Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July 2018)

[Hoppy2105]

There are always concerns about any school, but timing alone (this is speculation on my part since I have not talked yet to any coaches closer to this recruitment) suggests that UK is the clear leader. It is one thing to cut your list, schedule official visits. etc. It is another to all of a sudden schedule just one official visit out of the blue, especially when UK and Cal are in hot pursuit.

But isn’t this exactly what happened? He stated a few days ago he would cut his list then scheduled a visit to the best offer out there.

If he ends up not scheduling any more visits, then yeah, he’s UK bound. But as of now, he very well could just be starting the “schedule official visits” part of your two scenarios.

Having said that, I think that UK offer might be too good to pass up.

Also, the timing of the OV is critical to me. Cal doesn’t have to get him in before August since he knows we can’t have him on an OV until then. (If he sees us as his main competition) Then he takes the first weekend of August to make sure we STILL can’t jump ahead of him. Its a giant chess match at times.

 

[PtownIllini8]

I disagree it is THE premier program anymore and there have even been a few articles lately about how squid has borderline disappointed with the amount of talent he has had. That being said, I think it’ll take a miracle for us to get Whitney at this point, and I wouldn’t blame him at all if he chose UK.

A miracle...really? totally disagree, which is not saying he's ours, only that we'll be in the mix with a good chance to land him.

 

[Obelix]

Ummm, "influence" is not the same as "send." "Send" is stronger and suggests that MIF is making the decision (with an implication in many cases that MIF puts it's interest ahead of the player's interest). If "influence" is what you mean then use "influence." The point that MIF has influence is obvious and not disputed.

Ummm, I think you arguing a word with no real purpose. I do not think that when people say that "Kentucky sends players to the NBA" or that a a specific school "sends a lot of their students to Ivy league schools" means forcing players or students into something that they do not want to do. There are clear benefits for MIF to send their players to schools like UK, KU, Duke, UNC and the blue bloods (as per my statement), that does not mean that these programs are bad choices or that they are forcing players to do something that they do not want to do.

As far as the Irvins, I know them quite well. I do not believe that they are the evils that people make them out to be, but they are no angels either. You can argue all you want, but without Chin, Ayo would not end up at Illinois. That does not mean that he was forced into something beyond his will.

 

[Monte Carlo]

You mean like Chin.....?

Let us land more than just Ayo before we start comparing him to that era.

 

[Obelix]

Let us land more than just Ayo before we start comparing him to that era.

Sure, but the basketball dynamics have completely changed since then, so it would be very difficult to replicate that era just based on Chin's own efforts. I honestly believe that Chin is probably the best we can do in Chicago/Illinois right now. The rest depends not only on different dynamics/factors, but also on what what the head coach and the rest of the staff can do,.

 

[Tevo]

I think if I were a Top 20 player, given the tenuous nature of athletics with injuries, uncertain development paths, uncertain team dynamics, etc., I’d think about what school gives me the best opportunity to reach my one-year goals. When you start from the Top 20, you could legitimately expect that after another good year you could go pro, somewhere. Why worry about whether you'll end up a legend at a given school? I'd just worry about whether I can show my skills and continue to develop and get where I want to go. You can argue whether the top players will be “found” by the NBA wherever they happen to play, or whether Kentucky and Duke actually contribute to the “draftability” of their players, but you can't argue that more kids are drafted from those two schools than any other two schools. So why not put yourself in that group and take the offer when it's made?

 

[tpbradley]

Ummm, I think you arguing a word with no real purpose. I do not think that when people say that "Kentucky sends players to the NBA" or that a a specific school "sends a lot of their students to Ivy league schools" means forcing players or students into something that they do not want to do. There are clear benefits for MIF to send their players to schools like UK, KU, Duke, UNC and the blue bloods (as per my statement), that does not mean that these programs are bad choices or that they are forcing players to do something that they do not want to do.

As far as the Irvins, I know them quite well. I do not believe that they are the evils that people make them out to be, but they are no angels either. You can argue all you want, but without Chin, Ayo would not end up at Illinois. That does not mean that he was forced into something beyond his will.

I think you meant to say that Kentucky influences players to the NBA.

 

[combes]

I really think that Kahlil Whitney is a smart kid who WILL commit to UK. Choose a rebuild over the premier program in CBB? Uhh ... no.

There are builders and maintainers, as Bill Self used to say. Whitney can be the main guy at Illinois or another guy at Kentucky. It is easy to choose Kentucky. It takes the right kid to choose Illinois. We’ll see.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

I think if I were a Top 20 player, given the tenuous nature of athletics with injuries, uncertain development paths, uncertain team dynamics, etc., I’d think about what school gives me the best opportunity to reach my one-year goals. When you start from the Top 20, you could legitimately expect that after another good year you could go pro, somewhere. Why worry about whether you'll end up a legend at a given school? I'd just worry about whether I can show my skills and continue to develop and get where I want to go. You can argue whether the top players will be “found” by the NBA wherever they happen to play, or whether Kentucky and Duke actually contribute to the “draftability” of their players, but you can't argue that more kids are drafted from those two schools than any other two schools. So why not put yourself in that group and take the offer when it's made?

I agree with this. I also believe this is a reason BU has increased the difficulty of the schedule. The more Illinois is seen on national television, the more players get to "showcase" their skills to the NBA. Just a thought

 

[Obelix]

I think you meant to say that Kentucky influences players to the NBA.

LOL... all kidding aside, I do not think these players need any influence, they do want to go to the NBA coming in. Same with players want to go to Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC and the blue bloods because of the visibility of their programs and their documented ability to send players to the NBA. Same as some HS that have validated proof and have shown results sending players to some of the better and more reputable universities.

I will continue to say that "UK sends players to the NBA" and "MIF will continue to send recruits to UK, Kansas, Duke, UNC, and the blue bloods," both statements used in a positive sense for MIF, UK, Duke, etc but posters can feel free to use their own expressions and try to find the secret meaning of words.

 

[Obelix]

There are builders and maintainers, as Bill Self used to say. Whitney can be the main guy at Illinois or another guy at Kentucky. It is easy to choose Kentucky. It takes the right kid to choose Illinois. We’ll see.

I have yet to meet a top recruit who really wants to "build" a program. It is actually an oxymoron given that "building" takes some time and these guys generally look for the fastest way to the NBA paycheck, the quickest way to get out for the program to the next level.

 

[Obelix]

I agree with this. I also believe this is a reason BU has increased the difficulty of the schedule. The more Illinois is seen on national television, the more players get to "showcase" their skills to the NBA. Just a thought

Maui will be national TV, but even if Illinois surprises this year, most of the games will not be on the national TV (do not mean BTN) as TV schedules are set before the season starts. Another direct effect of the deterioration of our program is indeed the disappearance from national TV. Upgrading the schedule presents limited opportunity, but it could be a double-edge sword as we will likely be overmatched in most of those opportunities.

 

[Selfcon4]

We get our OV's back starting next week.

How many do we get back? Is it all of them? What do you get...something like 30 OVs over two years’ time? Or is it per 1 year's time?

I have heard so many things in this regard. Some say they roll off as they occurred in the past (1 at a time). Other say it is a calendar year deal and you get all of them back at the beginning of next calendar year? but if it is 2 year deal what do you get back after 1 year?

So confused.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Maui will be national TV, but even if Illinois surprises this year, most of the games will not be on the national TV (do not mean BTN) as TV schedules are set before the season starts. Another direct effect of the deterioration of our program is indeed the disappearance from national TV. Upgrading the schedule presents limited opportunity, but it could be a double-edge sword as we will likely be overmatched in most of those opportunities.

Being seen on National Television doesn't necessarily mean broadcasting the games. Even consistent highlights makes the team more seen then they are now.
And yes the team might be getting dominated but that doesn't stop the shine of an NBA talent. Lets say KWhitney comes to IL. His freshman year he has 3 or 4 posturizing dunks in games we lose. If those games are against top 25 teams, odds are that highlight is making sportscenter.

 

[t7nich]

How many do we get back? Is it all of them? What do you get...something like 30 OVs over two years’ time? Or is it per 1 year's time?

I have heard so many things in this regard. Some say they roll off as they occurred in the past (1 at a time). Other say it is a calendar year deal and you get all of them back at the beginning of next calendar year? but if it is 2 year deal what do you get back after 1 year?

So confused.

I believe they are getting 9 official visits. And that's the number they'll have to work with for a while.. how long exactly? I'm not entirely sure. My guess is they won't get more until this time next year.

 

[IlliniFanAtEIU1953]

How many do we get back? Is it all of them? What do you get...something like 30 OVs over two years’ time? Or is it per 1 year's time?

I have heard so many things in this regard. Some say they roll off as they occurred in the past (1 at a time). Other say it is a calendar year deal and you get all of them back at the beginning of next calendar year? but if it is 2 year deal what do you get back after 1 year?

So confused.

Selfcon4, I did a search on the Internet and I was able to find a website that had information about the number of official visits that a school is allowed each year and here's that info.

In Division I football, men’s and women’s basketball, and baseball, schools are only allowed to provide a certain number of official visits each year. Football is permitted 56, baseball is allowed 25, and basketball is allowed just 12. Men’s basketball must also split visits between seniors and juniors, who may now take official visits starting January 1 of their junior year. Because the schools are limited in how many visits they can provide, any official visit in those sports tends to indicate the coaches are very interested in the prospect.

Here's a link to the website where I found this information:
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/10/01/preparing-official-visits.htm

Scroll down to the paragraph that says "Not All Official Visits Are Equal" to read about this.

I also found a website that mentions when the official visits are renewed each year and here's that info.

13.6.2.6 Number of Official Visits -- Institutional Limitation. The total number of official visits a member institution may provide prospective student-athletes in the following sports on an annual basis (August 1 through July 31) shall be limited to:

Here's a link to where I found this information:
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/proposalView?id=2477

 

[IlliniFanAtEIU1953]

I just clicked on one of the links at the bottom of the article that I posted earlier about the number of official visits allowed and I found this additional information to further muddy the waters about official visits.

13.6.2.3.3 Basketball. In basketball, an institution may provide official visits to up to 24 prospective student-athletes in a rolling two-year period. A national service academy may provide official visits to up to 30 prospective student-athletes in a rolling two-year period; however, the institution shall not exceed 24 official visits prior to the initial date of the regular signing period of the National Letter of Intent of the first year in each rolling two-year period. The institution must maintain a written record of the visits provided. [D] (Adopted: 4/28/16 effective 8/1/16, Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17, 5/11/18, 5/16/18)

There's also an exception on official visits after a new head coach has been hired and here's that info.

13.6.2.3.1 Exception -- Additional Visit After Departure of Head Coach. After a new head coach is hired, an institution may finance one additional visit for a prospective student-athlete who previously received an official visit to the institution. Visits provided pursuant to this exception shall also be excluded from the limitations on the number of official visits set forth in Bylaws 13.6.2.2, 13.6.2.3.2, 13.6.2.3.3, 13.6.2.3.4 and 13.6.2.3.6. [D] (Adopted: 4/25/18, Revised: 5/11/18)

Here's the link to that additional information about the official visits:
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=40816

From this information it's my understanding that we, meaning Illinois men's basketball coaches, will have 12 official visits to give out again starting on August 1st of next week.

 

[Dan]

Underwood watching Timme, Williamson and Ramsey

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1022612025598464000

 

[UofIChE06]

Let us land more than just Ayo before we start comparing him to that era.

The OP was saying UI needs a Chicago guy.... Pretty sure that is what Chin is

 

[tpbradley]

Let us land more than just Ayo before we start comparing him to that era.

But this is what we do here. Or did you miss the 20 pages comparing the current team to the Flying Illini haha

 

[Selfcon4]

13.6.2.3.3 Basketball. In basketball, an institution may provide official visits to up to 24 prospective student-athletes in a rolling two-year period. A national service academy may provide official visits to up to 30 prospective student-athletes in a rolling two-year period; however, the institution shall not exceed 24 official visits prior to the initial date of the regular signing period of the National Letter of Intent of the first year in each rolling two-year

Thanks for the work 53!!!

I am still a bit confused by 24 visits in a rolling 2-year period deal? Are they trying to say a school gets 12 visits a year renewed all 12 in full every Aug 1st? But a school cannot do 24 OVs before the Nov signing period that year? That does not make sense...that would be a ton of OV in a 4 month period (Aug-Nov).

When they say rolling it goes back to imply that they may drop off one at a time again. So I am back to being confused...although I have hope that we may have 12 available next Wed. Yet the other poster said we would have just 9 come back next Wed???

 

[BMoreIllini]

I'm pretty sure this was visited in the spring, with someone (I apologize for not remembering who exactly) doing a ton of leg work figuring out on what date each recruit visited over the past 2 years. From what I remember, rolling means you get one back on the two year "anniversary" of when the previous visits occurred. So if we had someone visit on August 2nd, 2016, we would get a visit "back" on August 2nd, 2018. So you don't get them all back in a lump sum at the beginning of a year, but on a rolling basis over the course of the year.

Edit: Here's the list in it's original post from the April 2018 recruiting thread: (Credit goes to poster JJB)

"Permit the institution to provide up to 24 official visits in a rolling two‐year period" means a max 24 visits in any consecutive 24 month period. The 24 month period moves (rolls) as the calendar turns. I was curious and did some quick research to see where we stand with the official visit count. Based on what I could find (the dates may be off a day or two here/there), the list below looks like our last 24 official visits (note: Mark Smith never took an OV).

If it's accurate, we're tapped out on OVs until August 19, when we can have 1 OV until September 9. Then we can have 4 more OV and so on. Net result, we can have 7 OVs (through 5/31/19) for 2019 recruiting.

1. Trent Frazier (8/19/16)
2. Damonte Williams (9/9/16)
3. Jeremiah Tillmon (9/9/16)
4. Javon Pickett (9/9/16)
5. Kris Wilkes (9/9/16)
6. Abu Kigbab (9/16/16)
7. Mayan Kiir (10/7/16)
8. Greg Eboigbodin (5/31/17)
9. Matic Vessel (6/11/17)
10. Colin Castleson (9/1/17)
11.Landers Nolley (9/1/17)
12. George Conditt (9/15/17)
13. Amadou Sou (9/29/17)
14. Lukas Kisunas (10/7/17)
15. Elias Valtonen (10/10/17)
16. Ayo Dosunmu (10/10/17)
17. Talen Horton-Tucker (10/20/17)
18. Flo Thamba (12/14/17)
19. Samba Kane (3/9/18)
20. Tevian Jones (3/9/18)
21. Giorgi Bezhanishvili (3/25/18)
22. Alan Griffin (4/7/18)
23. Andres Feliz (4/8/18)
24. Bryce Golden (4/19/18)

 

[IlliniDent]

We have 9 visits available this next year.

 

[Joel Goodson]

We have 9 visits available this next year.

Hopefully, we'll get to use one of those on Whitney. Fingers crossed. 50/50 deal, lol.

 

[Kathy]

I am so excited about our team for this year, and can't wait for the season. I'll think we'll be better than most people expect.