Taking Weber over Matta was a colossal mistake.
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I agree with this, but factor in age (Calipari is 62 - five years older than Underwood), the fact that Cal hasn't been to the Final Four since 2015, and the frustration of Kentucky fans over only having one title in his tenure, and I think it's a fair point to say that Underwood is more likely to be around in four years. That being said, I think the most likely scenario is both are still around in four years, so who knows how much this really factors into OA's decision. Probably not much, if at all.
Looking back, yes... At the time, wasn't that obvious.
Not if you ask Jay Buhner (where’s that Seinfeld clip?).
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Disagree. It seemed obvious to me at the time that Matta was the better choice. Carried himself with more authority, had roots in EC ILL, was more creative on the floor, hadn't spent his entire adulthood as an assistant for the same guy waiting to inherit his chair. Oh, and didn't come off as a complete dork.
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You would think if the two assistant coaches were leaving there would news flying off the press. I hope they both stay. I haven't heard anything as of yet here in KY. Sad for the UK basketball player and his family.
*NOT AN INSIDER CLAIM* - 0440, and other "Insiders" can confirm/tell if what I hear below is fact or fiction from what they are hearing as well.
However, my family has been a booster of the program ever since the mid-'80s. My father is an alumnus, and local Champaign business owner, whose other business partner and best friend is a former Illini Basketball player (w/NBA experience) from the '70s, and well connected to the Atkins, Kahn families. With that said, I can say for sure that since the early/mid part of this 2020 Basketball season. Whitman and Underwood have been given many assurances from more prominent boosters, alumni that they are willing to come to the table to help this program.
They believe in Underwood and BU's staff and do not want to see another Self situation arise. These same alumni still are pretty PISSED about what happened with Self and the optics around the whole thing. More specifically, Gunther not making more of a play "public" attempt/try to keep him, after the string of success we had with Kruger and then during Self's tenure (96-03). Even if everyone knew it was a very long shot. It was not a good look for the program in their eyes and potentially played a factor in getting another up-and-coming, high-level coach to replace Self.
With that all said, I think Whitman is showing he is not Gunther Lite, and the Alumnius are putting their money where their mouth is. We see this in the $1M for 4/year offer to OA. I am hearing Chin is due to get a substantial counter offer as well $700k range for 4/year. Lastly, it has recently been reported that the new Ubben ($40M) has picked up a substantial number of recent donations over the past few months - one for over $3M alone. Some recently announced - locally - but more to come out over the summer (trickle campaign) to continue the momentum and spotlight on the project.
Whitman gets it and is doing what a TRUE top-tier BigTen AD should be doing - stepping up and pulling strings where and when he has to. He is also showing Brad that he is not just a FB AD and truly has his back. Both in front of the cameras and behind them with the Administration, President of the University, Boards, and boosters.
However, my family has been a booster of the program ever since the mid-'80s. My father is an alumnus, and local Champaign business owner, whose other business partner and best friend is a former Illini Basketball player (w/NBA experience) from the '70s, and well connected to the Atkins, Kahn families. With that said, I can say for sure that since the early/mid part of this 2020 Basketball season. Whitman and Underwood have been given many assurances from more prominent boosters, alumni that they are willing to come to the table to help this program.
They believe in Underwood and BU's staff and do not want to see another Self situation arise. These same alumni still are pretty PISSED about what happened with Self and the optics around the whole thing. More specifically, Gunther not making more of a play "public" attempt/try to keep him, after the string of success we had with Kruger and then during Self's tenure (96-03). Even if everyone knew it was a very long shot. It was not a good look for the program in their eyes and potentially played a factor in getting another up-and-coming, high-level coach to replace Self.
With that all said, I think Whitman is showing he is not Gunther Lite, and the Alumnius are putting their money where their mouth is. We see this in the $1M for 4/year offer to OA. I am hearing Chin is due to get a substantial counter offer as well $700k range for 4/year. Lastly, it has recently been reported that the new Ubben ($40M) has picked up a substantial number of recent donations over the past few months - one for over $3M alone. Some recently announced - locally - but more to come out over the summer (trickle campaign) to continue the momentum and spotlight on the project.
Whitman gets it and is doing what a TRUE top-tier BigTen AD should be doing - stepping up and pulling strings where and when he has to. He is also showing Brad that he is not just a FB AD and truly has his back. Both in front of the cameras and behind them with the Administration, President of the University, Boards, and boosters.
JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
- Chicago
Agree to disagree... Weber had been at SIU long enough to rebuild a struggling program with his own recruits, Matta was at Butler as a head coach for 1 season and X for 2 seasons at that point. All NCAA trips for Matta, no Sweet 16's to that point.
I was excited about the Weber hire (at the time), but then again I thought Lovie was a great hire for the football program.
Deleted member 747671
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People are missing the point. It doesn't matter how "safe" Underwood or Cal are. OA can coach anywhere he wants, any time he wants. He's that good of a coach and recruiter. Barring NCAA sanctions, he can be one of the highest paid assistant coaches at basically the program of his choosing. If his HC is fired, he will be sought after by everyone, including whomever replaces that HC.
Deleted member 747671
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He was brought in a few years later when it was clear Weber didn't have the recruiting chops necessary.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Agreed (to disagree). I saw Weber coach SIU in the regionals in 2002 and was impressed with his 11-seed team (they had narrow win over 6-seed Georgia and then were able to hang with 2-seed Connecticut most of the way.) I agree with you that he had the longer, and more impressive, track record as a head coach, albeit relatively short.
My objection at the time was that he didn't pass the smell test where intangibles were concerned. I watched 10-20x the amount of college hoops then compared with now (misspent winters in my early 30s) and had seen enough of Matta's Xavier teams to be more impressed with him than I was with Weber (about whom, I'll grant, I knew little in 2003 beyond his lineage under Keady at Western KY & Purdue and what I saw of him in Syracuse at the 2002 regionals.) Weber lacked those intangibles that I felt were crucial to succeed at Illinois. His achievements at the time were necessary but insufficient conditions for qualifying him to be our coach. In fact, when I learned that Self was leaving I immediately wanted Matta to get the job. I brought this up at some point on the forum this past season and someone reminded me that the sticking point between Matta and Guenther was apparently retention of existing assistants, which I'd either forgotten about or never knew.
Water under the bridge. Am very pleased with our head coach and AD at this point.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Bingo. The only question for him, if he wants to be a head coach again, is what job is ideal for him getting that opportunity.
If his head coach is fired, presumably it will be because of bad results. Will he be sought after even in that case? Yes. As the highest paid AC in the country? Probably not. Plus, you can always leave a job you have if a better opportunity arises, but it's not always your choice whether the job you have stays the same. The entire reason we offered 4-years is because stability is attractive to people, even people who might choose to leave on their own one day. The question is whether we are able to offer more stability than Kentucky, and just how important that stability is to OA. Jury's out on that.
Just a hunch that with the passing of Terrance Clarke the situation is going to slow down a bit while other matters are attended to.
Deleted member 747671
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If BU falls flat and is fired, maybe you have a case. If Cal is fired for not being a top 5 program, that speaks more to the crazy expectations at Kentucky. Regardless, OA is about as known a quantity as possible for an assistant coach. He's either going to be one of the highest paid assistants in the country or eventually a HC for the majority of the rest of his career. Also, OA is more than just a recruiter. He's a proven developer of talent as well. There's a reason Kentucky wants him back and is willing to pay a boatload.
My first memory of Illinois was as a 7 year old listening to JC Caroline run against Stanford in 1952. I've seen alot so let me make this real clear:
WHEN HE RETIRES JOSH WHITMAN WILL BE THE BEST AD THIS SCHOOL HAS EVER HAD BY A HUGE AMOUNT.
AND HE MAY BE ALREADY. HE GETS IT.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Great info, thanks!
Nope, I talked to Jim Matta several times about this. Thad never got a call from GuentherAgreed (to disagree). I saw Weber coach SIU in the regionals in 2002 and was impressed with his 11-seed team (they had narrow win over 6-seed Georgia and then were able to hang with 2-seed Connecticut most of the way.) I agree with you that he had the longer, and more impressive, track record as a head coach, albeit relatively short.
My objection at the time was that he didn't pass the smell test where intangibles were concerned. I watched 10-20x the amount of college hoops then compared with now (misspent winters in my early 30s) and had seen enough of Matta's Xavier teams to be more impressed with him than I was with Weber (about whom, I'll grant, I knew little in 2003 beyond his lineage under Keady at Western KY & Purdue and what I saw of him in Syracuse at the 2002 regionals.) Weber lacked those intangibles that I felt were crucial to succeed at Illinois. His achievements at the time were necessary but insufficient conditions for qualifying him to be our coach. In fact, when I learned that Self was leaving I immediately wanted Matta to get the job. I brought this up at some point on the forum this past season and someone reminded me that the sticking point between Matta and Guenther was apparently retention of existing assistants, which I'd either forgotten about or never knew.
Water under the bridge. Am very pleased with our head coach and AD at this point.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Interesting (and confounding.) That's what I understood back in '03 from others on a different Illini forum. SMH.
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