Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2017)

[Obelix]

Who was James Augustine's influencer that pushed him to UofI?

You are trying too hard and only show your ignorance.

Ask Dee why he came to UI, and yes I do know Dee personally pretty well. Dee came to play for Self, and has mentioned it many times, despite the "developed" love for our program later on. If it was not for Self, Dee was going to MSU.

Self also landed Luther in a period when we were totally struggling and were totally boycotted in Chicago, opened a lot of doors. We landed Deron because of the relationships that Billy Gillispie had developed in Dallas. Without Gillispie, there is no Deron at UI.

Villanueva was a top 5 recruit, was not going to play for other coaching staff at UI, also due to initial close relationships in NJ (Blair Academy) of Norm Roberts, from his time in NY.

Augustine was a good player and top-100 recruit but not a major name, ended up a great players. But unless we upgrade overall talent, like 80s (I do not see you asking many questions there?) and Self, the program will remain invisible in college basketball. If you are waiting to build a program with just the occasional top-100 recruit and lower ranked recruits who can surprise, better grab a snickers. UI absolutely needs the Ayo's of the world, and we need MIF more than they need us. We have become irrelevant in college basketball, yet they are one of the best AAU programs, a showcase Nike program.

And no, again, Chin and Orlando were not brought here just for their reputation of "developing" players.

 

[Jkat00]

https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/923707183690235906

“I’ve played with [Morgan Park star and Illinois recruit Ayo Dosunmu] since I was 13, I didn’t have a problem with it,” Horton-Tucker said. “We could have done something at Illinois, I just chose a different spot.”

“I made [the decision] last night and then fifteen minutes ago too,” Horton-Tucker said “All of my choices were great. Iowa State, the deciding factor is I felt comfortable with them.”

Those are what THT said himself after the decision. It's much stronger than your "nope".

THT is a mature kid. He took the high road and didn't throw Illinois under the bus. Don't be a fool.

 

[Obelix]

https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/923707183690235906

“I’ve played with [Morgan Park star and Illinois recruit Ayo Dosunmu] since I was 13, I didn’t have a problem with it,” Horton-Tucker said. “We could have done something at Illinois, I just chose a different spot.”

“I made [the decision] last night and then fifteen minutes ago too,” Horton-Tucker said “All of my choices were great. Iowa State, the deciding factor is I felt comfortable with them.”

Those are what THT said himself after the decision. It's much stronger than your "nope".

Wait... really? He said that?

 

[Obelix]

I think blame our own staff for wrongdoing without solid evidence is what a fool is doing.

Blaming the staff is as ignorant as pretending nothing happened.

 

[Obelix]

"Something happened" has a long way to go to assert "BU pulls the rug on the commitment day"

Listen, not sure why some posters, including yourself, are making it difficult on yourselves. THT choosing ISU has very little to do with him just liking ISU more. There are reason he did not end up at UI, it has nothing to do with liking ISU more.

 

[BMo79]

https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/923707183690235906

“I’ve played with [Morgan Park star and Illinois recruit Ayo Dosunmu] since I was 13, I didn’t have a problem with it,” Horton-Tucker said. “We could have done something at Illinois, I just chose a different spot.”

“I made [the decision] last night and then fifteen minutes ago too,” Horton-Tucker said “All of my choices were great. Iowa State, the deciding factor is I felt comfortable with them.”

Those are what THT said himself after the decision. It's much stronger than your "nope".

maybe you need to take the time to read the part of the link you just sent as all your proof marked RELATED LINK: Why Simeon’s Talen Horton-Tucker didn’t wind up at Illinois

 

[sacraig]

THT chose ISU, that's what happened. For whatever reasons....

Yes, THT chose ISU. But at the time of making that choice, Illinois was no longer among the choices, and not due to THT eliminating us.

It's a really crappy situation on multiple fronts, but there was no choice here that wouldn't have looked crappy on some level. We just have to hope that the option we took was the least bad (and I think it was).

 

[BMo79]

some dont care how it happened some do, in the end it really doesnt matter much what any of us think,it is what it is and we just have to sit here and either watch and root for the team or not. I personally wanted both THT and Conditt more then AYO but we got neither and we have AYO, so as long as he signs and plays for the Illini I will root for him till of course he does something stupid and I hate him till he does something good and I like him again. The question is now who are we looking at to fill the 2 spots we still have ???

 

[BMo79]

I read the other article. He cites no fact and just lays out his story. And people in the comments session suggest to boycott illinois basketball. Boycott for a story? Wow.

LOL ok you have the right to act like you dont know what happened or want to pretend it didnt happen

this has done enough for me that I now will root for ISU as well as the Illini during Basketball as long as Conditt or THT is on there team, and I have never rooted for anyone other then the Illini in any collage sport for 50 years

again not a thing anyone here can do about any of this, but to wait and see who else we land for 18 and into the future

 

[Obelix]

Well if you know something then spill the beans! This talking in circles is for the birds and does nothing to further intelligent discourse. Perhaps you're just reading between the lines like everyone else and forming your own conclusion. I've yet to see anyone post a single thing that could even remotely be considered proof of an offer that was rescinded hours before THT's announcement. The only real substantive link given is the one a few posts up by HTT quoting THT himself. And that can be read however the reader chooses, but certainly leans in the direction of him simply choosing ISU over UI.

I do have some insights on what happened in this case, and no, I am not going to say anything. If you noticed, I have kept very quiet the last few days since the announcement was set, for good reason.

Trying to point fingers and assign blame on different parties, including Ayo and THT, or anyone for that matter is pointless in this case. Some things are what they are. People are trying to find a a "villain," but it is more dynamics in this case rather than who is at fault. Personally, as I said, I doubt it will have a negative impact (wrt recruiting) moving forward, but that is JMO.

All I will say is that some of the reporting (by analysts/writers) the last few days (since the THT announcement was set) has not been "accurate."

Let's move on!

 

[Deleted member 631370]

"Something happened" has a long way to go to assert "BU pulls the rug on the commitment day"

THT said the following: "My mom raised me to not speak out on things that are not in my control. God has a plan for everything so that’s the approach I took.”


I leave that without commentary, as I think the suggestion is pretty clear.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

BU did the right thing here.

Simeon is likely not going to have or produce the type of talent that Morgan Park has, and will continue to get.

Morgan Park and the MIF more specifically hold the keys to a lot of recruitments that we need to win such as Miller, Whitney, Okoro, Liddell, Steward.

If burning the bridge with Simeon, means getting all the top guys from Morgan Park, and the MIF. Then sign me up.

This was a smart move for the future, and I am totally behind it.

All built on the assumption that the Irvins WILL and CAN send all those kids to Illinois.

First, not every MIF kid has surrendered his free will to the Irvins. Just because Ayo came to Illinois as hoped doesn't mean every MIF kid is going to do the same. Ayo's dad is very close with Chin Coleman, correct? Is that going to be the case with Okoro? Miller? Whitney?

We're assuming that these kids are going to allow the Irvins to tell them where to go to school. That's a very risky assumption.

Secondly, do you honestly expect Irvin to send us the elite kids even if KU or UK or whoever else bends their knee to the Irvins? This assumption that the Irvins will remain loyal to us is yet another risky assumption.


We have all rightly decried the shadiness in recruiting. Rick Brunson strong-arming his kid to go to a Philly school. Longstreet sending Sherron Collins to KU. We all rightly identified adult handlers as a serious problem in recruiting. And now, here we are, celebrating it because we *think* we have a powerful handler in our corner.

I always thought the argument was "Chicago will support us when we start winning". Now, it's "we need to play the Chicago game to win".

I hate all of it. Can't blame Shaka for not taking this job for that reason.

 

[IllFanInMi]

And When The Smoke Clears

ISU, yes ISU have come to our beloved fertile recruiting grounds and taken the states 2, 3, & 4 ranked players and are smiling ear to ear. Sure ISU has been the more successful bball program recently, but seriously? It doesn't even seem possible for this to happen.

All the ones preaching patience, have faith, don't panic, BU and the staff will get done what our arrogance knows they will are running out of bullets.

 

[USandA89]

Offering scholarships is fluid

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Offering scholarships is fluid

Correct - offers can be pulled at any time. Recruits get to play things out for their best interest - that's a two way street. There is no code that says an offer must always remain on the table. If he liked UI on his official, he should have pulled the trigger. He didn't, things changed, and the opportunity was pulled. Timing of course, could have been better, but recruits know there are no guarantees. Kids change high schools, AAU teams and colleges at the drop of the hat these days for their own benefit - they should not be surprised if an interested team does the same.

 

[Illini Beer 4 All]

This board is insane. First off it is true, Underwood yanked the offer at the last minute and that is BS.

However, what was he supposed to do? Ayo and THT were the top 2 on his wishlist. He was told it's cool. He landed them both and then the scenario drastically changed.

He could either say I will not stand for this type of behavior and ruin a relationship with the biggest power brokers in Chicago hoops, and that's a fact, or make the deal. He made the right move.

The bad guys here are the Irvins. No one else. They in essence stole candy from a baby because THT made them mad by leaving their AAU team. It is also true if THT didn't leave he'd be an illini right now, but they threw a temper tantrum and hold a grudge. The joke is the Fire always has a ridiculous amount of talent and never wins crap.

The Irvins should be embarrassed. But they aren't. They're probably sitting back with cigars because they won. But if you look at it from Illinois's perspective, we really aren't after a lot of Chicago kids right now in the coming years, Underwood recruits far more nationally. He has strong ties in Florida, Antigua has ties in NY/NJ, Walker has ties in St Louis, this isn't like many past coaches where it is Chicago or bust. The Chicago guys were are after for the most part are connected to the Irvins. So again what can Underwood too.

Then the fallout out, well first off a tiny tiny minority of fans follow recruiting so most will know nothing about this. Some will hold a grudge forever, but I don't even know who the next non fire Chicago guy is right now. if that doesn't come until 2021 and we are coming off a couple of good tourney runs, does anyone care?

Simple fact is Ayo is the better recruit. He makes a splash with other recruits, he puts us on the map and has the potential to be a McD's AA. He will bring other guys to play with him. Underwood had no other choice.

You want to be mad, be mad at the Irvins. They are the ones that did this, not Ayo, not THT, not Underwood.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[TCTORNADO]

Before Adam Miller, the Khalid Whitney recruitment will be interesting.:thumb:

 

[IndyILL]

I do have some insights on what happened in this case, and no, I am not going to say anything. If you noticed, I have kept very quiet the last few days since the announcement was set, for good reason.

Trying to point fingers and assign blame on different parties, including Ayo and THT, or anyone for that matter is pointless in this case. Some things are what they are. People are trying to find a a "villain," but it is more dynamics in this case rather than who is at fault. Personally, as I said, I doubt it will have a negative impact (wrt recruiting) moving forward, but that is JMO.

All I will say is that some of the reporting (by analysts/writers) the last few days (since the THT announcement was set) has not been "accurate."

Let's move on!

THIS!!!!!!@!!

 

[Deleted member 631370]

lol. you're above it all

Well, I'm consistent. I've deplored the influence of handlers and power brokers from the beginning, and I'm not going to sing a different tune just because we have one in our corner now.

I'm not actually blaming Underwood, by the way. But I'm very disgusted with the way the Irvins can dictate terms to us, apparently.

And yet, we have some who are perfectly fine with it because that's how the game is played. That's a fair position to take. But it also means you don't get to complain when KU pulls some shady crap behind the scenes to nab the next top-10 kid out of Chicago.

Whatever position you take, fine. Just be consistent. Can't play the victim card, and then turn around the applaud our deal with the Irvins.

 

[IllFanInMi]

Correct - offers can be pulled at any time. Recruits get to play things out for their best interest - that's a two way street. There is no code that says an offer must always remain on the table. If he liked UI on his official, he should have pulled the trigger. He didn't, things changed, and the opportunity was pulled. Timing of course, could have been better, but recruits know there are no guarantees. Kids change high schools, AAU teams and colleges at the drop of the hat these days for their own benefit - they should not be surprised if an interested team does the same.

I for one am not even debating this practice, however; savvy businessmen, politicians, agents, negotiators, etc.. know when to do things with spotlights, and when to do things in the dark. It's outlandish imo to believe this was done the right way. The guys on our staff knew about the clouds surrounding the parties involved and that this scenario was possible. There are already articles about this mess for all outside of this board and no matter how you want to spin it, it's another stain on Illinois basketball. I truly believe this will hurt more than
help, but if handled correctly had the potential to accomplish the longer term goals without the stains.

BU could've accomplished his alignment/!!! kissing agenda without this getting
As far along as it did, on the down low with MAC; well before THT's change of heart became national attention (247 recruiting experts), before this board was all but convinced we locked up 1 & 2 in the state, and avoided whatever yesterday was. You can all call me crazy, but I lost some faith in the ability of this staff to navigate the local waters. I just can't find a scenario that will result in this debacle being anything but negative PR.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

This board is insane. First off it is true, Underwood yanked the offer at the last minute and that is BS.

However, what was he supposed to do? Ayo and THT were the top 2 on his wishlist. He was told it's cool. He landed them both and then the scenario drastically changed.

He could either say I will not stand for this type of behavior and ruin a relationship with the biggest power brokers in Chicago hoops, and that's a fact, or make the deal. He made the right move.

The bad guys here are the Irvins. No one else. They in essence stole candy from a baby because THT made them mad by leaving their AAU team. It is also true if THT didn't leave he'd be an illini right now, but they threw a temper tantrum and hold a grudge. The joke is the Fire always has a ridiculous amount of talent and never wins crap.

The Irvins should be embarrassed. But they aren't. They're probably sitting back with cigars because they won. But if you look at it from Illinois's perspective, we really aren't after a lot of Chicago kids right now in the coming years, Underwood recruits far more nationally. He has strong ties in Florida, Antigua has ties in NY/NJ, Walker has ties in St Louis, this isn't like many past coaches where it is Chicago or bust. The Chicago guys were are after for the most part are connected to the Irvins. So again what can Underwood too.

Then the fallout out, well first off a tiny tiny minority of fans follow recruiting so most will know nothing about this. Some will hold a grudge forever, but I don't even know who the next non fire Chicago guy is right now. if that doesn't come until 2021 and we are coming off a couple of good tourney runs, does anyone care?

Simple fact is Ayo is the better recruit. He makes a splash with other recruits, he puts us on the map and has the potential to be a McD's AA. He will bring other guys to play with him. Underwood had no other choice.

You want to be mad, be mad at the Irvins. They are the ones that did this, not Ayo, not THT, not Underwood.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Agree with most of this. The Irvins and their delicate little ego are the culprits in all of this.

That said, we don't get a free pass. It takes two to strike a deal, and we made our bed with these guys.

It's a gamble, got it. We're expecting -- naively, I'm afraid, but we'll see -- that the Irvins will send us their best. But we have to live with the gamble we made. And in this particular instance, this deal resulted in yanking a scholarship offer at the 11th hour to a great prospect (more importantly, a great kid) because the Irvins have a bone to pick with him.

So yes, Underwood does bear some of this. Whether it pays off remains to be seen.

 

[Ilieyeni]

I see it this way. I haven't read anywhere that Prohm from ISU knelt end kissed anyone's ring, and he got the #2, 3, 4 recruits in our state. Whether true or not, I have read that BU knelt and kissed a power brokers ring and got the #1 recruit and nothing else but bad PR and feelings for this 2018 recruiting class. Personally I would prefer #2, 3, and 4 every year instead of just #1 and a wink and a nod.

 

[IllFanInMi]

I see it this way. I haven't read anywhere that Prohm from ISU knelt end kissed anyone's ring, and he got the #2, 3, 4 recruits in our state. Whether true or not, I have read that BU knelt and kissed a power brokers ring and got the #1 recruit and nothing else but bad PR and feelings for this 2018 recruiting class. Personally I would prefer #2, 3, and 4 every year instead of just #1 and a wink and a nod.

Amen!

 

[IllFanInMi]

And obviously other great programs with great alignments exist, but they know how to work BEHIND THE SCENES with them. Obviously the blue bloods, and near blue bloods have more control as their destination sells itself. We look like the desperate kid who will do anything to find a date to the prom!

 

[coachk1979]

I see it this way. I haven't read anywhere that Prohm from ISU knelt end kissed anyone's ring, and he got the #2, 3, 4 recruits in our state. Whether true or not, I have read that BU knelt and kissed a power brokers ring and got the #1 recruit and nothing else but bad PR and feelings for this 2018 recruiting class. Personally I would prefer #2, 3, and 4 every year instead of just #1 and a wink and a nod.

If everything could be that easy that is a no brainer. But it is not that easy.