Illinois 73, Ohio State 68 Postgame

#351      
it’s likely time for Belo to be starting- he was our best player yesterday and the offense is noticeably different the last few games when he’s in there. Having him on the floor with Kofi is our best offensive lineup

Miller has been good on defense and adds good elements to the offense - but come tourny time we really can’t afford to be playing our second best lineup from the start. He and Frazier are playing similar roles now with Ayo back which is spot up 3 and D- and we need Frazier’s on ball D more

Im sure BU will be reluctant to make changes to the lineup- but it’s not time to be worrying about egos
Disagree completely. There is zero reason to change Belo’s role that he is absolutely excelling in now. He’s still playing 25 minutes a game so the “starter” label really doesn’t matter anyways.
 
#352      
Did you ever see Deron Williams or Frankie Williams. Ayo is elite but he's not head and shoulders above every player we've ever had.

And that's no slam. Deron was a #3 overall draft pick and the floor general for a national runner up. Scored all but a couple buckets in one of the great all-time comebacks in NCAA tournament history, as well as the shot that tied it up to go to OT. Frankie was legendary as well.

Both those guys could take control of games, and going back you had amazing talent with Nick Anderson, Kendall etc.
 
#354      

AirNeezy

Orange Krush '13 -'14
And that's no slam. Deron was a #3 overall draft pick and the floor general for a national runner up. Scored all but a couple buckets in one of the great all-time comebacks in NCAA tournament history, as well as the shot that tied it up to go to OT. Frankie was legendary as well.

Both those guys could take control of games, and going back you had amazing talent with Nick Anderson, Kendall etc.
Deron is my favorite player of all time. But the sheer number of games that Ayo has made the winning play/basket puts him over the top in terms of clutchness.
 
#355      

illini55

The Villages, FL
Ayo is honestly the most clutch player we will ever see don the Orange and Blue. Full stop. We are so lucky to have this kid.

Also, get ready for First Team All B1G Curbelo next year. It's happening
So young. Every era has its own heroes. Weatherspoon, Harper, Brown, Williams come immediately to mind. I'm not quite old enough to go any farther back.
 
#357      

Deleted member 186590

D
Guest
Disagree completely. There is zero reason to change Belo’s role that he is absolutely excelling in now. He’s still playing 25 minutes a game so the “starter” label really doesn’t matter anyways.
I hear you- but Belo’s role has already changed - it’s not like we’ve had the same lineup or even rotation during our current run given Ayo being out. Yesterday, Belo played 29 min and ran the offense even with Ayo in the game. He had 19 points on 8 shots with 6 and 5 to go with it- he was our best player yesterday. and he’s cutting down on TO’s

to your point - the starter label doesn’t really matter- my reason of even raising it is:
We’re best when Kofi and Belo are playing together. Belo makes Kofi so much more effective- if you notice when Belo gives Kofi the ball, he scores. He’s giving a quick entry or passing it to him while Belo is on the move forcing the defense to rotate- others are giving Kofi and stationary entry pass that allows the defense to collapse. The current rotation often means Belo and Georgi coming in together so Kofi comes out

I acknowledged the likely reluctance of Brad to make a change in the starters so maybe it’s changing the rotation a bit which he has done readily to find the combo that is working best each game- it’s just becoming apparent we’re a better team with Belo on the floor and it’s not the time of year to intentionally sub-optimize the lineup
 
#358      
I hear you- but Belo’s role has already changed - it’s not like we’ve had the same lineup or even rotation during our current run given Ayo being out. Yesterday, Belo played 29 min and ran the offense even with Ayo in the game. He had 19 points on 8 shots with 6 and 5 to go with it- he was our best player yesterday. and he’s cutting down on TO’s

to your point - the starter label doesn’t really matter- my reason of even raising it is:
We’re best when Kofi and Belo are playing together. Belo makes Kofi so much more effective- if you notice when Belo gives Kofi the ball, he scores. He’s giving a quick entry or passing it to him while Belo is on the move forcing the defense to rotate- others are giving Kofi and stationary entry pass that allows the defense to collapse. The current rotation often means Belo and Georgi coming in together so Kofi comes out

I acknowledged the likely reluctance of Brad to make a change in the starters so maybe it’s changing the rotation a bit which he has done readily to find the combo that is working best each game- it’s just becoming apparent we’re a better team with Belo on the floor and it’s not the time of year to intentionally sub-optimize the lineup
The key is having at least one of Belo and Ayo in the game at all times. They both get Kofi easy buckets and they are the two guys who can make things happen offensively. If they both start together, you increase the chance of both getting in early foul trouble. When Belo comes off the bench, you can wait to see if Ayo picks up an early foul and then manage rotations accordingly. If neither is in foul trouble, you can maximize both of their minutes, including a lot of time on the floor together with Kofi.
 
#359      
The key is having at least one of Belo and Ayo in the game at all times. They both get Kofi easy buckets and they are the two guys who can make things happen offensively. If they both start together, you increase the chance of both getting in early foul trouble. When Belo comes off the bench, you can wait to see if Ayo picks up an early foul and then manage rotations accordingly. If neither is in foul trouble, you can maximize both of their minutes, including a lot of time on the floor together with Kofi.
Similarly, I feel if Kofi is on the bench AC has to be in the game. Kofi attracts so much attention, it creates opportunities for shooters and drives. When the big guy sits defenses can play straight up, so it’s imperative we have someone who can breakdown the defense off the dribble.
 
#360      
It's all about eras. There will always be the Jordan v Kobe v Lebron debate and the answer really depends on how old you are.

Same applies here.
I don’t know man. I was in my prime when Frankie played and was a crazy super fan the 05 season, and I’m taking Ayo if i got one play to win it all. And it ain’t close. :)
 
#361      
And that's no slam. Deron was a #3 overall draft pick and the floor general for a national runner up. Scored all but a couple buckets in one of the great all-time comebacks in NCAA tournament history, as well as the shot that tied it up to go to OT. Frankie was legendary as well.

Both those guys could take control of games, and going back you had amazing talent with Nick Anderson, Kendall etc.
I think Anderson, Battle, Gill, Frankie, Eddie Johnson, Dee, Deron were all at least as good as Ayo or maybe even better. But “it” factor has only shone brighter in my life on Dee and Kenny Battle.

IF (big if Ayo takes them to an NCAA tournament championship) and continues to take over games on live nation TV these next 4 weeks. He will go down as the greatest Illini ever. He is up there now no matter what he does from here forward, but the ceiling is yet to be determined. For both Dee and Kenny it is what it is?
 
#362      
So young. Every era has its own heroes. Weatherspoon, Harper, Brown, Williams come immediately to mind. I'm not quite old enough to go any farther back.
You and I could be the oldest here 1961. Do yes Weatherspoon, Mark Smith, Brice Douglas, Deon all come to mind, but man if Dominio could take us to a title. He goes down as the greatest in my mind. Game is not as good now as it was in the 80’s, but still it is a balanced situation for time for reasons spoken of many times here.

He is good I know that
 
#364      
Nice point.

I never saw Butkus play for the Illini but I could listen all day to people talking about how he pulverized RB's or ran through opposing offensive lines like they were paper. And I never saw Manny Jackson on the court, but his legacy grows every year as he continues to give back to the University. (I guess Manny did get mentioned again yesterday, too.) Sorta loving the former Illini and their tweets of late too. The momentum is growing!

BTW --- the Illini got a shoutout yesterday for the VBDI award!
I'm so old I watched Illini and Butkus win the Rose Bowl in 1964 on TV.

One more thing: I'll never criticize Gonzaga as long as The Rev is on the coaching staff. Get him back to Illinois. Would be awesome, baby.
 
Last edited:
#365      

billybaroo

Pebble Beach, CA
The key is having at least one of Belo and Ayo in the game at all times. They both get Kofi easy buckets and they are the two guys who can make things happen offensively. If they both start together, you increase the chance of both getting in early foul trouble. When Belo comes off the bench, you can wait to see if Ayo picks up an early foul and then manage rotations accordingly. If neither is in foul trouble, you can maximize both of their minutes, including a lot of time on the floor together with Kofi.
Great call. This is what I saw yesterday.
 
#370      
It's probably no secret that I'm a total nerd for stats and lists, but this truly jumped out at me:

We now have a winning streak on the road vs. NINE Big Ten schools. The only losing streaks are at Iowa (L2), at Maryland (L3), at MSU (L4) and at Rutgers (L2). Of those four, we only played three of them this year (i.e., no game in Iowa City).

That is ... remarkable.
 
#372      
I think Anderson, Battle, Gill, Frankie, Eddie Johnson, Dee, Deron were all at least as good as Ayo or maybe even better. But “it” factor has only shone brighter in my life on Dee and Kenny Battle.

IF (big if Ayo takes them to an NCAA tournament championship) and continues to take over games on live nation TV these next 4 weeks. He will go down as the greatest Illini ever. He is up there now no matter what he does from here forward, but the ceiling is yet to be determined. For both Dee and Kenny it is what it is?

If Ayo leads Illinois to their first national championship, I will gladly anoint him as the greatest Illini ever :D
 
#373      
boy , let’s just hope someone else on the roster now or added soon can possibly fill Ayo’s shoes next year or in the years to come .

the only way to sustain success is to have these awesome players in the pipeline .
The Michigan game showed me we can survive and thrive when ayo moves to next level. We DO need to sustain pipeline and development.
 
#374      
For those advocating for Belo to be starting, I have one word for you — analytics. It is obvious that BU and the Illini staff use analytics a lot, so they know what lineup is the most efficient offensively. Just as important they know what lineup is second, third . . . and least efficient offensively. Then there is defense to consider too. So while Belo starting might be the most offensively efficient, it may well mean subsequent lineups of far lesser efficiency — both offensively and defensively — being on the floor for longer periods of time throughout the course of a game. And that doesn’t take into consideration matchups against opponents, foul trouble and off games by players. Against OSU, Trent got into early foul trouble and had to sit. If Belo had started and was playing with Trent early, how would have that impacted the rotation with Trent sitting and trying to get Belo and Ayo a few minutes of rest in first half? It’s not always about having the best offensive combo out there for a few more minutes each game. It is about maximizing the overall offensive and defensive efficiency throughout the game, and having the rotations set up to have the most overall efficient lineup in for all or most of the last 5-8 minutes of the game.

Maybe those wanting Belo to start have done a deep dive into the analytics and maybe not. But I assure you BU, Gentry and Chin have. And an 11-1 record down the stretch lead me to believe they are doing just fine pushing all the buttons.