Missouri 79, Illinois 63 POSTGAME

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#76      
Deleted member 8632
Missing 5 free throws in a row didn't help matters in the 2nd half. Samba needs more tick for sure. Not sure Adonis matches up well with anyone. Ayo will be fine. Hate losing to Miznoz with a passion. Trent is a stud. Tyler Underwood is not. Please let Tevian off suspension soon. Wanting to see progression from the freshmen the remainder of the season. I will still watch because I like pain.
 
#77      
Deleted member 746094
Ugh...Where to start?

1-point lead with 7:43 left in the game. Then we got embarrassed.

- Ayo started off bad and got worse. Potential to be a good player at UofI is there, but anyone that was worrying about him going pro early can relax. He has A LOT to work on to be a consistent contributor on what may be the worst team in the BigTen. Kid is good in transition and average at best at every other aspect of his game. He will need at least 3 years of development to be able to play at the next level. He is an example of why AAU basketball has hurt college basketball.

- If BU is an X’s and O’s coach he needs to start digging into someone else’s playbook. I love his style, but it is obvious we don’t have the talent nor personnel to win with his offense or defense. He has been scouted and every high major coach is going to out coach him before the tip if he doesn’t change it up. Just too many obvious holes in our personnel and schemes.

- Brad playing his walk on son that brings NO upside probably already cost us a current player to be determined later and will be used against us effectively in recruiting. JW needs to step in. There is no logic or argument to it at all and is inexcusable with 3* and 4* freshmen on the bench.

- I hope all the people that were concerned with Mark Smith playing terrible got some nice tingly feeling from this game as he was a nonfactor for the most part. I didn’t see a difference from last year and quite honestly still don’t think we lost much in him transferring. Boy did JT dominate the paint. Could use him.

If we continue to get beat in the final 8 minutes by teams we can and should beat, BU’s ability to coach at this level will need to be evaluated. I want him to succeed as I like his style of play, but when the team cant find ways to win the last 6 to 8 minutes of every close game during his short tenure that is on the coach.

If we have another 10-14 win season I think the wheels fall off. And that will really suck.
 
#78      
Obelix
Obviously a huge disappointment, but Trent Frazier had one of the best performances I've seen in a BR game. Other than Frazier and Aaron Jordan, I do not think anyone else showed up, including the coaching staff.

There is no other way out of this other than a drastic turnaround in recruiting. Yet, in 2-3 days when this loss wears off a little. some fans will claim that we are on the right track, and we will definitely be a B1G contender in 2 years, or maybe 3, or 4, or 5.

On Missouri, Tilmon really showed how much we need an inside presence. His 16/12 looked rather easy. Pickett has really improved, much better player than what I saw in HS, showed good composure as a freshman, was almost perfect from the floor with 16 points, and looked very long.
 
#79      
Deleted member 380722
There are only two problems with this staff. Unfortunately those problems are they can't recruit, and they can't coach. Offense is terrible, adjustments are terrible, and to play Tyler over scholarship players is asinine. I never call for coaches to be fired in such a short time, but Underwood is not going to get this program turned around.
 
#80      
Obelix
KSmooth said:
This could be trouble before too long. Folks are going to start wondering if this isn't favoritism and Tyler isn't so good that anyone will be able to squelch that.
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It is just a motivational play to get the rest of the players playing better, wasn't that the theory not long ago?
 
#81      
NBB1979
I don't know if this is allowed (and I haven't read the comments yet) but am i alone in thinking Coach Underwood (and Tyler Underwood) are in over their heads here? I just don't know what I can point to in 40 games that makes me think we're getting better. Worse than that - i feel like we're actually getting worse.
 
#82      
IdahoIllini
bombayIllini said:
For what it is worth, Martin did say, prior to the game, that he has figured out how to beat the BU pressure D.

And, it seems like he showed it today.


I STILL think our kids do not come to play and certainly for 40 minutes. It is not BU's O/D, it is the kids that do not execute it very well for the most part. BU is known for his O/D.
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I think your first paragraph is becoming standard fare. It’s not a difficult defense to beat. Just have to pass without a lot of dribbling. Move without the ball. Gets you wide open shots.
 
#83      
Deleted member 8632
deucemu said:
Ugh...Where to start?

1-point lead with 7:43 left in the game. Then we got embarrassed.

- Ayo started off bad and got worse. Potential to be a good player at UofI is there, but anyone that was worrying about him going pro early can relax. He has A LOT to work on to be a consistent contributor on what may be the worst team in the BigTen. Kid is good in transition and average at best at every other aspect of his game. He will need at least 3 years of development to be able to play at the next level. He is an example of why AAU basketball has hurt college basketball.

- If BU is an X’s and O’s coach he needs to start digging into someone else’s playbook. I love his style, but it is obvious we don’t have the talent nor personnel to win with his offense or defense. He has been scouted and every high major coach is going to out coach him before the tip if he doesn’t change it up. Just too many obvious holes in our personnel and schemes.

- I said this a few weeks ago and got my a$$ handed to me by quite a few people. Now people are finding issue with it??? Brad playing his walk on son that brings NO upside probably already cost us a current player to be determined later and will be used against us effectively in recruiting. JW needs to step in. There is no logic or argument to it at all and is inexcusable with 3* and 4* freshmen on the bench.

- I hope all the people that were concerned with Mark Smith playing terrible got some nice tingly feeling from this game as he was a nonfactor for the most part. I didn’t see a difference from last year and quite honestly still don’t think we lost much in him transferring. Boy did JT dominate the paint. Could use him.

If we continue to get beat in the final 8 minutes by teams we can and should beat, BU’s ability to coach at this level will need to be evaluated. I want him to succeed as I like his style of play, but when the team cant find ways to win the last 6 to 8 minutes of every close game during his short tenure that is on the coach.

If we have another 10-14 win season I think the wheels fall off. And that will really suck.
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I would be ecstatic with a 14 win season at this point
 
#84      
Obelix
mattcoldagelli said:
Of all the things that burned me up about tonight, Griffin being sent out for spite minutes at the end there tops the list.
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I totally agree. I can definitely understand if Griffin did not play for some disciplinary reason, but there is absolutely no excuse getting him in the game in garbage time at the end.
 
#85      
ejam21
westms77 said:
What have you seen Ayo do that makes you think he should even start on this historically bad team
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IDK like putting up games such as 25 against Georgetown, 19 against Xavier, little things like that that NO one outside of Trent have been able to do?
2nd in team in assist, shooting 40+ from 3, averaging 12, 4, and 3. Is he setting the world on fire? no...but his statline as a freshman is nothing to scoff at and to suggest he isn't starter material on this team is downright asinine.

That being said, he was awful today
 
#86      
Berg88
Lots of thoughts that will probably come out piecemeal over the next few days, but I'll start with Underwood. I've always been under the impression that he get's at least 4 years. That's in big part due to his buyout, but also because I think that giving a coach a fourth year is almost always going to be a worthwhile risk. Give them a chance to see their own guys through to their senior year etc. After this unfortunate display, I started wondering what the situation looks like where he is gone after three years.

The hypothetical I came up with: 4 more freshman leave. Ayo (probably for the draft even though he won't be projected as a first rounder by anyone), Kane, Higgs, and Tev. With Tev gone, January decommits. The staff is left scrambling in spring for players, getting one top 200 kid and several 250+ to fill out the roster. The team of Kipper, DMW, Trent, Feliz, Giorgi, Griffin and ??? has another sub .500 year with 5-6 wins in conference. No top 100 kids signed for 2020.

Is that enough to get BU fired after three years? I think it probably is, but I'm far from certain. The thing that scares me is how no one piece of my hypothetical would surprise me that much...
 
#88      
ejam21
Obelix said:
Obviously a huge disappointment, but Trent Frazier had one of the best performances I've seen in a BR game. Other than Frazier and Aaron Jordan, I do not think anyone else showed up, including the coaching staff.

There is no other way out of this other than a drastic turnaround in recruiting. Yet, in 2-3 days when this loss wears off a little. some fans will claim that we are on the right track, and we will definitely be a B1G contender in 2 years, or maybe 3, or 4, or 5.

On Missouri, Tilmon really showed how much we need an inside presence. His 16/12 looked rather easy. Pickett has really improved, much better player than what I saw in HS, showed good composure as a freshman, was almost perfect from the floor with 16 points, and looked very long.
Click to expand...

I'd give Giorgi an Honorable mention "show up" as he did get 10 and 7 against a more talented, more experienced 5 star big in tilmon. Not bad for a guy ranked in the 300s in HS...JMO
 
#89      
Berg88
mattcoldagelli said:
Of all the things that burned me up about tonight, Griffin being sent out for spite minutes at the end there tops the list.
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100%. I've said before that I don't think any of us can fairly criticize the discipline side of things, because we simply can't have enough information. But, given that Griffin was sent out at the end, this certainly didn't look like a discipline issue, and that means I'm happy to criticize. Tyler has made 1 basket in 41 minutes for a TS% of 30 (second lowest on the team behind Adonis). Griffin has the second highest TS% on the team behind Trent. On a night when no one but Trent could buy a basket, that's the personnel decision he makes? Mind boggling.
 
#90      
Deleted member 746094
bombayIllini said:
For what it is worth, Martin did say, prior to the game, that he has figured out how to beat the BU pressure D.

And, it seems like he showed it today.


I STILL think our kids do not come to play and certainly for 40 minutes. It is not BU's O/D, it is the kids that do not execute it very well for the most part. BU is known for his O/D.
Click to expand...

He is known for his O/D at the mid-major level and then knocking off a few teams in NCAA tourneys that didn’t have time to prepare. At OSU he had to scrap his defense because they didn’t win a conference game in 6 tries.

I agree that the kids have to execute what you put in during practice, but we obviously are either missing the personnel to execute it or the coaches are doing a terrible job of instruction. We just don’t have the athletes and depth to play his style of D and I would argue it won’t work at this level because it only takes one good guard to break it down.
 
#91      
Oldhickory
Obelix said:
This board is so negative, this thread already has 2 more pages than the East Tennessee State win.
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It's just really really hard to watch countless other new coaches come into similarly bad situations around the country and still find success. The message is the same almost every year, we're so young, we just need more talent, we need better athletes, we just need one more piece... And then we get curbed stomped at the end of the game against our biggest rival in a game that means a ton
 
#92      
logjam
We don't have the personnel, and can't have injuries (Frazier) early concussed then ankle,or suspensions Tev, Ayo,Griffin, not helping guys! Plus Kipper was absent 1st 5-7 games.
 
#93      
Obelix
logjam said:
We don't have the personnel, and can't have injuries (Frazier) early concussed then ankle,or suspensions Tev, Ayo,Griffin, not helping guys! Plus Kipper was absent 1st 5-7 games.
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And then we all pause a little bit and just imagine what this game would have been like if Jontay Porter was not injured...

tenor.gif
 
#96      
LJ22
coachingillini said:
What are Ayo's strengths?
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I think he has the potential to be quick and dynamic. My point was that you take a huge recruit from Chicago who played in some big name games (Jordan Classic, state championship) and make him look lost, it projects a bad message to other kids contemplating Illinois. No one wants to go to a place that will give the perception of them getting worse from HS to college.
 
#98      
dbeverly26
I think that it’s obvious all 13 scholarship players will transfer before the second semester starts, Underwood will never land another recruit again, and he’ll adopt a dozen sons who have never played basketball before to fill out the roster. I don’t know why I think that, but if you disagree you’re just enabling Whitman’s incompetence.
 
#100      
Spoon House
I'll spare you guys having to watch that whole presser. Highlights, paraphrased:

Brad:
"We still aren't finishing games."
"It was a bad offense night outside of Trent."
"Tilmon is good."

Trent:
(after being asked if he got tired after halftime) "......" (he paused for a really long time and then gave some non-answer)
Trent sounded really, really dejected.

AJ:
"We need to hit shots."

More Brad:
"We need to have leadership on the floor... and I'll take the blame for that. That's on me." (direct quote)
(why can't this team finish games) "I wish I knew. I'd pinpoint it and stop it."
"We didn't get Giorgi the ball enough. He is scoring the ball against elite players in this country. We need to start playing through him a little bit more."
"Griffin's a guy I probably should have put in in the 1st half a little bit." (jesus)
"We can not continue to shoot 29 threes"
"Adonis is still playing himself back into top shape"
"It was a tough night for Da'monte" (this is very true)
 
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