Pregame: Illinois vs Minnesota, Wednesday, January 16th, 8:00pm CT, BTN

[bombayIllini]

Hey man, we played Michigan fairly tough, and they seem to be the CLEAR class of the league (minus Michigan State, whom I sure you were counting as our one loss going forward). Let's do this, Illini fans:

W vs. Minnesota (this one is easy, guys ... piece of cake)
W at Iowa (I'll be there, and I have a winning record in person at CHA)
W vs. Wisconsin (we have to beat them some time ... right? We have lost 13 straight vs. UW, it can't last forever!)
W vs. Maryland in New York, NY (neutral site games used to be our thing, it's time we start that up again)
W at Minnesota (already beat 'em once! Remember when we won like 23 straight vs. them in the mid-2000s?)
W vs. Nebraska (revenge, baby!)
L vs. Michigan State (okay, okay, we come back down to Earth)
W vs. Rutgers (right back off Earth with a nice win over lowly Rutgers!)
W at Ohio State (revenge for the United Center game, baby!)
W at Wisconsin (remember that time that we had won like 2 of 3 in Madison while the rest of the country was like 4 of 100? Gotta channel our history to turn this thing around, plus this is playing to be .500!)
W vs. Penn State (gotta win these types of home games if you're going to be a team that performs miracles)
W at Purdue (why stop now?)
W vs. Northwestern (revenge!!!!)
W vs. Indiana (rivalry game at home, plus our new best friend: revenge, baby!)
W at Penn State (so much will be on the line, and our guys will be FIRED UP!)

That gets us to 18-13 (14-6), if my counting is accurate. At 14-6 in the Big Ten, we will get a great seed, and we will be playing in our backyard and historic stomping grounds, the United Center. This time, we will draw a good following, as used to be our expectation in that sacred building. I am seeing at least two wins in the Big Ten Tournament, so that puts us at 19-13 with an awesome Strength of Schedule and some quality wins at Iowa, vs. Maryland (NYC), vs. Nebraska, at Ohio State, vs. Indiana, etc. It would have been nice to get to 20, but hey - we dug this hole ourselves.

I'll be sweatin' it out on Selection Sunday with the rest of you guys, but look out for the NCAA Tournament lock 2019 Fighting Illini after that wild ride.

Be very careful. Orange coolaid is one thing. Drinking orange paint is another.

 

[RSBCC13]

Try something different. Start Frazier with all Freshmen

 

[rtbritt]

Hey man, we played Michigan fairly tough, and they seem to be the CLEAR class of the league (minus Michigan State, whom I sure you were counting as our one loss going forward). Let's do this, Illini fans:

W vs. Minnesota (this one is easy, guys ... piece of cake)
W at Iowa (I'll be there, and I have a winning record in person at CHA)
W vs. Wisconsin (we have to beat them some time ... right? We have lost 13 straight vs. UW, it can't last forever!)
W vs. Maryland in New York, NY (neutral site games used to be our thing, it's time we start that up again)
W at Minnesota (already beat 'em once! Remember when we won like 23 straight vs. them in the mid-2000s?)
W vs. Nebraska (revenge, baby!)
L vs. Michigan State (okay, okay, we come back down to Earth)
W vs. Rutgers (right back off Earth with a nice win over lowly Rutgers!)
W at Ohio State (revenge for the United Center game, baby!)
W at Wisconsin (remember that time that we had won like 2 of 3 in Madison while the rest of the country was like 4 of 100? Gotta channel our history to turn this thing around, plus this is playing to be .500!)
W vs. Penn State (gotta win these types of home games if you're going to be a team that performs miracles)
W at Purdue (why stop now?)
W vs. Northwestern (revenge!!!!)
W vs. Indiana (rivalry game at home, plus our new best friend: revenge, baby!)
W at Penn State (so much will be on the line, and our guys will be FIRED UP!)

That gets us to 18-13 (14-6), if my counting is accurate. At 14-6 in the Big Ten, we will get a great seed, and we will be playing in our backyard and historic stomping grounds, the United Center. This time, we will draw a good following, as used to be our expectation in that sacred building. I am seeing at least two wins in the Big Ten Tournament, so that puts us at 19-13 with an awesome Strength of Schedule and some quality wins at Iowa, vs. Maryland (NYC), vs. Nebraska, at Ohio State, vs. Indiana, etc. It would have been nice to get to 20, but hey - we dug this hole ourselves.

I'll be sweatin' it out on Selection Sunday with the rest of you guys, but look out for the NCAA Tournament lock 2019 Fighting Illini after that wild ride.

The funny thing is....before the season, you could have made an argument that all of these games were winnable. I mean, there will definitely be people predicting we win "the next one" even when we are 0-10...

 

[BES76]

Hey man, we played Michigan fairly tough, and they seem to be the CLEAR class of the league (minus Michigan State, whom I sure you were counting as our one loss going forward). Let's do this, Illini fans:

W vs. Minnesota (this one is easy, guys ... piece of cake)
W at Iowa (I'll be there, and I have a winning record in person at CHA)
W vs. Wisconsin (we have to beat them some time ... right? We have lost 13 straight vs. UW, it can't last forever!)
W vs. Maryland in New York, NY (neutral site games used to be our thing, it's time we start that up again)
W at Minnesota (already beat 'em once! Remember when we won like 23 straight vs. them in the mid-2000s?)
W vs. Nebraska (revenge, baby!)
L vs. Michigan State (okay, okay, we come back down to Earth)
W vs. Rutgers (right back off Earth with a nice win over lowly Rutgers!)
W at Ohio State (revenge for the United Center game, baby!)
W at Wisconsin (remember that time that we had won like 2 of 3 in Madison while the rest of the country was like 4 of 100? Gotta channel our history to turn this thing around, plus this is playing to be .500!)
W vs. Penn State (gotta win these types of home games if you're going to be a team that performs miracles)
W at Purdue (why stop now?)
W vs. Northwestern (revenge!!!!)
W vs. Indiana (rivalry game at home, plus our new best friend: revenge, baby!)
W at Penn State (so much will be on the line, and our guys will be FIRED UP!)

That gets us to 18-13 (14-6), if my counting is accurate. At 14-6 in the Big Ten, we will get a great seed, and we will be playing in our backyard and historic stomping grounds, the United Center. This time, we will draw a good following, as used to be our expectation in that sacred building. I am seeing at least two wins in the Big Ten Tournament, so that puts us at 19-13 with an awesome Strength of Schedule and some quality wins at Iowa, vs. Maryland (NYC), vs. Nebraska, at Ohio State, vs. Indiana, etc. It would have been nice to get to 20, but hey - we dug this hole ourselves.

I'll be sweatin' it out on Selection Sunday with the rest of you guys, but look out for the NCAA Tournament lock 2019 Fighting Illini after that wild ride.

What!?! We only need to win 5 more games to make March Madness ... 14th seed in the Big 10, win out!

 

[Truffaut]

It is sad, but my idea of a wildly successful season is one in which the Illini do not play on Wednesday in the B1G Tournament.

 

[TCTORNADO]

It is sad, but my idea of a wildly successful season is one in which the Illini do not play on Wednesday in the B1G Tournament.

Nor Thursday.

 

[bert1991]

Last year Jordan Murphy killed us with 17pts/17reb. We'll contain him to 15/15 this time around. Improvement.

For a second there, I thought you said 17 rebounds

 

[pruman91]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/col...cle_10d7026a-da0f-5ec7-94aa-7da8de50bba1.html

Frankly, no one has been able to guard Dosunmu, the star freshman on the Illinois basketball team. He’s averaging 13.6 points this season and has been on fire in his last four games, averaging 20.5 points and 5.8 rebounds.

“I would be hard-challenged to find any player in the country who in every aspect of the game is playing any better,” Illinois coach Brad Underwood said. “... Starting from ground zero as a freshman and looking where he’s at now.”

Getting a win against Minnesota is going to come down to rebounding. The Gophers dominate on the glass, ranking 44th in the country in rebounds per game with 39.44 and 22nd in offensive rebounds per game with 13.44. According to KenPom, Minnesota is 21st in the nation in offensive rebounding percentage.

At the heart of that are big men Jordan Murphy, who averages 12.1 boards, and freshman Daniel Oturu, who averages 7.8 rebounds, with 3.25 of them coming on the offensive glass.

 

[Ga65]

How about starting Adonis or Samba in place of Aaron to offset their size? May cause some fouls on their bigs if we attack the paint.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

How about starting Adonis or Samba in place of Aaron to offset their size? May cause some fouls on their bigs if we attack the paint.

May not start, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Giorgi and Adonis in at the same time assuming Giorgi can stay out of foul trouble in the first 5 mins.

 

[ChocolateThunder]

Illini getting 2.5 points. Looking for reason to take the points???

Minn averages 75.3 points per contest this season, which ranks them 144th.

Illini averages 73.1 points game ranked 198th.

Minn shooting at 44% as a team ranked 207th.

Illini shooting at 43% ranked 259th

Minn shoots 33% from 3 point range which is 256th.

Ilini shoot 35% from 3-point range, which is 161st.

Minn average 39.4 rebounds per game and 15.8 assists per game, which ranks 43rd and 54th.

Illini average 33.8 boards per game and 14.5 assists per game which ranks 288th and 140th.

Minn ranks 239th with 12.7 turnovers.

The Illini are 91st in turnovers per game with 14.5

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

The funny thing is....before the season, you could have made an argument that all of these games were winnable. I mean, there will definitely be people predicting we win "the next one" even when we are 0-10...

As I was typing those out, that became depressingly clear ... Michigan State is the only one that should - on paper - be a near-insurmountable challenge, IMO. Alas, we have not really proven that we can beat anyone decent (or anyone in the Big Ten). I do, however, think we will continue to improve (not really a hot take, considering how bad we have started), and I see this as a realistic but very optimistic way we could end this thing out with some hope for next year:

W vs. Minnesota
W at Iowa (like I said, I have a winning record at CHA and I'll be there!)
W vs. Wisconsin
L vs. Maryland (New York, NY)
L at Minnesota
L vs. Nebraska
L vs. Michigan State
W vs. Rutgers
L at Ohio State
L at Wisconsin
W vs. Penn State
L at Purdue
W vs. Northwestern
W at Penn State
W vs. TBD in BTT (Chicago, IL)
L vs. TBD in BTT (Chicago, IL)

That would be a 8-8 finish to a season that we started 4-12, with the .500 stretch being vs. consistently tougher teams. All things considered, that would leave me very hopeful for next year.

 

[PlayAZ]

W vs. Minnesota
L at Iowa (they are playing well right now and have guards and a dominate wing/inside)
W vs. Wisconsin (could easily be the other way)
L vs. Maryland
L at Minnesota
L vs. Nebraska
L vs. Michigan State
W vs. Rutgers
W at Ohio State
L at Wisconsin
W vs. Penn State
L at Purdue
W vs. Northwestern
W at Penn State
W vs. TBD in BTT (Chicago, IL)
L vs. TBD in BTT (Chicago, IL)

Could also see us winning potentially 2-3 more or losing 4-5 as well? Tis the season, next year much different!

 

[danbor]

I don't EXPECT them to win any games. But I'm still watching and hoping, because I really like this team and I'm obviously a dedicated fan. I remember prior Illini teams that were much more talented, but I liked less. Maybe I'm making it up, but this group seems like they have so much fight in them that I don't mind the losses as much.

I mean at this point their W/L record is going to be poor no matter what happens, so counting up hypothetical future wins and losses just seems like a mental exercise in not winding up in last place.

So, for me each game is just one more chance for them not finish last!

 

[illinipioneer]

Was confused by his statement on not having a decent big man. Georgi? Not considered big or not considered decent?

Seemed to be referring to overall size IMO, talking about how when he came in as a freshmen he didn't play much due to having to go up against larger and more talented competition

 

[ChiefIllini]

How poorly does Tevian have to play for people to stop wanting him to get 20+ mins per game? I think he's a great talent, it's painfully obvious he isn't up to speed. I know people think more PT will magically cure all that ails his game, but theres a lot more than that to it.

Dont get me wrong, I think an uptick in minutes would be good, but this team deserves the best chance to win every night, TJ for more than 10 minutes is not the answer to that.

 

[The Dave]

How poorly does Tevian have to play for people to stop wanting him to get 20+ mins per game? I think he's a great talent, it's painfully obvious he isn't up to speed. I know people think more PT will magically cure all that ails his game, but theres a lot more than that to it.

Dont get me wrong, I think an uptick in minutes would be good, but this team deserves the best chance to win every night, TJ for more than 10 minutes is not the answer to that.

Look at the improvement in Ayo with playing time. Remember when Nunn and Hill got playing time as a freshman once Groce gave up on the season and the improvement they showed? I think at this point there is actually a pretty good argument for playing the freshmen. They game doesn't slow down for you while sitting on the bench.

The season is gone from a tourney perspective. Start prepping for next year even if it means more losses than by playing a theoretical "optimal" lineup/rotation.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Any word from Underwood on how Ayo compares to Jason Kidd.??

Yes, Wood says they are both are good and they both play guard.

 

[BMoreIllini]

Look at the improvement in Ayo with playing time. Remember when Nunn and Hill got playing time as a freshman once Groce gave up on the season and the improvement they showed? I think at this point there is actually a pretty good argument for playing the freshmen. They game doesn't slow down for you while sitting on the bench.

The season is gone from a tourney perspective. Start prepping for next year even if it means more losses than by playing a theoretical "optimal" lineup/rotation.

Why do people think players only make progress with playing time? Game time isn't the time for them to learn, that's what practice is for. Ayo's BB IQ is really high, I'm guessing he caught on to the schemes/system quickly. Not everyone learns at the same pace. If Tevian's issues somehow were caused by lack of playing time I'd agree, but it's obvious he isn't up to speed yet. Let him learn in practice and don't destroy his confidence by throwing him out there for 20 minutes a game only to get blown by on defense or turn the ball over on offense. I think TJ will be a great player for us eventually, but playing him unnecessarily now not only hurts our chances for W's in the short term, but you don't know how it could affect him long term. Once TJ is more comfortable and has learned the systems/schemes, then he can have more game time and grow that way.

 

[Calvin]

Why do people think players only make progress with playing time? Game time isn't the time for them to learn, that's what practice is for.

Nothing like meaningful minutes in a game. Boosts confidence, and all the little things guys don't do in practice come out in games. There is no substitute for most players. It's a different mental space, and the one that really matters --practice is simply a way to support it.

This is not an argument for giving a player tick they shouldn't get, but it's an important part of their development. I fully respect that a player who can't run the plays, turns it over, or has bad habits that need work, can disrupt the team.

 

[WizardBill]

Nothing like meaningful minutes in a game. Boosts confidence, and all the little things guys don't do in practice come out in games. There is no substitute for most players. It's a different mental space, and the one that really matters --practice is simply a way to support it.

This is not an argument for giving a player tick they shouldn't get, but it's an important part of their development. I fully respect that a player who can't run the plays, turns it over, or has bad habits that need work, can disrupt the team.

Except, it can also completely destroy a player’s confidence if they aren’t ready for increased playing time.

 

[BMoreIllini]

Nothing like meaningful minutes in a game. Boosts confidence, and all the little things guys don't do in practice come out in games. There is no substitute for most players. It's a different mental space, and the one that really matters --practice is simply a way to support it.

In a general sense, I agree completely, there is no substitute and you can't replicate what it's like to play in a game in practice, however, I feel like a player needs to be far enough along to gain something meaningful from playing in a game. I just don't know if some of the players that posters are calling for are at that point yet. Another poster said this before, but what about the development of the other players playing with them in the game? Does their negative impact on the floor negatively affect the other players progress? I believe it could. For example, the players who are learning are going to learn more in games playing along side AJ than they are TJ. At least that's my uneducated opinion.

 

[skyIdub]

Some you crack me up! Seriously. We are lucky....lucky...to have two freshman contributing at a VERY high level (even in B1G play!).....and we are 4-12.
What on scorched earth do you think would happen if we just tossed all the freshman to the wolves for 20mpg when they aren't ready? Good grief man.
Go back and make a list of Illini freshman in the last 10 years that contributed enough to warrant 20mpg.

I think the outstanding growth of Giorgi and the obvious talent of Ayo, on top of what Frazier did last year has some people thinking that it just works out.
Silliness. TJ isn't ready for 20mpg. Griffin is getting closer. I believe they will be good sophs. The coaches are doing their jobs.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

The problem is that we haven't had any 'easier' games where we can afford to work in some of our 'less ready' freshman. If we were up by 10-15 or so against anyone, we could get them more time without risking a loss.

 

[The Dave]

I'm not saying bench everyone that's a JR or SR and play the freshmen all 40 minutes. What I am saying is that here are the minutes Tevian, Alan, and Samba have gotten the last 3 games (IND, NW, MICH):

Tevian: 0, 4, 2
Alan: 7, 3, 3
Samba: 0, 2, 0

Now, I realize Tevian had been on suspension and he's less ready than the other guys. But take that out and this is still not the way to develop players. It's not like playing KN and ADLR, and AJ is leading to a bag full of wins. Let the young guys play. Let them learn the flow and the speed. Is there a possible downside (ruins their confidence)? Sure, but there is also upside. Trial by fire. You get better by playing against players better than you, not by running through the motions in practice.

Scrimmage this, scrimmage that. If you've ever played before, it's different doing a live game against opponents that want your head, in front of a huge crowd (well maybe not HUGE at the SFC these days). Give these guys an uptick in minutes. Let them get their "sea legs".

Again, I'm NOT saying play them 40 and bench the "old guys". Just let them get some meaningful experience. And (again) this is based on where we are now in the season. I wouldn't have supported it the first week of December.