Cardinals Hot Stove

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#127      
FollowTisdale
Illwinsagain said:
Per MLB trade rumors, and Morosi, names are being exchanged. We'll see, the article mentions Carp as a possible piece. I would have to include him.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/rockies-cardinals-exchanging-names-in-arenado-talks.html
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Passan - "exchange of names not productive"

Follow up, doesn't sound like its going to head anywhere. The Rockies have never been a rational trade partner. This deal should be like Hudson and lower level minor league lottery tickets like Jhon Torres and Luken Baker due to Arenado's contract, comparable to the return Stanton brought. But the Rockies are going to want real prospects (like Gorman and Liberatore) without holding any of that contract back.

If they were able to include Carpenter for salary relief, then maybe that gets the package to Hudson and like Knizner or Liberatore. But that involves both A) Carpenter waiving his no trade clause to play for a crappy Rockies team and B) the Rockies being somewhat rational and getting a bad contract in return.

I just don't see this happening at all. The Rockies never should have signed him to that contract, both the total dollars AND the opt out makes him impossible to trade.
 
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#129      
hermie1985
I think Arenado will be our starting third baseman on opening day. A case of where there is smoke there is fire. Of course it could go south but it just feels like the Cards are trying to put the pieces together.
 
#133      
wpr
hermie1985 said:
Rockies saying Arenado won’t be traded.
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Rocks wanting a king's ransom in return. It won't happen so they are withdrawing the offer of trading him. From a corporate level it makes sense. If you don't get what you want in return, just keep him.
 
#134      
the national
wpr said:
Rocks wanting a king's ransom in return. It won't happen so they are withdrawing the offer of trading him. From a corporate level it makes sense. If you don't get what you want in return, just keep him.
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What a bungled mess. The rockier upper management eventually does this to all their great players, tulo being another who wasn’t well taken care of. Nolan is a pretty reasonable guy and like Denver but the management there are awful. The cardinals probably can make what the Rox want happen, happen.
 
#138      
hermie1985
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
So we all in for a Lane Thomas-Harrison Bader-Dexter Fowler OF this season?
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Got a draft pick for Ozuna. Can sign the kid from the Cubs without giving one up. I am ok looking at the internal options. Suppose to be deep in outfielders and will probably find out sooner than later.
 
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#139      
FollowTisdale
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
So we all in for a Lane Thomas-Harrison Bader-Dexter Fowler OF this season?
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Dylan Carlson will be up in mid April (or maybe out of Spring Training) and they obviously want him to have a starting job. O'Neill will be competing with Thomas in Spring Training, and hopefully whoever wins that will take over for Fowler in RF when Carlson comes up.

I really don't understand it, it seems like Ozuna on a 1 year deal was ideal. They must really like O'Neill (I really don't think Lane Thomas has much potential past 4th OF kind of guy).
 
#140      
hermie1985
The market on Ozuna wasn’t very strong and basically equal to the QO from the Cardinals. I’m assuming all clubs valued him about the same.
Mo was hoping to have gotten an All Star in Ozuna and it just didn’t work out. Im still pretty disgusted that Brewers got Yelich after Cardinals told he wasn’t available.
I do think the front office is planning on Carlson sooner than later so didn’t want to block him with a more expensive Ozuna.
 
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#142      
FollowTisdale
whatahack said:
Don't forget about Edman too...he has to be in there somewhere
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Edman's the insurance for Carpenter at 3rd/ heavy RH platoon guy for both Carpenter & Wong on the infield. Very easy to find him 500 PAs just doing that. With the OF's they have in the org, they probably shouldn't be playing him in the OF at all.
 
#143      
hermie1985
FollowTisdale said:
Edman's the insurance for Carpenter at 3rd/ heavy RH platoon guy for both Carpenter & Wong on the infield. Very easy to find him 500 PAs just doing that. With the OF's they have in the org, they probably shouldn't be playing him in the OF at all.
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At Short stop too. DeJong faded down the stretch.
 
#144      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Cardinals re-sign Matt Wieters to a one-year deal. $2 million. If the Cardinals decide to carry 3 catchers on their 26 man roster, there's some talk that they may use him as a pinch hitter, especially from the left side which is his stronger hitting side.
 
#145      
hermie1985
So Cards ranked bottom 1/3 in offense. Where will we find upgrades? Carp and Goldy probably do a little better. Wong could regress back to his lifetime averages (hope not). Thr Cards are looking for youth in the outfield to boost offense. Mostly the Cards are looking to Albert to get more out of everybody. Is anybody really confident that the Cardinals will improve to say the top 1/3? I’m not buying that the Cardinals can be done. While I think we can compete for a WC or hope the Cubs stumble , this is not a play-off roster. I give us a generous C+ for the off season so far. Basically we picked up some pitching in KK and a top prospect in Liberatore.
 
#146      
the national
hermie1985 said:
So Cards ranked bottom 1/3 in offense. Where will we find upgrades? Carp and Goldy probably do a little better. Wong could regress back to his lifetime averages (hope not). Thr Cards are looking for youth in the outfield to boost offense. Mostly the Cards are looking to Albert to get more out of everybody. Is anybody really confident that the Cardinals will improve to say the top 1/3? I’m not buying that the Cardinals can be done. While I think we can compete for a WC or hope the Cubs stumble , this is not a play-off roster. I give us a generous C+ for the off season so far. Basically we picked up some pitching in KK and a top prospect in Liberatore.
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I really wonder how good these outfield prospects really are. They have cleared the way for opportunities by not resigning Ozuna and trading Martinez. They are so bullish it makes me wonder. When was the last time the front office was THIS confident in our prospect talent? I’m in no way saying I’m happy with this off-season but it just seems way out of character for the staff to basically give the keys to the outfield in prospects.
 
#147      
FollowTisdale
hermie1985 said:
So Cards ranked bottom 1/3 in offense. Where will we find upgrades? Carp and Goldy probably do a little better. Wong could regress back to his lifetime averages (hope not). Thr Cards are looking for youth in the outfield to boost offense. Mostly the Cards are looking to Albert to get more out of everybody. Is anybody really confident that the Cardinals will improve to say the top 1/3? I’m not buying that the Cardinals can be done. While I think we can compete for a WC or hope the Cubs stumble , this is not a play-off roster. I give us a generous C+ for the off season so far. Basically we picked up some pitching in KK and a top prospect in Liberatore.
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Carpenter literally can't hit worse or he won't be playing. Seeings as he was a top 10 hitter in the league in 2018, I'm willing to bet he's got some kind of bounce back coming. If you took his terrible April and most of May away, Goldschmidt was same old Goldschmidt, so hopefully he can be a little more consistent to start the year.

Wong last year hit exactly as good as he did in 2017, and only slightly better than 2018, he's been a pretty consistent slightly above league average hitter with amazing defense, which is a really good player. Last year was also only the first time since 2015 he got over 500 PAs, because Matheny was an idiot.

Cardinals had the 8th ranked offense in the NL, smack dab in the middle (not bottom 3rd). We saw Carpenter and Goldschmidts downside last year, and theres so much upside in Bader, O'Neill, Carlson, and even DeJong that I highly doubt they'll be anywhere but top 5 in the NL this year. With the amazing defense (which will likely be even better this year) and good pitching, that's a low 90s, easy playoff spot team.
 
#148      
hermie1985
MLB Network keeps saying we were bottom 1/3 in most offensive categories. I’m not going to argue it because I don’t have the stats to back it up. On Wong, it was probably the FOX Midwest team bragging about his year because he was a bright spot.

I agree that the FO must see something in their outfield prospects. It scares me though to bet on them. I’ve lost faith in Bader on offense. I watch Carp stretch his lower back each time he steps into the box. I think he plays in pain and that’s no good.

Mo has said to be patient and I take that to mean he’s not done. DeWitt has said we are at the spending limit. That puts Mo in a pickle. Who’s taking Dexter or Carp? I think that leaves Wong as our only trade bait from the starting roster. Some are suggesting Carlos. All I know is we need another All Star middle of the order hitter to go up against contenders.
 
#149      
FollowTisdale
hermie1985 said:
MLB Network keeps saying we were bottom 1/3 in most offensive categories. I’m not going to argue it because I don’t have the stats to back it up. On Wong, it was probably the FOX Midwest team bragging about his year because he was a bright spot.

I agree that the FO must see something in their outfield prospects. It scares me though to bet on them. I’ve lost faith in Bader on offense. I watch Carp stretch his lower back each time he steps into the box. I think he plays in pain and that’s no good.

Mo has said to be patient and I take that to mean he’s not done. DeWitt has said we are at the spending limit. That puts Mo in a pickle. Who’s taking Dexter or Carp? I think that leaves Wong as our only trade bait from the starting roster. Some are suggesting Carlos. All I know is we need another All Star middle of the order hitter to go up against contenders.
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Bader is a better hitter than Omar Vizquel, and he got HOF votes! That's obviously not a fair comparison, but Bader is an amazing defender, he really doesn't have to hit that well to be an above average player overall, and really he's not even that bad of a hitter that it really merits discussion.

Carpenter was hurt last year. I really think we'll know by the end of Spring Training if he's healthy or not. If he's healthy, there's no reason to think he won't go right back to being a well above average hitter; his ability to take a walk and spray doubles are hitting skills that usually age gracefully.

I'm like 99% sure, barring major spring training injury, the roster the Cardinals have now is the one they're opening the year with. The payroll being where it's at allows them to be active at the deadline though, which is when the Rockies might be a little more rational about Arenado.
 
#150      
Illwinsagain
FollowTisdale said:
Bader is a better hitter than Omar Vizquel, and he got HOF votes! That's obviously not a fair comparison, but Bader is an amazing defender, he really doesn't have to hit that well to be an above average player overall, and really he's not even that bad of a hitter that it really merits discussion.

Carpenter was hurt last year. I really think we'll know by the end of Spring Training if he's healthy or not. If he's healthy, there's no reason to think he won't go right back to being a well above average hitter; his ability to take a walk and spray doubles are hitting skills that usually age gracefully.

I'm like 99% sure, barring major spring training injury, the roster the Cardinals have now is the one they're opening the year with. The payroll being where it's at allows them to be active at the deadline though, which is when the Rockies might be a little more rational about Arenado.
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I really hope you are right. I am not as confident.
 
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