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#1,351      

RJK01

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RJK01
nichi said:
How about a guy whose coaching experience consists of one year as a graduate assistant and 3 years as a volunteer elementary school coach?
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Only if he can coach big men.
 
#1,353      

WestSuburbanIllini

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WestSuburbanIllini
RJK01 said:
Antigua is very good, but how much of his reputation is a result of his prior stint at Kentucky? At Illinois he recruited better than any assistant since Self's staff, but if he didn't have his time at Kentucky, his rep wouldn't be that he is the best assistant in college basketball. I think Mennenga's time at Oregon shows that he can recruit to a college with a lesser reputation with better results. If Antigua had recruited 5 stars consistently at Illinois, I'd agree with your assessment, but while I love the recruits that came here, those same recruits would not have got him the great rep he has as a recruiter. His work with Kofi would definitely give him strong marks as a big man coach. Kenny Payne took Antigua's role at Kentucky and he pulled in numerous studs. Schools like KY, Duke, NC, KS. and Michigan St. are going to get 90% of the 5 stars to at least listen to their pitch. Before Antigua left Kentucky, there were also questions about the school's recruiting practices. How much did that help with those one and done commitments?
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Think of it this way - he was good enough for Cal to bring him onto his staff at Kentucky the first time around. That doesn't just happen by accident and obviously he did well and made that look like a great personnel move by Cal.
 
#1,354      

RJK01

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RJK01
What I find humorous about posters' comments about Frazier, is that for years fans have wanted an alum on staff. Now we have one and some posters are questioning the hire. So, it's not having an alum, but having the alum they want. People want Dee Brown, but Frazier has a better resume without the baggage. People still want Jerrance Howard, but Frazier has an excellent reputation. I keep hearing how Howard is a great recruiter and Frazier needs to prove himself. Which school would be easier to recruit to, Kansas or Kansas St? Kansas or Virginia Tech? People are disappointed that Frazier was hired and not Powell. I don't know, but maybe Powell was contacted and was not interested in Illinois. Also, is Powell known as a good recruiter? I look at Frazier's experience and see a young coach taking the correct steps to further his career. I think he will prove his worth and add value to the staff. Nothing in his past indicates that he will embarrass the University of Illinois with his personal conduct and I think that fans will be sorry when he moves on to his next job.
 
#1,355      

RJK01

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RJK01
WestSuburbanIllini said:
Think of it this way - he was good enough for Cal to bring him onto his staff at Kentucky the first time around. That doesn't just happen by accident and obviously he did well and made that look like a great personnel move by Cal.
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From what I've read, Cal was an assistant at Pitt when Antigua played there, so he already knew him. Dixon gave Antigua his first coaching job and Cal hired him at Memphis and took him along when he went to Kentucky. So it was more about hiring an assistant that Cal already knew, not because he had a great rep as a recruiter. How much did being at Kentucky enhance Antigua's reputation? If he had stayed at Pitt, would he have been known as a great recruiter? Don't know, but I still say Kentucky made it easier for Antigua to pull in those 5 stars.
 
#1,356      

grue2

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grue2
RJK01 said:
Antigua is very good, but how much of his reputation is a result of his prior stint at Kentucky? At Illinois he recruited better than any assistant since Self's staff, but if he didn't have his time at Kentucky, his rep wouldn't be that he is the best assistant in college basketball. I think Mennenga's time at Oregon shows that he can recruit to a college with a lesser reputation with better results. If Antigua had recruited 5 stars consistently at Illinois, I'd agree with your assessment, but while I love the recruits that came here, those same recruits would not have got him the great rep he has as a recruiter. His work with Kofi would definitely give him strong marks as a big man coach. Kenny Payne took Antigua's role at Kentucky and he pulled in numerous studs. Schools like KY, Duke, NC, KS. and Michigan St. are going to get 90% of the 5 stars to at least listen to their pitch. Before Antigua left Kentucky, there were also questions about the school's recruiting practices. How much did that help with those one and done commitments?
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This may tie back to BU's style preference. I thought BU said that he prefers talent that will be here for 2-3 years vs. 1-and-done. If so, Antigua was pretty spot on. Antigua's prior success at KY helps demonstrate that it was not a fluke. The players he recruited, and more importantly, the ones he helped develop did well in both cases. As per my prior post, I believe that OA is a great recruiter of big men because they know he is a great big man development coach.

I support BU's style of preferring 2+ years:
1) I believe that on average teams using 2-and-done players will beat teams relying on 1-and-done's.
2) I prefer watching good team play to 1:1 highlights. If I wanted to watch 1:1 highlights, I'd watch the NBA.
3) A player whose primary concern is looking good to get drafted higher is an active negative for me. THT was an example of this.
 
#1,357      

Ubermensch

Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Ubermensch
RJK01 said:
Antigua is very good, but how much of his reputation is a result of his prior stint at Kentucky? At Illinois he recruited better than any assistant since Self's staff, but if he didn't have his time at Kentucky, his rep wouldn't be that he is the best assistant in college basketball.
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"If Orlando wasn't so good, he wouldn't be so good." I don't know how official these rankings are, but whether OA is the #1 assistant or the #11, the point is he's a terrible loss for UI basketball, obviously. Kentucky and Illinois weren't in a bidding war over a papier-mache reputation.
 
#1,359      

2020FinalFour

2020FinalFour
2020FinalFour
When Underwood signed Chin, he was not his first choice. I forget the other guys name, but he had ties to Chicago and he went elsewhere. Chin turned out pretty good so I trust Underwood to get another top candidate to go along with Frazier.
 
#1,361      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
2020FinalFour said:
When Underwood signed Chin, he was not his first choice. I forget the other guys name, but he had ties to Chicago and he went elsewhere. Chin turned out pretty good so I trust Underwood to get another top candidate to go along with Frazier.
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Didn't BU have to let Parham go to make room for Chin??
 
#1,362      

tell it like it is

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tell it like it is
ILFaninFL said:
I agree. Chin got his start coaching Mac Irving Fire and then ended up at Whitney Young before becoming a college assistant. That was why Brad offered him the job and I think it paid dividends. I don't think anyone was happy when he left, but that doesn't mean there aren't equally talented guys out there.

The hard one will be replacing OA with his recruiting chops. Everyone gives him high marks for his work with Georgie and Kofi, but Georgie didn't seem to continue to improve and Kofi is just a freak. Who is to say another coach couldn't have done more ...?

One telling thing is that when lists are made of the top assistants neither guy seemed to pop up until OA started to make lists when he went to Kentucky again.

I have every confidence that Brad will find his guys that will make us all scratch our heads in a few years and wonder what all the hand wringing was about.
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Here we go again with a common sense post. I thought those were banned awhile back??👍
 
#1,363      

Go Nats 88 Illini

Go Nats 88 Illini
Fairfax, VA
Go Nats 88 Illini
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#1,370      

oldman

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oldman
Jordan Nesbitt, Mac Etienne, Bryce Hopkins, Ty Ty Washington. And from the transfers post, we apparently cannot forget the EJ Liddell recruitment. There are other ACs out there who can recruit, as evidenced by all of the near misses we suffered through. While I wish Antigua and Coleman were not leaving, I'm certain Underwood and Frazier and whoever else is recruiting for us will do just fine. Lets not forget all of the misses in the past year.

What is worse are the folks posting that Frazier is a mistake primarily because he is an Illinois alum. If they are Illinois alums it says something about their opinions of their education and Illinois as an educational institution. It is sad and unfortunately somewhat destructive that some derive gratification from posting loud, negative, antagonistic opinions, apparently because of the attention that they get.
 
#1,373      

illinibb76

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illinibb76
Ok first I don't have anything against the coaches that left but I'm just stating that OA is not the best recruiter or AC in the country. Very few AC's recruit above the reputation of the school they're at. If that was so for OA why was he 17-48 at South Florida and why did he not recruit better at Illinois that he did at Kentucky? Yes he is better than most but we were willing to pay above market value because of us trying to establish stability and momentum. A house for sale that has two desperate buyers will pay more than the actual value for said house. Was his recruiting twice as good as the next best recruiter and AC in the country, I don't think so. If it wasn't for Cal becoming desperate and wanting to "put the band" back together to save his own reputation this whole discussion would never have happened. Again it's just business and I think, unless some players decide to leave, we will continue on the upward trajectory with a new group of competent AC's!
 
#1,375      

RJK01

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RJK01
illinibb76 said:
Ok first I don't have anything against the coaches that left but I'm just stating that OA is not the best recruiter or AC in the country. Very few AC's recruit above the reputation of the school they're at. If that was so for OA why was he 17-48 at South Florida and why did he not recruit better at Illinois that he did at Kentucky? Yes he is better than most but we were willing to pay above market value because of us trying to establish stability and momentum. A house for sale that has two desperate buyers will pay more than the actual value for said house. Was his recruiting twice as good as the next best recruiter and AC in the country, I don't think so. If it wasn't for Cal becoming desperate and wanting to "put the band" back together to save his own reputation this whole discussion would never have happened. Again it's just business and I think, unless some players decide to leave, we will continue on the upward trajectory with a new group of competent AC's!
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I've wondered for the last year why Cal didn't call Antigua when Kenny Payne left for the Knicks. To your point, Payne was considered the Gold Standard while he was at Kentucky. You can take anyone of six assistant coaches with reputations as good recruiters and put them on the staff at Kentucky and they will recruit higher rated players than their previous job.
 
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