When a college coach recruits without offering money, he will be at a disadvantage. The players Weber needed, all took the money: Collins, Wright, Rose, Gordon or couldn't get into Illinois, Rush. Weber would have been a very good coach in the 50's and 60's by developing talent. By the time the 2000's came along, Weber couldn't relate to the recruiting game. Deron being more serious appreciated Weber's coaching, Dee didn't like it. Too many people didn't like Weber because he wasn't Self. It amazes me still the number of people that feel that Self is a great coach. He's a slimeball. No morals, only interested in what he can get out of a situation and will run over people to get ahead. If he can't buy a player, he won't be able to recruit him.
Bruce Weber resigns as Kansas State coach
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OurMottoisOskeeWowWow
- Illinois
I just want to make it clear that I'm over the hills with what Brad Underwood has done. Look where we were 5-6 years ago. He's gotten high ranked recruits and we've won a Big Ten Tournament and tied for 1st in the Big Ten regular season. Now with that said, I really hope we make a run in the NCAA tournament (knocking on wood as I literally type this). I admire Underwood's passion and fire that I've seen from his and I gotta say it's funny now that he's being desired by programs like K-State granted I know he has history there. It just shows how far Illinois basketball has come these past few years.
Whoever posted that Underwood hasn't faced any challenges uhh dude do you remember where we were when John Groce was fired? Some people on here have short memories on here.
Whoever posted that Underwood hasn't faced any challenges uhh dude do you remember where we were when John Groce was fired? Some people on here have short memories on here.
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The return of "Bruce Weber was the last decent man in college basketball and he was blameless in all the terrible misfortunes that befell him, without which we'd have not just won but won the RIGHT, morally superior way" discourse is incredibly triggering, not gonna lie.
Not my problem anymore, breathe, serenity now.
Not my problem anymore, breathe, serenity now.
I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Bruce. 2005 will live forever!!
Salty take for sure...
Kruger - 4 years - 1 B10 title, made NCAA 2nd round 3 years
Self 3 years - 2 B10 titles 1 second, made NCAA elite eight, sweet 16 and 2nd round
Bruce inherited program that was perenial top 20 then top 10. He did awesome for 2 (or 3) seasons with Self's recruits. Then drove it into the ground the next 7. You see this in business quite often where a business wins the lottery and has couple spectacular years then crashes and burns because it was all luck not performance.
Brad inherited train wreck and has us in NCAA 3 years in row in 5 years. #1 seed and BTT champs last year. B10 champs this year. He rebuilt the program and is sustaining it. No comparison to Bruce.
Brad does not make excuses or throw his players under the bus. JW found a winner.
I am also very optimistic with Brett and our football program. We almost snuck into a bowl game his first season. I think we have good shot of going 7-5 or 8-4 next year. it all depends on our QB's.
Self 3 years - 2 B10 titles 1 second, made NCAA elite eight, sweet 16 and 2nd round
Bruce inherited program that was perenial top 20 then top 10. He did awesome for 2 (or 3) seasons with Self's recruits. Then drove it into the ground the next 7. You see this in business quite often where a business wins the lottery and has couple spectacular years then crashes and burns because it was all luck not performance.
Brad inherited train wreck and has us in NCAA 3 years in row in 5 years. #1 seed and BTT champs last year. B10 champs this year. He rebuilt the program and is sustaining it. No comparison to Bruce.
Brad does not make excuses or throw his players under the bus. JW found a winner.
I am also very optimistic with Brett and our football program. We almost snuck into a bowl game his first season. I think we have good shot of going 7-5 or 8-4 next year. it all depends on our QB's.
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It's not even close. Not by a fraction.I hope the South Farms have more Bull semen than the Gardiners!!
Frank Martin left Kstate to go to South Carolina ….he had success at kstate. I am not worried about kstate taking anyone.
People seem to have misunderstood my point. If you have read my posts, you would know that I have pointed out the obstacles BU overcame - he had a real argument for COY.
Adversity, as I meant it, is when the fans and the administration no longer have your back - i.e. like Turgeon this year, for example. Facing challenges in doing your job is one thing. Trying to do that job and having to answer questions from the media to defend your job performance when that job is in doubt is another. BU has always enjoyed the support of the fans and the administration here. That wasn't true for much of BW's time here, so I can understand lapses of judgment in trying to defend his performance. I would hope and expect that BU wouldn't make those same mistakes, but he hasn't been in that position.
Adversity, as I meant it, is when the fans and the administration no longer have your back - i.e. like Turgeon this year, for example. Facing challenges in doing your job is one thing. Trying to do that job and having to answer questions from the media to defend your job performance when that job is in doubt is another. BU has always enjoyed the support of the fans and the administration here. That wasn't true for much of BW's time here, so I can understand lapses of judgment in trying to defend his performance. I would hope and expect that BU wouldn't make those same mistakes, but he hasn't been in that position.
Bull semen futures are through the roof. Only slightly off topic.
Really I think most people in this thread are saying the same thing, just have differing perspectives on it depending on what they focus on. There are those whose primary memories of Weber recall how gutting it was when Self basically left in the middle of the night and tried taking Dee and Deron with him to Kansas and how Bruce at the time was able to not only hold us together but get the most out of our players and take us on truly a magical journey and will always hold him highly for it. And there are those whose primary memories of Bruce involve the final 5 years of his tenure where it was apparent how much the team had fallen off and how he had taken a highly successful program and national contender into an annual bubble team that didn't play an attractive style of basketball and hold him responsible for the dumpster fire of a program that ensued after he left, especially with how his final media interviews basically threw the school under the bus. In reality the answer is likely somewhere between the two sides or both sides of the coin and I think most of us would admit that. His highs were extraordinarily high and his lows were low based on the quality of program he inherited and our expectations. He'll always be a divisive coach for the fanbase for that reason.
As for adversity, all coaches deal with adversity and it's never the same. So in my opinion it's rather silly to compare. For example, we'll never know how Brad would've dealt with incidents like Jamar Smith, Luthor Head, Rich McBride, or Calvin Brock's or a talented but toxic player like Jereme Richmond. And we won't know how Weber would've handled building our team back up from the ground up, getting his entire coaching staff poached, or dealing with the transfer culture. It's safe to say adversity is synonymous with coaching, and Brad has handled his very well thus far.
As for adversity, all coaches deal with adversity and it's never the same. So in my opinion it's rather silly to compare. For example, we'll never know how Brad would've dealt with incidents like Jamar Smith, Luthor Head, Rich McBride, or Calvin Brock's or a talented but toxic player like Jereme Richmond. And we won't know how Weber would've handled building our team back up from the ground up, getting his entire coaching staff poached, or dealing with the transfer culture. It's safe to say adversity is synonymous with coaching, and Brad has handled his very well thus far.
How has no one mentioned Dominant Erupt during this entire conversation? Lol
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Props on the orange autos.Hold on.....Bruce weber was handed the keys to:
Brad Underwood was handed the keys to:
(not to toot my own horn here...but someone award me some Loyalty Beach Houses for finding an orange car for both .gifs. Thanks.)
I'm impressed, mind you, but that's more of a Lake Shelbyville beach house achievement.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
As others have noted, I hope he coaches elsewhere if he wants to, has success, and retires on his own terms. If he doesn't, I wish him well regardless. He's a good man.
And having been away from the threads for ~ six hours (a veritable lifetime in early March, mind you), please allow me to express my unabashed delight that bull semen has become a Loyalty topic du jour.
I don‘t buy the moral self-righteousness Weber has promoted. It’s more damning for his own character in my opinion because he only discusses these topics in the context of his own failures as a justification.
Had an Illinois booster paid Julian Wright would he have refused the commitment? He could’ve done more over his career to reform and expose these evils of the industry, but he didn’t because it would’ve negatively affected himself to do so.
Had an Illinois booster paid Julian Wright would he have refused the commitment? He could’ve done more over his career to reform and expose these evils of the industry, but he didn’t because it would’ve negatively affected himself to do so.
In this context then a defender is anyone arguing he was better than terrible.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Bruce would serve well as the next Phil Martelli for the next up and coming big name recruiter that needs his coaching skills refined. As many have mentioned, good coach, crappy recruiter. Mad respect for his FU to the NCAA with regards to punishing the untouchables.
Your premise that BW was “incompetent” and in over his head is laughable. I love the posters who give BW zero credit for bringing us to the championship game because he did it with Self’s players. Do we forget how few coaches have made it to the championship game regardless of talent level? Do we forget the hand he was dealt working at UI under the AD and others during that time. I saw on Twitter that on a recruiting trip, Izzy let him fly on his MSU private jet from a camp to visit recruits in Akron because BW was flying commercial and had to wake up at 3:00 am to catch the flight. If you’re suggesting the Peter Principle applied to BW because successful coaches at his level should cheat, then I dont know what to tell you.BAM terminated at KSU. Weber is nice example of Peter principle. Of course hope springs eternal so KSU assumed something would change when he arrived there. Weber was correctly slotted at SIU. Groce and Beckman were also good examples. There are of course exceptions like Underwood.
......"The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a level of respective incompetence."
The Peter Principle is thus based on the paradoxical idea that competent employees will continue to be promoted, but at some point will be promoted into positions for which they are incompetent, and they will then remain in those positions because of the fact that they do not demonstrate any further competence that would get them recognized for additional promotion......
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The Peter Principle: What It Is and How to Overcome It
The Peter Principle theorizes that people in a firm will be promoted up to a point where they are no longer qualified, leaving a company full of incompetent employees.www.investopedia.com
I should add, I supported his being let go by UI. He wasn’t going to take us to the promised land, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t and isn’t a solid P-5 coach
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
There were more NBA players on the team that got Bruce fired than there are on our current team.
There were more top 100 recruits on that team than on last year's 1 seed too.
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