Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#376      

Timj83

T
Timj83
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
Basketball is about wiry strength. Most nba players are actually dropping weight in the offseason now because the extra step in quickness in a pace and space world could literally be worth millions of dollars.

I’m not advocating against him lifting at all, but basketball based lifting is very different than other sports because you need the explosion of football (bar speed within the lift), and the conditioning of cross country. Two energy systems that generally work in a give and take in your body have to be perfectly balanced and in sync to reach maximum basketball potential.

The lifting styles that lead to quick muscle and weight gains are often not good for basketball players. When you get into higher rep ranges you naturally lose bar speed at the end of your sets. Basketball lifts are about explosive bar speeds through a full range of motion. I’m guessing fletch has a preferred bar speed range (usually measured in m/s by a recording app) based on how heavy he has the guys going. For a lot of basketball s+c coaches, increasing weight is secondary to maintaining/increasing bar speed.

So that said, the gains still come, but they can be slower at times. And in general, you don’t add weight for the sake of it in basketball anymore. You maximize strength and explosion in a wiry frame.

These are not my words by the way. This is part of a sit down I had with university of Houston my s+c coach Alan Bishop when I was able to visit in December. (You might remember the essay I wrote about houston in the lead up to that tourney game; same trip). I run the s+c program for my team and incorporated his philosophy. Many of my guys lifts actually went down in the transition to his style, but on the court you can see that we are significantly stronger and way more explosive. So while the evidence I present for this is anecdotal over about 20 athletes, it’s rooted in research. Not trying to be argumentative just trying to throw a different perspective and some nerd lifting reading out there for the board.
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Appreciate the insights! Gotta imagine Fletch is all up on this and building our guys the right way.
 
#378      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
altgeld88 said:
I'm well aware of the argument against basketball players lifting heavy, as I went through it ~ 40 years ago. And I certainly am not questioning your personal experience on the topic running an S&C program. I'm questioning the conventional wisdom on this topic generally for the past umpteen years.

Strength is the capacity to exert force against an external resistance. There's certainly an inflection point for weight gain via strength training in basketball that's different from football and other sports, but I rarely see basketball players who couldn't be productively stronger, often by a country mile.

Explosiveness (vertical leap, e.g.) is genetic. It can't be trained. But power can, and, particularly for someone such as CoHawk, would serve him well. I still lift in my mid-50s and am certainly conscious of bar speed and aware of its relation to strength development. A set of squats, for example, trained at the same weight, is more beneficial done explosively out of the hole than slowly.

I also recall some sportswriter gushing over Steph Curry at some point ~ 7-8 yrs ago because he could deadlift 405. That's absurd. He should be deadlifting at least 500 if not well north of that. Leaving that kind of strength on the table is, objectively, daft, even for a guard. Particularly for the guys in D-1 and the pros who are by definition generically gifted. The problem with S&C programs is that really you can do anything with an 18-year-old D-1 athlete and he's going to be bigger and stronger by the time he's 22 no matter what. Again, the issue is how much bigger, stronger, and athletic he might have been by deadlifting, squatting and pressing more and balancing on BOSU balls less.
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I think the gray area is that at some point the extra strength does bulk you a bit. The question for basketball is, does the extra mass, however minute, create an advantage or disadvantage? In a pace and space league players are trending toward not pushing hard for that extra strength because it could lead to the extra mass. And the extra mass, could slow you down just a bit, and that just a bit isn’t worth it for them. So if steph curry deadlifts 405 and probably does work sets between 315-350 with great bar speed, is it worth it for him to gain 5-10lbs, and DL 495 and do his work sets between 375-405 with pretty good bar speed? Right now the league is saying no, right or wrong.
 
#380      

RabidDawgClassic

RabidDawgClassic
RabidDawgClassic
trtl said:
“Up and Atom …”
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#382      

lstewart53x3

lstewart53x3
Scottsdale, Arizona
lstewart53x3
Underwood is recruiting unbelievably well.

Here’s a snapshot of every recruit he’s brought in, in order. The bolded are top 100 recruits. Seems like a pattern is emerging.

For additional context:

Underwood’s first team had 2 top 100 recruits. His next team (not including any additional transfers) will have 9.

This is all from Robert’s newest article:

illiniboard.com

RSCI Update

Let me tell you about my Illinois loyalty. Not my loyalty to Illinois - you hear about that every day - but my overall loyalty. Which, let's be honest, was probably developed at a young age as I was singing
illiniboard.com illiniboard.com
 

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#385      

Homecoming 2019

Homecoming 2019
Chicago
Homecoming 2019
lstewart53x3 said:
Underwood is recruiting unbelievably well.

Here’s a snapshot of every recruit he’s brought in, in order. The bolded are top 100 recruits. Seems like a pattern is emerging.

For additional context:

Underwood’s first team had 2 top 100 recruits. His next team (not including any additional transfers) will have 9.

This is all from Robert’s newest article:

illiniboard.com

RSCI Update

Let me tell you about my Illinois loyalty. Not my loyalty to Illinois - you hear about that every day - but my overall loyalty. Which, let's be honest, was probably developed at a young age as I was singing
illiniboard.com illiniboard.com
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It's weird to think how much of a revolution Ayo was to the program, now we get a guy with the exact same RSCI ranking, Skyy, and he's just another piece of the puzzle.
 
#386      

Flight33

F
Flight33
lstewart53x3 said:
Underwood is recruiting unbelievably well.

Here’s a snapshot of every recruit he’s brought in, in order. The bolded are top 100 recruits. Seems like a pattern is emerging.

For additional context:

Underwood’s first team had 2 top 100 recruits. His next team (not including any additional transfers) will have 9.

This is all from Robert’s newest article:

illiniboard.com

RSCI Update

Let me tell you about my Illinois loyalty. Not my loyalty to Illinois - you hear about that every day - but my overall loyalty. Which, let's be honest, was probably developed at a young age as I was singing
illiniboard.com illiniboard.com
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Great post. And, 3 of the last 4 not in the top 100 were big contributors to the team.
 
#388      

JacquesClouseau

JacquesClouseau
JacquesClouseau
altgeld88 said:
OK. I disagree. That muscle would only enhance his power and agility. I can't understand any downside to him playing at 250 if that 30 lb gain has come through increasing his squat, press and deadlift significantly.

Rowinski was listed at 6'8", 250 lbs. CoHawk is two inches taller. Frankly, he could go 20 lbs beyond that and be deadly.

Of course, it's irrelevant beyond speculative value. He'll never get there. Will be surprised if he tops 230. Love the guy and just want to see him reach his potential while wearing the O&B.
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Depends what you want him to play like. He's not going to be a John Harrar, whom I admire, but cannot run the court. You made a good point previously about strength vs power. You actually need some of both. Muscle memory patterns across multiple muscle groups with increased fiber recruitment is key. You don't need to bulk up and potentially lose flexibility to add a good amount of strength and power.
 
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