Agreed. Smith had the ball in his hands plenty enough times to show what he could do with it. This idea that the coaching staff sold him on one thing and immediately went against that is ridiculous.
Mark Smith transferring from Illinois
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I think the staff -- and everybody on this Board and everywhere else -- expected Mark Smith to win the starting point guard spot ahead of Trent Frazier. Smith was the far more heralded recruit with 9 assists per game in high school. Smith had the opportunity as promised, and I see no evidence whatsoever that the staff ever misled him.
haasi
- New York
I think you guys are arguing against me but I can’t tell. Are you? I’m not suggesting the coaches promised one thing and immediately went back. I’m just suggesting that they recruited him on premise of playing w ball in his hands, and clearly he couldn’t do it. So draw conclusions you’d like- coaches willing to promise things knowing they might be overly optimistic, coaches knowing he couldn’t do it day 1 but hoping he’d grow into role, or coaches simply not evaluating him correctly. I think the eval probably wasn’t done well enough, plus a certain measure of desperation. Nothing out of the ordinary for recruiting, just a bad outcome. It happens. Usually better to tell smith he can do something he maybe can’t and see what happens than to take a conservative line recruiting and not get him at all. Just saying that recruiting this way not without its risks.
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Deleted member 16068
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...lowing-transfers-teaches-players-how-to-quit/
Interesting read in the wake of Smith Transfer and other POSSIBLE transfers???
Interesting read in the wake of Smith Transfer and other POSSIBLE transfers???
Think it's another poster...
I dont think a coach who is on his 3rd team in 6 years has a leg to stand on in this argument.
Deleted member 29907
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Not sure I see it - Yes - told he was a PG - he is, just not the best 1 or 2 on this team. I am not sure any of us saw TF blowing up like he did - and I am guessing the reason they picked Illinois is they did their due diligence and saw the highest odds of becoming the #1 PG. TF saw that as a challenge and took it to everyone.
Deleted member 29907
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Yeah, this is being taught way before college. Kids change their high schools constantly to get either on 'the' team or to a starting slot. Parents renting apartments to get in a district, re-classing, etc. Its WAY out of control well before college and the parents with dreams of my little boy becoming a star is what is driving it all. Happens in middle school too. We are teaching our kids to quit, or that sports are more important than the potentially better school for education.
I am sure Underwood still thinks Smith can grow into a lead guard. Mark just decided he didn’t want to wait and put the work in at Illinois and see if it happens. I am sure Mark will put the work in and maybe get there. I am guessing he will transfer somewhere that he can be that lead guard right away and learn on the job. That’s not a knock it’s just what he decided. What’s really a bad look for Brad is telling other players on your roster that Marks going to have the ball in his hands even though you are clearly better in that role today.
3 point girl
- texas
On what basis do you think he will be a very good player. We sure didnt see any this year. I think BU gave him every chance possible to succeed. If you cant put the ball in the basket or play defense then the BIG is not for you.
Mark did look more comfortable with the ball in his hands but don't think he has the quickness to play in BU's system. Believe he could play for NW or Wi. Just don't understand why they didn't see this in recruiting. Wonder if it was more important from a PR standpoint to get Mr. basketball. Either way best of luck to Mark.
I think it is fair to say that the modern college game has passed Tubby by.
The discussions regarding what promises were made. etc., seem silly to me. To begin with, I wasn’t there so I don’t know what passed between the parties; I have a sneaking suspicion no one here does either.
But regardless. It seems to me that any such “promise” is with the implicit understanding that “things work out.” No one promises that "you have the job" regardless of results. (And how would teammates like that ?) What you are promised is a fair chance. You can hire someone to head up one of your stores and promise them a free hand at managing. But if the person can’t handle the job or someone else shows themself to be more capable, you replace the person — everyone understands that. You “break your promise” only if you don’t give the person you “promised” a fair chance at success. But once they’ve been given a fair chance, all bets — or promises — are off.
But regardless. It seems to me that any such “promise” is with the implicit understanding that “things work out.” No one promises that "you have the job" regardless of results. (And how would teammates like that ?) What you are promised is a fair chance. You can hire someone to head up one of your stores and promise them a free hand at managing. But if the person can’t handle the job or someone else shows themself to be more capable, you replace the person — everyone understands that. You “break your promise” only if you don’t give the person you “promised” a fair chance at success. But once they’ve been given a fair chance, all bets — or promises — are off.
The Dave
- CA
I agree in so far as that some of our best lineups had both Frazier and Lucas on the floor together. That's based solely on my "eye test" not any advanced metrics.
pruman91
- interviewing new NL's daily....I really really am
+ 1000000000
Unfortunately, neither does your comment. Tubby was fired from Minnesota, so not his fault. He then coached three years at Texas Tech, which is a respectable length of time for any profession, coaching or not. He's now been at Memphis for two years.Every job he's left willingly has been for a clearly better job. The only knock you could possibly put on him is leaving Georgia after two years, but he turned that into a national championsip at UK the next year. Tubby has had 6 head coaching jobs in 27 years, and two of those he was fired from. That's an average of 4.5 years per job. I'd consider that to be very respectable for a head coach.
He was offered by Calapari and Izzo as well. Think those guys play in a slow down system? In HS you are bigger, stronger and faster than 99% of your competition if you're a D1 athlete. Guess what, that goes away in college for the vast majority of players. You can't always tell what's going to happen on a college floor.
Obviously the answer is on the basis of his HS career. Remember, Luther Head and Kendall Gill, among many others, did squat their freshmen year. Everyone isn't the same in their development. He may take more time than others do. I think he could've panned out here, I just don't think it would ever have been as a PG.
pruman91
- interviewing new NL's daily....I really really am
and if he had the season there that he had here he would be transferring from them also....He will do well at a mid major like SIU or SIU-E...
and a player should have the same choice to leave for what he views as a better situation for him without being told hes quitter.
Illini_1979
- Oregon
I heard that Coach Patton was a b*tch to play for...
Dren1
- Glenview, IL
Even if there were PG promises made, I don't think there was necessarily an intent to deceive Smith. Underwood said he was a future PG, and that may have been the intent down the line.
Maybe so, but my response was to the poster saying I just don't understand why they didn't see that he wouldn't do well in an up tempo system. Recruiting isn't a black and white, he who has the highest rating is best type of situation.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
the amount of monday morning quarterbacking on this board is almost comical...
you have a 4, maybe 5 star, in state, Mr Basketball who's talent level is on the up-slope. He is being recruiting by some of the top programs in the country but is still considering UofI despite a coaching change. He has a body of an NBA guard at 18 years old and is a gifted athlete. His body/athleticism may not be ideally suited for your style of play, but...again...he's on the up-slope and who knows where his ceiling is. If you're that coach, you honestly wouldn't make a serious run at him? You honestly think he was that badly "mis-scouted"? Yes you recruit for you're system, etc., but coming in as late as BU did, he didn't have time for that for that cycle, imo. I think youtake a flyer on a gifted athlete and hope it works out. You know there are risks, but you have to contemplate the risk/reward.
I think BU wanted to build the program around him. I think he genuinely thought the potential was there and was likely what he said to MS. But my assumption is BU knew there were probably some risks as well. MS probably knew that too.
Just cuz it didn't work out doesn't mean someone made a mistake. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Learn your lessons if there are any to be learned, move on.
you have a 4, maybe 5 star, in state, Mr Basketball who's talent level is on the up-slope. He is being recruiting by some of the top programs in the country but is still considering UofI despite a coaching change. He has a body of an NBA guard at 18 years old and is a gifted athlete. His body/athleticism may not be ideally suited for your style of play, but...again...he's on the up-slope and who knows where his ceiling is. If you're that coach, you honestly wouldn't make a serious run at him? You honestly think he was that badly "mis-scouted"? Yes you recruit for you're system, etc., but coming in as late as BU did, he didn't have time for that for that cycle, imo. I think youtake a flyer on a gifted athlete and hope it works out. You know there are risks, but you have to contemplate the risk/reward.
I think BU wanted to build the program around him. I think he genuinely thought the potential was there and was likely what he said to MS. But my assumption is BU knew there were probably some risks as well. MS probably knew that too.
Just cuz it didn't work out doesn't mean someone made a mistake. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Learn your lessons if there are any to be learned, move on.
Maybe we were his dream school. The school he rooted for his entire life. Maybe he just thought that they would play him at pg.
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