiosity, is the first part and the second part of this related? I can't really answer that first part without more context on what a 5 and a 10 correlates to on this scale, honestly, but I think at Illinois, a 5 recruiter can still get enough talent in the state to succeed, so I'd go 10 coach.

I agree on the latter, thus why I think you need to open talks with salary around 3 million, which would put him into the top 25 coaches nationally in terms of salary EASILY to even start the conversation. Is that possible with Big Ten money? Absolutely. It would certainly be a statement hire.

Financials will have little to do with whether these coaches decide to take the Illini job or not.

I agree there's more at play than just "we doubled your salary and won the auction, come on over", but you still need to have the money right to even get the coach blink twice in most cases. Once you get them to the table is where all of the other factors would come into play, but you have to be able to get the conversation started.

 

[BananaShampoo]

If you had to choose one of these options which would you take? Scale of 1-10, 10 is the best. A coach who is a 5 as a recruiter and a 10 as a coach or a 10 as a recruiter but a 5 as a coach?
Bennett would be fantastic but I just don't see any reason why he would do that. Would have to blow him away with money.

That's easy - a 5 recruiter and 10 coach. Even an average recruiter should be able to pull in around a Top 20-25 class at Illinois just about every year. With great coaching that could make us a perennial Top 10-15 team easy.

 

[Obelix]

I agree there's more at play than just "we doubled your salary and won the auction, come on over", but you still need to have the money right to even get the coach blink twice in most cases. Once you get them to the table is where all of the other factors would come into play, but you have to be able to get the conversation started.

Illinois has always been willing to pay good and fair market value for coaches. Even in our previous search, we offered very good and fair packages to both Smart and Stevens. The reason that they did not accept, was beyond financials. Even in past successful searches, we offered very good packages to Kruger, Self, even Weber. Even when Self left for Kansas, it was not because Kansas could afford more, just that Kansas was perceived by Self as a better opportunity, more aligned with his own career aspirations.

That will also be true with the next coach at Illinois. Coaches like Bennett, Archie, Cuonzo, Marshall, etc. know that they will receive a very good (and fair) offer from Illinois (if UI decides on them). But they also know they can receive that financial offer from other schools, now or in the future, even possibly from their current school. That will not be the basis for their decision.

That is true for most high-major good programs, and truthfully, if the decision was just based on network, connections, or just money, schools like Oregon, UCLA, or OK State, would have avoided embarrassing searches and would have ended up with their top choices.

 

[illynifan34]

In light of another data point for Whitman's hirings. Add Dane Fife to the list.

I'm kidding

 

[Ga65]

If you had to choose one of these options which would you take? Scale of 1-10, 10 is the best. A coach who is a 5 as a recruiter and a 10 as a coach or a 10 as a recruiter but a 5 as a coach?
Bennett would be fantastic but I just don't see any reason why he would do that. Would have to blow him away with money.

If I am understanding correctly most people think Counzo is a 10 recruiter and a 5 coach. We still want to save the recruiting class and we need to swing for the fences for long term success.

 

[ILHoff]

That's easy - a 5 recruiter and 10 coach. Even an average recruiter should be able to pull in around a Top 20-25 class at Illinois just about every year. With great coaching that could make us a perennial Top 10-15 team easy.

That seems pretty subjective. I would assume a 5 recruiter has no chance of pulling in a top 20-25 class every year much less one year.

 

[RickBB]

We shouldn't even be comparing football hiring with basketball, but here we are.

I'm not sure if this was meant to be funny, but I laughed, until I realized how true it is...then I cried.

As an aside, and IMO, the VB hire is a home run. The Big 10 is one of, if not the, premier college VB conference. Hiring the top assistant from one of the best 3 programs in the conference who also has ties with the National sport federation all the way back from his time as a player on the mens side, who is married to another national team player who was a volunteer coach at the previous school (no idea if she will have that role at UI) is as good as it gets. In VB, I'd much rather get an assistant from a fellow big 10 school with national team ties than a head coach from any other conference, especially if they are coming from an upper echelon school.

That said, the only thing this gives a clue on as it relates to the basketball job is that Whitman will hire the best person for the job, and will work pretty quickly to do so.

 

[OrangeAndBlues]

If I am understanding correctly most people think Counzo is a 10 recruiter and a 5 coach. We still want to save the recruiting class and we need to swing for the fences for long term success.

You're speaking for too many people. Plenty of us have been very clear that the class is not that amazing. Even if it were, it's more important that we get a coach who can do something with players down the line than keeping this class together.

Winning will bring recruits on its own.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

I'm not sure if this was meant to be funny, but I laughed, until I realized how true it is...then I cried.

To be clear, that wasn't meant as a "basketball program better than football program" comment, that was meant as a "the two in terms of what you want from a coach can be very different"