BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
This proves to me that Bo was one of the best at identifying underrated talent and developing it. I hope BU can be half as good.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July 2018)
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Let us see more than 1 season of Underwood before you put him in the same sentence as Groce. Not fair at all. He inherited Groce's roster full of softies.
Regarding Wisky, they had a quality coach who ran a well defined offense and defense. The coach was there for years and recruited players that fit his program and schemes. Whisky typically had a well balanced and veteran laden team. They always had a great or very good starting PG and very solid back up. Their SG could hit 3s and they typically had good bigs. Not athletic, but often had one athlete on the floor. His veteran teams were discipline and often won those close games that go to the wire due to high ft percentage, low TOs, quality possessions. His players also stuck around for 3-4 years.
We can try to be the exception to the rule or try to see what has worked for Illinois basketball throughout the years. In order for a coach to have consistent success at Illinois he needs to be a good recruiter and bring in the talent. Otherwise, we can hallucinate that maybe we have the next Bo Ryan in our hands and keep on blaming chemistry, toughness, IQ, or whatever.
If you look at the history of Illinois basketball, the periods that we were consistently good (the 80s, and 2000-06), we were able to do it with talent. Since 2006, the talent level has been sub-par at Illinois to consistently compete in the B1G (with the exception of 2010-11). Illinois has had 13 McD AAs in its history, yet only one since Dee Brown (2002). That is 1 in the last 16 years. Illinois has had 8 first team B1G player selections in the 80s and 9 first team B1G player selections during 2000-06. Only 1 first team B1G player selection (DMac in 2010) since then. The talent has not been there.
The B1G is full of outstanding coaches and good recruiters, we will not be able to consistently beat them by out-systeming and out-developing them. We need to drastically upgrade the talent level, otherwise it would be more of the same... hoping that all our recruits are diamonds in the rough or dreaming that our coach may be the next Bo Ryan of college basketball.
If you look at the history of Illinois basketball, the periods that we were consistently good (the 80s, and 2000-06), we were able to do it with talent. Since 2006, the talent level has been sub-par at Illinois to consistently compete in the B1G (with the exception of 2010-11). Illinois has had 13 McD AAs in its history, yet only one since Dee Brown (2002). That is 1 in the last 16 years. Illinois has had 8 first team B1G player selections in the 80s and 9 first team B1G player selections during 2000-06. Only 1 first team B1G player selection (DMac in 2010) since then. The talent has not been there.
The B1G is full of outstanding coaches and good recruiters, we will not be able to consistently beat them by out-systeming and out-developing them. We need to drastically upgrade the talent level, otherwise it would be more of the same... hoping that all our recruits are diamonds in the rough or dreaming that our coach may be the next Bo Ryan of college basketball.
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A good start is to avoid whiffing on most of your fall recruiting targets and relying on late spring recruiting. This '18 class should be something like Ayo, Nolley, Castleton, plus a couple others. A class similar to Frazier, Damonte, Smith, and Tilmon is certainly attainable every year. Put together 3-4 classes like that and match that with a clear system and style of play.
The problem Illini have is that for some reason or another there is this wild expectation that "THEY MUST" get the top Chicago players year in and year out. The problem is that the top guys historically are 1 and done type players and if I was planning on going to NCAA for a year then bounce for the NBA...As much as I love the O&B I cant rationalize how spending a year at duke or UK would be less beneficial than heading down to champaign for a year. Bc of this expectation Illinois is recruiting on 2 fronts. They have to have a hat at the table or ppl will say they cant recruit chicago and they spend alot of freaking time making sure the cliff alexanders of the world pass over their hat for the blue bloods. On top of all that they still need to fill a roster with decent talent. So while Wisconsin doesnt have this delusional chicago pipeline it enables them to focus on just recruiting the guys they see fit and who they realistically believe they can get.
Shows that just maybe BU is on to something, meaning trying to get players for his system instead of rankings or positions....Wisky and Bo did just that recruited to the style of play...and yes maybe they just couldn't get the big names outside or inside the state as well....seems eerily similar. We just didn't have the same success with the same type of players/rankings. Let BU do his thing and lets see.
BU hasn't been "doing his thing". He missed most of his targets last fall and had to scramble like crazy to get commits late in the spring. And during that scramble he had to offer multiple guys who had no other P5 offers. This class could turn out great. But if it does that doesn't mean BU followed some master plan to perfection and targeted specific guys he wanted. Ayo is the only guy in the '18 class that BU had any interest in 10 months ago.
That's not true and the 2000-06 period that I mentioned in my post proves exactly that.
That sounds a little overcooked. The late spring recruiting scramble was driven heavily by the decisions of essentially the entire frontcourt to leave the program. So BU and staff earned some props in my book for putting together a potential "Top 25" recruiting class. Now it rests on the shoulders of the guards and wings (Ayo, Trent, Tevian, DaMonte, AJ) who should be the heart of this team to implement the pressure defense/offense and win by running the opposition into the ground.
That's a great post.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
I thought Griffin was on campus last summer, also, I thought Jones was on their radar too. Feliz was recruited by OA out of high school. The others, I have no idea. I recognize that it would have been easier and more traditional to get a good Fall class. However, I am excited to see what these players can contribute.
This is true, but it's also a bit of fun with selected endpoints. Brian Butch was a top 10 player in the country. Joe Krabbenhoft was a 5-star. Greg Stiemsma was a top 50 guy. Jon Leuer, Jared Berggren, Keaton Nankvil, Trevon Hughes, Jason Bohannon, all top 100 guys.
What Bo was a master at was identifying players that fit. Both talent-wise and culturally within the program. It very much remains to be seen whether Greg Gard has that same ability.
t7nich
- Central IL
Should start to see guys cutting lists and finding out where we stand (or don't) with some top targets. Could probably see some unofficials pretty shortly.
I'll be interested to see where we fall on Timme's list, whenever that happens. His offer list seems never ending.
TownieMatt
CU Expat
- Chicago
This is largely true. Being the state program, we're expected to be at the table for the best players the state produces. It puts us in a tough spot when kids expect to be recruited by Illinois, but aren't likely to pick us over the blue-bloods. We therefore have to spend time/energy recruiting players and hope they don't get too much attention nationally.
That being said, Chicago just isn't producing that one-and-done talent that it used to. With the rise of destination prep schools, Chicago is losing these kids to high school programs around the country. Whitney, Burnett, and likely Steward are all examples just from players we're currently recruiting. If Cliff Alexander and Jahlil Okafor we're '19 or '20 recruits, I don't think there's any chance they'd be battling each other in the CPL. They'd be playing each other on ESPNU at places Montverde or Chimade Prep.
The question for me then is how this effects our ability to recruit these kids. Do they want a chance to come back to the state and play closer to home? Have they gotten a taste for the big time and want to play at the best program they can, regardless of location? So far, it isn't really clear.
Jones and Griffin were plan G's after we struck out on Nolley, Z Griffin, Brazdeikas, DJ Stewart, Valtonen and THT. El General came about after TJL was "Creaned".
Jones is the best plan g kid ever recruited.
Agreed, it will be interesting to follow that group's careers.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
News to me. Care to elaborate?
foby
- Bonnaroo Land
Hopefully, they develop into the best Plan G duo ever recruited.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I thought that the timeline played out like TJL was "Creaned" after El General came on board.
t7nich
- Central IL
I don't think you can make that conclusion. If a guy's not happy, or doesn't buy-in or fit, it's not going to be a surprise to the staff. Don't get me wrong, the relationship works both ways nowadays --players leave, and coaches evaluate and prioritize recruits. The final timing can look one way and actually be coincidental. Can you even Crean a player you didn't recruit?
Personally, my expectations for recruiting have changed --it's a very different landscape, and guys like Trent are the exception. I do think BU will develop his own culture and identify guys, but the number of misses and the number of offers he puts out makes me doubt his recruiting is above average for a high major guy. He clearly understands the recruiting game, but some guys have charm (e.g. Self) that make them exceptional.
To me, the definition of "Creaning" is to force out an older player to open up the scholarship for a new recruit.
As I don't recall the last year we actually used all our scholarships, we have not "creaned" anyone in years.
I recognize that some people don't require the "open up a scholarship" part of the definition, but IMO it makes it a meaningless term.
As I don't recall the last year we actually used all our scholarships, we have not "creaned" anyone in years.
I recognize that some people don't require the "open up a scholarship" part of the definition, but IMO it makes it a meaningless term.
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