Yep. I agree.
I hope you also agree that making the tournament may be a goal initially, but I want Final Fours and championships. We're sitting here with this shiny Ferrari, now we just need to find a guy that can drive it.
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Yep. I agree.
I hope you also agree that making the tournament may be a goal initially, but I want Final Fours and championships. We're sitting here with this shiny Ferrari, now we just need to find a guy that can drive it.
Yeah, getting back to the tournament every year again is the short term goal.
I see where the ceiling is for this program, it is high, and I'd rather go after a guy I think can get us closer to that ceiling than a guy who may be more likely to reach the short term but unlikely to ever get close to the long term goals. It's hard to get enough support to move on from coaches who settle into the tournament and lose in the first weekend every year, or finishes somewhere in 3-5 in conference standings annually. Both of those things sound nice compared to what we're getting now, of course.
This is where we likely diverge, because I think coaching is the difference between those short term and long term goals, and you may think it is talent. I also think this is where the Keatts v Cuonzo dispute is formed.
You know what is fantastic for hauling things towards long term goals efficiently and reliably?
Trains.
KEATTS HYPE TRAINS I defended Groce through at least a quarter...of last season. The vast majority defended him based on the injuries, but I kept seeing problems that were deeper IMO than just the loss of personnel. It's why I would be mortified if we kept him. I don't bring it up to say I told you so, I just think it's worth nothing that he's had plenty of time to prove us wrong, and it's more or less become 'settled' that his coaching inadequacies are real. It's still impressive to me what he did recruiting this year, and he's a good guy by all accounts. But our program is not relevant, and hasn't been for some time. The notion that Indiana would be interested in him is ludicrous, as is the notion that we can't do better than consistently missing the dance.
The scenario that this team turns it around, wins out or close to it, and squeaks into the tournament isn't so far-fetched that I'd say it's a done deal. But even if we catch a break, and the bubble is kind to us, it will not erase fan sentiment or lack of interest. From a strictly business viewpoint, it's not just about selling tickets, it's also about selling them at a good price. My back of the envelope figures make me believe we can easily be pulling in another million a year with a modest improvement in results. And perhaps more importantly, we're trending down, and don't really know where bottom is. It's entirely possible there's still significant downside to staying the course. As others have mentioned, there also won't be a better time to pull the plug given you'd have to do something with Groce's contract or at least pay him a previously agreed to retention bonus.
Tom Crean just called a press conference to announce that if he is fired by
Indiana and John Groce is fired from Illinois, he is still removing his name from consideration for the Illinois job
Indiana and John Groce is fired from Illinois, he is still removing his name from consideration for the Illinois job
so Whitman grew up in Lafayette. should we assume he probably/possibly grew up a Purdue fan? Should we assume he is possibly very familiar with Cuonzo's days as a player and since. Are Whitmans days playing here close to the timeframe of Cuonzos playing days? Does this long term familiarity of Cuonzo possibly give Whitman a comfort factor in hiring Cuonzo? Been watc hing Illini basketball since the Skip Thoreen days of the early 60's. So ready to see them return to respectability .Love my Illini
D
DI've lost the pulse of the rumor mill this week. Any unsubstantiated rumors floating around twitter? Any smoke?
Are we still at Monty, Cuonzo, and Keats? Archie is headed to NC State, and Tony won't come because theres more factors than the money?
Are we still at Monty, Cuonzo, and Keats? Archie is headed to NC State, and Tony won't come because theres more factors than the money?
There's not really going to be much in the way of actual rumors for a while, same old same old for a bit
It's a good argument and I understand the Keatts side. I think where I may differ from the majority on the board is that I really do believe that Cuonzo has a higher ceiling than most are giving him credit for. If he was just a hire to steady the ship I wouldn't be excited to get him. I think his recruiting potential here is off the charts and I love the way his teams play hard especially on the defensive end. I do know that if Whitman hires Keatts or anyone besides Martin I'll be 100% behind the hire.
Tom Crean just called a press conference to announce that if he is fired by
Indiana and John Groce is fired from Illinois, he is still removing his name from consideration for the Illinois job
potd
Ive spent endless hours searching for the coach who i think can bring the Illini we love back to greatness!I wanted someone young and passionate.4rs ago he was youngest head coach in div 1 history.Someone from small div 1 who would be excited to have the opportunity at a big school and put down roots.Someone who has played college ball.Someone who I think is a game changer!A poll was done asking top 10 coaches in the country (coach K, Izzo, Williams, Pitino etc)who they think will be the next top 10 great coaches to emerge and my guy was #5.He's been nominated for tons of awards and last season the team won the season title,he won NEC Coach of the Year,had the winningest season in school history and has had 4 straight double digit win seasons.What he's done at Wagner is beyond stellar.Illini's next coach should be......Bashir Mason!!
Wow Archie Miller's Flyers really know how to be composed in late game situations. Incredible last 2 minutes.
This is Whitman's first basketball hire. For those that think he's going to entertain a small school coach are insane in my opinion. Whitman will have money to spend, coaches interested, and recruiting to consider. The incoming recruiting class is a big deal and he's not going to hire some random guy who did well in an interview and has a "winning record". It's going to be someone that people positively respond to immediately, or it doesn't happen and Groce gets another year.
Agree with most of your post except the bolded portion.
Who you want, who you can get, and who actually says yes are not always the same person. I doubt there are many ADs at high-majors who sit around thinking "let me go for the random guy who did well in the interview."
Fair enough...
I'm looking at the bracketology numbers and I think S&C's last-four-in disaster scenario is more plausible than I ever realized. Obviously, we need to help ourselves to make it happen, but let's play with the idea.
Illinois sneaks into the tourney finishing 6-1, and earns a share of 6th place in the BIG. Whatever happens in the BIG tournament is enough to get us that last-four spot, maybe better. The plausibility of this has been thoroughly discussed in the other threads, but lets go with it.
What happens if Groce is willing to appropriately sacrifice one of his assistants, and convince Whitman that this guy is really the deficiency?
Is an assistant shake-up on the table? Or are we only considering wholesale changes?
Personally, I cannot imagine there is any chance where the staff is retained as is. Would Groce dump Ford, or Parham to keep his job? Is it too late for that?
The closest I've been to the Illinois basketball team is the B section, so I really have no idea how well the staff works together, or if there is a glaring weakness among them.
Ps. Sorry if this has been discussed already.
Illinois sneaks into the tourney finishing 6-1, and earns a share of 6th place in the BIG. Whatever happens in the BIG tournament is enough to get us that last-four spot, maybe better. The plausibility of this has been thoroughly discussed in the other threads, but lets go with it.
What happens if Groce is willing to appropriately sacrifice one of his assistants, and convince Whitman that this guy is really the deficiency?
Is an assistant shake-up on the table? Or are we only considering wholesale changes?
Personally, I cannot imagine there is any chance where the staff is retained as is. Would Groce dump Ford, or Parham to keep his job? Is it too late for that?
The closest I've been to the Illinois basketball team is the B section, so I really have no idea how well the staff works together, or if there is a glaring weakness among them.
Ps. Sorry if this has been discussed already.
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Our definitions of "stellar" must be different. He has an 80-66 overall record and a 50-30 record in the Northeast conference with a single NIT appearance. They are 12-11 this year and 4th in their conference. What is so attractive about him? By the way, this means he has never helped his team win the tournament title and thus securing an automatic bid. Also, Wagner went 10-20 two years ago so I guess that qualifies as a double digit win season, but not one to brag about.
I think the consensus is that the entire staff besides Walker is going to be let go. I think I speak for many others when I say that I'll be thoroughly disappointed if Groce is back on the sidelines next year for our team. I personally don't care for Ford and his invisible Canada pipeline or whatever Parham is supposed to be bringing to the table.
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Don't talk of championships when we have never one one. This program is not a Ferrari, it is more Corvette. A real nice car and the envy of a lot of people, but not at the top of the heap.
How about this...you continue on never expecting to win a championship and I'll set my sights higher?
Man, I don't know where all the Rick Barnes hate comes from, but I'd take a guy with his potential without blinking right now.
Head coaching record
Overall 633–343 (.649)
Accomplishments and honors Championships
NCAA Regional Championship - Final Four (2003)
3× Big 12 regular season championship (1999, 2006, 2008)
Big East Tournament championship (1994)
NCAA Tournament Achievements
3× Elite Eights (2003, 2006, 2008)
6× Sweet Sixteens (1997, 2002–2004, 2006, 2008)
22× NCAA Tournament Bids (1989, 1990, 1994, 1996–2012, 2014, 2015)
Haha exactly. If that was true, we wouldn't have ended up with some dummy talking about lasagna in his first press conference. There's no way Timmah came off well in his interview.
CAHALL15, do you think Fletch stays or has a choice in the matter if it comes to that?
89illinigrad
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Compared to Henson (1 final 4, 1 EE, 1 Sweet 16 and only 1 BIG championship), that's pretty impressive and we named our court after Henson.
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No hate for Barnes, but everyone has a career trajectory. His is on the way down and that is not who I want to raise up a program.
One thing we have to look at is that not every good/great coach is the right fit at Illinois. Like I said before C Martin is the right man at the right time.
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