Missouri 93, Illinois 71 Postgame

[chudaman]

Common theme. We overestimate the amount of talent at the beginning of every year. All fan bases do it. People talking up Melendez and Hawkins as guys the NBA would want at the end of the year. People talking about Clark as one and done and Rodgers as someone we hope lasts for 2 years before the NBA. I don't know how this team beat UCLA and Texas and gave Virginia such a great game. This team now is brutal. Underwood needs to start earning that $3.4 million salary really soon. Buck stops with him.

12 pages and no one has yet proposed that future lotto pick Perrin is the answer?! The board is off its game just like the Illini.

 

[Nuke Dukem]

Coleman Hawkins….said he needed to mature with his attitude and his play. Neither has happened. Dude might be the most frustrating person to watch on this team. Game after game the announcers at least once say, “Not sure why Hawkins didn’t just shoot that layup instead of passing it out…”

It's like defending the run option in football when you know the QB is never gonna run the ball.

 

[gibb52]

This is something I’ve been thinking about. I just wonder if having your PF/C being the trigger man doesn’t mess with offensive flow because it puts people in positions they haven’t been in before. He’s also not much of a threat to drive and dish. And certainly isn’t a threat from 3. Seems like the 3s he does hit are of the catch and shoot variety. I just think they might be better off having the PGs actually play PG.

I think this is a big part of the offensive issues. CH is just not cut out to be a point fwd. He is a rangy athletic kid that can run and defend just about anybody. His best offense is as the #3 or #4 "sneak attack" that slips into a hole in the D for a quick bunny or layup. Him being out front is a contributing to the stagnant offense.

 

[IlliniCub 16]

Re-watched a lot of the game, and just wanted to share a couple of observations.

Epps and Sencire are going to be really really good players here throughout their career. They did not quit at all, and that was very evident on the tape. Defense had a ton of breakdowns-but there were at least 6 times where Mizzou made miracle shots. Having such a young team, that can rattle a lot of our guys. Once we lost momentum, the game was over with 30 minutes left. We have to do a better job of keeping composure. I still believe in this team. I know it is hard for some of you guys right now, but don't give up on them. When this team clicks, it will be special. Have a good Christmas everyone, and keep the faith.

Earlier in this thread, someone else brought up a similar experience that we saw in the Penn State game as well. I think the focus really needs to be trying to lock down defensively right from the start of the game. Against Penn State and Mizzou, we gave up wide, and I mean wide open looks for three and easy layups/dunks right off the bat, which built their confidence.
Once a team is feeling good and seeing the ball going in, next thing you know they are banking in threes and hitting fadeaway 20 footers with the shot clock expiring. Similar to the Maryland game as well although not quite as extreme.

I'm sure it's easier said than done, and maybe we still lose both games anyway, but getting just a few more stops earlier in the game and forcing tougher looks would have likely made each game much more competitive in the end.

 

[john1952]

forbesfrosh said​

1. Get Hawkins away from the perimeter on offense.
2. Replace Clark at point guard with Epps.

Something has to change. Seems pretty clear Hawkins is not a point guard and Clark is not getting the job done.

 

[USAFILLINI]

Mizzou came in with a good game plan, and didn’t need to adjust at all

We came in with a game plan and the coaching staff couldn’t adjust as the wheels came off.

I’ll say it again, BU needs to look deep at how he is leading, there’s a reason no one has stepped up to lead on the team.

Good on BU for saying it’s on him, but actions speak louder than words. This team is insanely talented and it’s what makes this thing so frustrating.

 

[BRucks]

We could lose every game the rest of the year and I’d still be an Illini fan. But I don’t really want to root for players who are okay with fans like that. I prefer players who want to win.

I remember early on BU said he liked transfers in the old days - because that would give them an extra year in the system.

I worry that the staff isn’t built like that with NIL. Tim can obviously bring players in. Seems like Brad is more about chemistry and culture.

I don’t know if we’re seeing the fruit of that or not (because I know nothing), but something is amiss.

Maybe the question is: can Brad coach high level NIL ball, or is that not the best way to go??

I have to wonder about the big NIL contributors. How are you feeling about now if you've put several hundred thousand in these players pockets?

 

[ChiefGritty]

I have to wonder about the big NIL contributors. How are you feeling about now if you've put several hundred thousand in these players pockets?

"Unprofessional" is definitely a word that describes our performance last night.

 

[BRucks]

Being from Fort Wayne you know I am a big fan of Luke and believed Brad when he said he was penciled in as a starter. I’m not sure all the insiders did. I was also hoping everyone hyping RJ was legit too. But I didn’t see it. Man, I hope something changes. And thanks for your honest appraisals.

RJ looks like the puppy that got slapped for peeing on the carpet. Talk about poor body language.

 

[BRucks]

We beat Texas, UCLA, and were competitive against Virginia.
What has changed? Coaching? Players?

Opposing coaches now have film on us.

 

[ORANGEANDBLUE2011]

When possible: Epps, Harris, TSJ, Goode, DD. That’s the max effort line up.

 

[FrankNitty30]

I agree with you that our defense is the problem. But Brad said at the beginning of the postgame conference that bad execution on the offensive end is leading to horrible defense.

I think good offense will come from good defense and getting stops, not the other way around.

We’ve got work to do on both sides though that’s for sure.

Agreed. My philosophy is “Defense travels”. We will have bad shooting nights. But our defensive game plan and execution has to be there every night.

Now, underwood is right that poor offensive execution leads to very bad defensive floor balance. It is definitely a yo-yo thing in which each effects the other.

So if I am going to focus on fixing one…. it’s going to be the defense.

 

[FrankNitty30]

I think this is a big part of the offensive issues. CH is just not cut out to be a point fwd. He is a rangy athletic kid that can run and defend just about anybody. His best offense is as the #3 or #4 "sneak attack" that slips into a hole in the D for a quick bunny or layup. Him being out front is a contributing to the stagnant offense.

I agree a little with this. My only hesitation is that if he would knock down ONE top of the key 3 pointer, everything is opened up. But he is too busy pump faking out there. Either “*#%} or get off the pot.” Either shoot it, pass it or attack the basket. No holding, no pump faking, etc

 

[RichardKeenesCousin]

It’s pretty obvious to me that this message board deserves the credit for the UCLA and Texas wins and the players are to blame for the losses.

 

[FrankNitty30]

Earlier in this thread, someone else brought up a similar experience that we saw in the Penn State game as well. I think the focus really needs to be trying to lock down defensively right from the start of the game. Against Penn State and Mizzou, we gave up wide, and I mean wide open looks for three and easy layups/dunks right off the bat, which built their confidence.
Once a team is feeling good and seeing the ball going in, next thing you know they are banking in threes and hitting fadeaway 20 footers with the shot clock expiring. Similar to the Maryland game as well although not quite as extreme.

I'm sure it's easier said than done, and maybe we still lose both games anyway, but getting just a few more stops earlier in the game and forcing tougher looks would have likely made each game much more competitive in the end.

This. I was laughing at some of the shots they were making after awhile. Then we compounded it with our own stupid mistakes.

I called the under the basket inbounds play in which Skyy got beat for the and1. As soon as I saw them line up I said, “Skyy’s guy is going to beat him to the rim.”

Then the sideline out of bounds I. Which the inbounded just streaked to the bucket for a dunk was mind-numbingly stupid.

 

[FrankNitty30]

I have to wonder about the big NIL contributors. How are you feeling about now if you've put several hundred thousand in these players pockets?

Probably like you better keep doing it or we become Northwestern.

 

[JFGsCoffeeMug]

Earlier in this thread, someone else brought up a similar experience that we saw in the Penn State game as well. I think the focus really needs to be trying to lock down defensively right from the start of the game. Against Penn State and Mizzou, we gave up wide, and I mean wide open looks for three and easy layups/dunks right off the bat, which built their confidence.
Once a team is feeling good and seeing the ball going in, next thing you know they are banking in threes and hitting fadeaway 20 footers with the shot clock expiring. Similar to the Maryland game as well although not quite as extreme.

I'm sure it's easier said than done, and maybe we still lose both games anyway, but getting just a few more stops earlier in the game and forcing tougher looks would have likely made each game much more competitive in the end.

You post reminds me of an exchange between Ayo and Trent from two seasons ago:

When they asked him who the best trash talkers in the B1G are, Ayo hesitated before admitting that it's him and Trent. Some people wait until their team is up 10 with 2 minutes left in the game before chirping, but Ayo says he and Trent start even before the tip.

Ayo (talking to Trent within earshot of Trent's defensive assignment): "Trent, you know he not getting none tonight."
Trent (talking to his defensive assignment): "Yeah, your water's shut off."

It doesn't seem like we have enough of that mentality on the roster anymore, and it shows.

 

[Godard]

12 pages and no one has yet proposed that future lotto pick Perrin is the answer?! The board is off its game just like the Illini.

You had me at "fire Brad!"

 

[BRucks]

Probably like you better keep doing it or we become Northwestern.

Big Ten | Men’s Basketball | 2023 Standings

Big Ten Conference 2023 Standings for Men’s Basketball. Also news, schedule, stats and more

bigten.org

 

[FrankNitty30]

Big Ten | Men’s Basketball | 2023 Standings

Big Ten Conference 2023 Standings for Men’s Basketball. Also news, schedule, stats and more

bigten.org

A little more history than just this year.

 

[jumpingjack]

How many uncontested 3's did Miznoz get? 12? 15? How many easy layups and dunks when someone lost their man or got back doored? How many rebounds did they get when only one of them was at the rim with 2 or 3 of our guys? How many loose balls ended up in their hands? That's all effort and focus.

One guy dribbling, one guy cutting, 3 guys standing and watching. Terrible execution. Why BU has a 6-10 guy that can't shoot, can't score inside, can't take anybody off the dribble to create a shot for a teammate initiating the offense is beyond me.

I would not be surprised if there are roster changes next week. Terrible team chemistry.

Hawkins can shoot, score inside and break guys down off the dribble. He's just not doing it.
Why?
Who @#$& knows?
But he's absolutely capable.

 

[BRucks]

A little more history than just this year.View attachment 22313

Is preNIL era data relevant in an NIL era? Do we even know if IlliniNIL>NWNIL?

 

[sacraig]

I heard all preseason how this team had length and slashers who would be getting to the rim all the time. Reliance on the 3? Not with this team. We’ll be running and slashing to the hoop. Well that’s not what we’re seeing. Not sure if the rate of shooting 3s has declined at all, but doesn’t seem like it. Cutting is almost nonexistent.

Everyone talked about the high ceiling for this team, and I thought it had one too. Maybe it still does, but them actually achieving its high ceiling seems like a pie in the sky right now. Players need to forget about all the preseason optimism and glowing articles on their NBA potential and work on raising the floor for this team.

This TEAM has a very high ceiling. This collection of players playing as 5 individuals does not.

Everyone is whining about the schemes on offense of defense but I don't think that's the problem. We aren't even running the schemes we have because we aren't playing as a team.

Chemistry has to be fixed first. No amount of scheming can overcome that.

 

[dbeverly26]

This TEAM has a very high ceiling. This collection of players playing as 5 individuals does not.

Everyone is whining about the schemes on offense of defense but I don't think that's the problem. We aren't even running the schemes we have because we aren't playing as a team.

Chemistry has to be fixed first. No amount of scheming can overcome that.

The pack line is famous for requiring neither effort nor teamwork to execute successfully, right?

 

[Govoner Vaugn Fan]

This TEAM has a very high ceiling. This collection of players playing as 5 individuals does not.

Everyone is whining about the schemes on offense of defense but I don't think that's the problem. We aren't even running the schemes we have because we aren't playing as a team.

Chemistry has to be fixed first. No amount of scheming can overcome that.

Give Perrin heavy minutes immediately. He doesn't know any of the schemes, so he should fit right in with most of the starters.