Agree. I think Groce will be at a lower spot than that. Maybe Cleveland State with Mike Thomas.
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Agree. I think Groce will be at a lower spot than that. Maybe Cleveland State with Mike Thomas.
Don't forget about Jerry
After seeing what Whitman did with football don't be surprised to see him go the same way with hoops. I'm sure Jerry C is being consulted. Jerry is involved here in Phoenix at Grand Canyon Univ and they have done amazing things this year with Thunder Dan Majerle as their coach. Albeit it's GCU not UI but I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a ex-NBA type come on board.
After seeing what Whitman did with football don't be surprised to see him go the same way with hoops. I'm sure Jerry C is being consulted. Jerry is involved here in Phoenix at Grand Canyon Univ and they have done amazing things this year with Thunder Dan Majerle as their coach. Albeit it's GCU not UI but I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a ex-NBA type come on board.
Not even close
You may not like Lavin but don't just make things up. Failed? Five out six seasons he took UCLA to the Sweet 16. He was 10-1 in the 1st rounds at UCLA. Thirteen Nba players from UCLA and Four from St. Johns. In four full seasons at SJU he went to the postseason every year. Two NCAA and two NIT. If this is failure sign me up.
I'm not using this as an excuse to keep Groce but a buddy and I discussed a few years ago how tough it would be to recruit players to play here while the renovations were being done at State Farm Center and now that they are done, Groce lands the top class in the B1G. I know that it's Groce job to recruit but he also hasn't had a true point guard with any skill until Lucas showed up this year and immediately the offense ran better. I'm not saying give Groce another chance but it's good for thought.
The class is so overrated (or Iffy at best) - I'm amazed that people keep forwarding this narrative. As a fan base, we have given JG every chance and excuse over the years...and nothing has changed. At first, JG was given a pass bc he had to clean up the disaster of a roster Weber left - filling in with 5th year transfers and stuff. Plus, there was no PG. Then he was given a pass bc of the Snider/Alexander fiasco. Next came the injuries. And look, in isolation all of those are legit to a certain extent. But year 5 was it - experience, depth, etc. This year, there was no excuse for finishing in the bottom half of a mediocre B1G.
So here we are. Nothing has changed. We are the same mediocre team we were the last 5 years of Weber's tenure. Yet, now the excuse is the myth of the recruiting class. And if we look at it objectively:
Tilmon: Great. A big which is a huge need. But it takes most bigs at least a year to adjust. Plus, has Tilmon qualified? I'm not saying he won't, but I haven't heard he has.
Frazier: Diamond in the rough? Maybe. But still - not a top 100 guy. He'll likely be adequate and I'm happy he's in the fold, but there's no guarantee he is a PG star that can take us to the next level.
Williams: Not a top 100 guy. He was...but not now. Will he play to the potential scouts originally saw? Will he be affected by his injury? Who knows? I love having him in the fold - especially for the legacy aspect, but we can't be sure how much of an impact he'll have.
Pickett: Can he do it at this level? Again, not a top 100 guy. No guarantee he pans out.
Realistically, we hope Tilmon is legit and at least one of the other guys way outplays his ranking. But this class is no guarantee and certainly not the "home run", job saver folks are making this out to be. There's nothing to suggest this staff has the ability to develop players regularly and/or build an effective game plan/season plan to maximize roster talent. We have been mediocre for 10 years. Enough with the excuses. I like JG the person, but it's time for a change.
I don't agree with your characterization. If JW lets him go now, or Monday, and Illinois still goes to play in NIT, it has nothing to do with how much class JW has or doesn't have. It might be our preferences, but it has nothing to do with one's character.
You don't have to keep talking the class down in order to keep piling on Groce the class is very good and really meet the needs of this team. Mark Smith added to it makes it a monster class, with Smith it is top 10 if you have to go by rankings. Tillmon is a sensational big and two more real good pgs. I think all of these guys have potential to outplay the rankings, it does happen. This was a phenomenal class for a coach on the hot seat
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I like Lavin, but there is this:
http://nypost.com/2015/03/28/why-high-school-coaches-arent-sad-to-see-steve-lavin-go/
Right thing to do..
Not only is it not about character, it would even be the right and the class thing to do to let him go now.. IF you know you will anyway and still let the speculation go for a week, two, or more and even a potential 'magic run' at the NIT... that is not fair to coach or team.
Not only is it not about character, it would even be the right and the class thing to do to let him go now.. IF you know you will anyway and still let the speculation go for a week, two, or more and even a potential 'magic run' at the NIT... that is not fair to coach or team.
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
Well, I think "character" is a stronger word than what I was thinking. But what would be the advantage of canning Groce before the NIT than after? Is it better to rub salt into Groce's wounds? Which would the players prefer? Groce...or one of the assistants or...? Will Illinois' reputation be harmed by giving Groce another game or two? What's the hurry? It won't matter to the recruits. It will matter to whom? Fans?
I say finish the year with Groce.
People think this class is really great because it is really great. Of course there's never a guarantee that a really great class will pan out across the board, but that's life and we all know that. But as recruiting classes go, this is a fantastic one that is worth the hype. Your analysis is just an acknowledgement that recruit rankings are not 100% predictive of success...but that applies to every recruiting class. This recruiting class, objectively, is ranked by the 'experts' at the top of the Big Ten and that is, objectively, not a guarantee. But that doesn't change the fact that higher-ranked classes generally translate into more productive players.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
Has he ever been consulted about Illinois basketball? Having his input would be brilliant though.
Lavin is terrific as a broadcaster and I would love to get a beer with the guy, but yeah, he's a three-ring-circus and not much of a coach. Plus he left both UCLA and St. Johns in historically bad shape.
It's a bit like the Lovie comparison. Some programs need to make an exhibition of themselves. We don't. We just need to win.
The harder you look at what Majerle has done there, the less you see. They dwarf the rest of that conference in facilities and resources and talent. Pretty much every conference loss they take is a bad one, and there have been more than a few.
Yep- that's a ton of NBA talent and a bunch of teams that never went that far. Sweet 16 sounds good to us right now but if you were recruiting like Lavin and dropping out early in the tournament with rosters that have 3-5 NBA players on it every year, you'd get frustrated. His last year at UCLA, Lavin had a roster with like 4 guys that played at least awhile in the NBA. They were 10-19. And over the years, his UCLA teams gained a rep for underachieving and dropping games they should win out of nowhere.
I don't think any prep work will be needed.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Prunes may help you with that. Best of luck.
I think the general consensus is press release on Monday after JW/JG meet over the weekend. Gives JG time to meet with the team, then JW to meet with the team after JG exits.
I'm in the let him go now camp and let one of the assts coach the NIT. We need to get on with the search asap IMO.
Well dont be confused, Whitman is the only one that knows at this point. My money is on Monday, just for the 1% chance that we get a surprise NCAA bid.
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