Alabama

[BMoreIllini]

It seems several people posting here haven't read the articles or what @Emerson Bigguns posted. (What a surprise we can't be bothered to try to gather facts before forming an opinion). When I heard the story initially, I thought it was looking REALLY bad for Miller and Alabama. I had assumed Miller was home or elsewhere and specifically retrieved the gun for Miles. Upon reading some articles and what @Emerson Bigguns posted from Alabama sites, I think Miller deserves some benefit of the doubt assuming the following is true:
1) He was with the Miles and Davis earlier and Miles had left his *legally owned* gun in Miller's car.
2) Miller returned to give Miles his gun back and rather than intentionally blocking the parking lot exit, he was pulling up to that spot just to get out of the way of traffic so Davis or Miles could get the gun. If you look at "The Strip" and the location where it happened, it makes sense to me that he'd pull into that spot to get out of the way of traffic and easily be able to pull back out onto University Blvd.
3) The shooting happened so quickly upon Miles and Davis getting the gun from the car that Miller hadn't had time/didn't realize what was about to happen.
4) Miller wasn't aware of the immediate escalated conflict and proximity between Miles/Davis and Harris.

Maybe I'm naïve, but there's a specific sequence of events that may have put Miller in a tough spot. Should he have returned the gun to a friend that had in all likelihood been drinking? Probably not, but was he uncomfortable having Miles gun in his car without Miles with him? I think there's a good chance. We don't have all the facts, we probably never will, but I think it's hard to condemn a 20 year old and ruin his future with the current facts at hand.

 

[Bbuck21]

I truly believe we would have handled this differently at UI. I know that sounds very judgemental, and possibly naive, but I just think the player would not have been back on the court immediately after being involved in, however tangentially, a murder. Since he isn't charged with anything, I think the next question has to be how is the student coping with it, and how does this affect, and reflect upon, our school and our program. I think it looks better for the student to be held out for at least a few games, in deference to the victim. It doesn't even have to be administered as a punishment to the student, but as a chance for the young man to reflect, receive counseling, and absorb what he has been involved in. Taking the court right away just reinforces the idea that it doesn't affect him and isn't an issue, which may not be what he is actually thinking and feeling himself. All we see is the student getting to play "as if it makes no difference to him," and that is not fair to anyone involved, especially the young woman whose life was taken.

I'm quite certain that it would be handled differently at Illinois. Certainly different degrees of transgressions and not necesarrily comparable to Miller's situtation, but off the top of my head I think of: Jamar Smith/Carlwell, Darius Paul, Leron Black, Rayvonte Rice/Cosby... And these were for off court, away from team activities.

 

[CV Illini]

It seems several people posting here haven't read the articles or what @Emerson Bigguns posted. (What a surprise we can't be bothered to try to gather facts before forming an opinion). When I heard the story initially, I thought it was looking REALLY bad for Miller and Alabama. I had assumed Miller was home or elsewhere and specifically retrieved the gun for Miles. Upon reading some articles and what @Emerson Bigguns posted from Alabama sites, I think Miller deserves some benefit of the doubt assuming the following is true:
1) He was with the Miles and Davis earlier and Miles had left his *legally owned* gun in Miller's car.
2) Miller returned to give Miles his gun back and rather than intentionally blocking the parking lot exit, he was pulling up to that spot just to get out of the way of traffic so Davis or Miles could get the gun. If you look at "The Strip" and the location where it happened, it makes sense to me that he'd pull into that spot to get out of the way of traffic and easily be able to pull back out onto University Blvd.
3) The shooting happened so quickly upon Miles and Davis getting the gun from the car that Miller hadn't had time/didn't realize what was about to happen.
4) Miller wasn't aware of the immediate escalated conflict and proximity between Miles/Davis and Harris.

Maybe I'm naïve, but there's a specific sequence of events that may have put Miller in a tough spot. Should he have returned the gun to a friend that had in all likelihood been drinking? Probably not, but was he uncomfortable having Miles gun in his car without Miles with him? I think there's a good chance. We don't have all the facts, we probably never will, but I think it's hard to condemn a 20 year old and ruin his future with the current facts at hand.

Good post, but someone died as a result of the gun being delivered to the location. I agree that we shouldn’t condemn a 20 year old and ruin his life, but until all facts come out he should not be on the basketball court. I’m thankful, as a fan base, we aren’t having to deal with something of this severity but I would be against one of our players suiting up. At the very least it was an extremely bad decision and bad decisions get players suspended all the time. Decisions that don’t lead to the death of a young mother.

 

[illini0440]

This whole case is sad. Oates is a win at all costs kind of guy it appears. Why I always will have a huge amount of respect for John Groce, he signed his own pink slip doing what he thought was right.

All coaches at that level are win at all costs….they make millions and will do whatever they can to make sure they keep those millions coming in. Groce is no different(like the guy) he tried every road imaginable to get Kendrick in the clear. There just was no Avenue that would do that.

 

[Bbuck21]

It seems several people posting here haven't read the articles or what @Emerson Bigguns posted. (What a surprise we can't be bothered to try to gather facts before forming an opinion). When I heard the story initially, I thought it was looking REALLY bad for Miller and Alabama. I had assumed Miller was home or elsewhere and specifically retrieved the gun for Miles. Upon reading some articles and what @Emerson Bigguns posted from Alabama sites, I think Miller deserves some benefit of the doubt assuming the following is true:
1) He was with the Miles and Davis earlier and Miles had left his *legally owned* gun in Miller's car.
2) Miller returned to give Miles his gun back and rather than intentionally blocking the parking lot exit, he was pulling up to that spot just to get out of the way of traffic so Davis or Miles could get the gun. If you look at "The Strip" and the location where it happened, it makes sense to me that he'd pull into that spot to get out of the way of traffic and easily be able to pull back out onto University Blvd.
3) The shooting happened so quickly upon Miles and Davis getting the gun from the car that Miller hadn't had time/didn't realize what was about to happen.
4) Miller wasn't aware of the immediate escalated conflict and proximity between Miles/Davis and Harris.

Maybe I'm naïve, but there's a specific sequence of events that may have put Miller in a tough spot. Should he have returned the gun to a friend that had in all likelihood been drinking? Probably not, but was he uncomfortable having Miles gun in his car without Miles with him? I think there's a good chance. We don't have all the facts, we probably never will, but I think it's hard to condemn a 20 year old and ruin his future with the current facts at hand.

I agree we do not know all the facts. And I don't think most posters are condemning Miller. I think most people here are questioning Oats' handling of the situation.

 

[TCTORNADO]

This whole situation describes Alabama to a T.

U.S. News says Alabama is the #46 ranked state, just ahead of WV. Is that bad??

 

[chrisRunner7]

U.S. News says Alabama is the #46 ranked state, just ahead of WV. Is that bad??

Unfortunate

 

[Se Il Illini]

Of course you can't control kids 24/7, but that doesn't mean you can't take away playing time or enforce other discipline if they violate team rules. It's very hard for me to believe there is not some provision of team rules or the University Code of Conduct that is applicable to actions which are dangerous and detrimental even if they don't rise to the level of a crime. At a minimum, you might think Alabama would want to send a message that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. But, apparently, the behavior is not only tolerated, it is accepted.

Also, the comments you mention about controlling student-athletes were in Oats' initial comments, not the clarification. The comments were roundly criticized as tone deaf, and Oats later called those initial remarks “unfortunate,” which led to the "clarification."

Absolutely no argument. I did not express an opinion one way or the other. I just reported what he said. In no way was I trying to justify what Oats said or how the administration has responded.

 

[jjv0004]

Full disclosure. I am a diehard Bama and diehard Illini fan. And no, I am not a frontrunner. My great grandpa and grandpa had homes in Summerdale, Alabama about 25 minutes from Gulf Shores. My great uncle was the general manager of Marriot's Grand Hotel in Point Clear and was friends with Bear Bryant. I also married a Bama graduate. My Illini fandom is from growing up outside Peoria. My grandparent's lived next door to Kevin Bontemps; for those of you old enough to even know that name. He was a senior in high school at that time and I was probably in about 5th grade. He used to let me shoot with him.

Anyway, Nate Oats botched this and should have thought about his words before he butchered his response. I am disgusted by what he said. Why in the world the AD Greg Byrne did not handle the response from the university is beyond me. But, Brandon Miller is a good kid. These are the facts laid out by his attorney, which have been corroborated. I think people have jumped the gun as usual without having all the information.

Standridge went on to give Miller’s account of what happened the night of the shooting. The full statement can be seen below:

On January 14th Brandon played in a basketball game in the afternoon and later was asked by Darius Miles for a ride to the Strip area to go to a night club. Mr. Miles brought his legal handgun and left it in the back seat of Brandon’s vehicle. Brandon never saw the handgun nor handled it. Further, it is our understanding that the weapon was concealed under some clothing in the back seat of his car.
Brandon did not go inside the nightclub. Instead, he left and went to a restaurant to eat. At approximately midnight, Mr. Miles began asking Brandon to come pick him up so that they could leave and go to another location and join friends. Brandon advised that he would be along later, and, approximately one hour later, Brandon began to leave the restaurant to pick up Mr. Miles, but first had to give another companion a ride home.
Before Brandon arrived to pick up Mr. Miles, Mr. Miles and the individual with Ms. Harris apparently exchanged words. Without Brandon knowing any of this context, and as Brandon was already on the way to pick up Mr. Miles, Mr. Miles texted Brandon and asked him to bring him his firearm. Brandon subsequently arrived at the scene to pick up Mr. Miles. Brandon never got out of his vehicle or interacted with anyone in Ms. Harris’ party. He was never involved in a verbal altercation with Cedric Johnson or Mr. Davis. Brandon never touched the gun, was not involved in its exchange to Mr. Davis in any way, and never knew that illegal activity involving the gun would occur.
Brandon did not block the jeep driven by Mr. Johnson. In fact, Brandon had already parked on Grace Street when the jeep pulled up behind him. The street was never blocked by Brandon’s vehicle. Gunfire erupted shortly after the jeep arrived and Brandon’s vehicle was struck by bullets fired from one of the guns. Brandon quickly left the area when gunfire erupted. As soon as he was notified that someone had been injured and the police wished to speak with him, he has fully cooperated with law enforcement’s investigation.
All of the events described above are clearly captured on video. There is no dispute about Brandon’s activities during this evening.
Brandon has submitted to multiple interviews to assist law enforcement in further understanding the situation, he has volunteered to have his phone contents extracted as well as that of the contents of his automobile. He will continue to cooperate as any citizen should who has witnessed a serious incident. Brandon does not own a firearm and has never even handled a firearm. Moreover, he had no knowledge of any intent to use any weapon.

 

[Mr. Roberts]

Standridge went on to give Miller’s account of what happened the night of the shooting. The full statement can be seen below:

"Mr. Miles texted Brandon and asked him to bring him his firearm. "

This is where the "Brandon Miller is a good kid" argument isn't enough. When someone texts and says bring my gun to me at the nightclub, alarm bells need to go off. This was an incredibly bad decision by Miller, at best. This bad of a decision should have some sort of consequence, imho.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

Full disclosure. I am a diehard Bama and diehard Illini fan. And no, I am not a frontrunner. My great grandpa and grandpa had homes in Summerdale, Alabama about 25 minutes from Gulf Shores. My great uncle was the general manager of Marriot's Grand Hotel in Point Clear and was friends with Bear Bryant. I also married a Bama graduate. My Illini fandom is from growing up outside Peoria. My grandparent's lived next door to Kevin Bontemps; for those of you old enough to even know that name. He was a senior in high school at that time and I was probably in about 5th grade. He used to let me shoot with him.

Anyway, Nate Oats botched this and should have thought about his words before he butchered his response. I am disgusted by what he said. Why in the world the AD Greg Byrne did not handle the response from the university is beyond me. But, Brandon Miller is a good kid. These are the facts laid out by his attorney, which have been corroborated. I think people have jumped the gun as usual without having all the information.

Standridge went on to give Miller’s account of what happened the night of the shooting. The full statement can be seen below:

I would be a terrible juror because unless there was empirical evidence (video, text messages, etc.) I could absolutely buy this (assuming extremely well paid) defense attorney's account. At the very least I wouldn't convict.

 

[Battle89]

"Mr. Miles texted Brandon and asked him to bring him his firearm. "

This is where the "Brandon Miller is a good kid" argument isn't enough. When someone texts and says bring my gun to me at the nightclub, alarm bells need to go off. This was an incredibly bad decision by Miller, at best. This bad of a decision should have some sort of consequence, imho.

It’s also weaselly lawyer-speak. (Not condemning all attorneys here!)

It’s ‘Mr. Miles’ this and ‘Ms. Harris’ that, but Miller is referred to as Brandon throughout. Calculated to make him appear more human, vulnerable, innocent.

 

[GBIllini]

I would be a terrible juror because unless there was empirical evidence (video, text messages, etc.) I could absolutely buy this (assuming extremely well paid) defense attorney's account. At the very least I wouldn't convict.

He probably wouldn't get convicted of anything for basically a very poor decision and error of judgment. However I think he could be very easily be charged as an accessory to murder if they wanted to pursue it. He handed his friend a gun who immediately began shooting at someone murdering them. How this does not violate team or school policies is ridiculous.

 

[USAFILLINI]

Full disclosure. I am a diehard Bama and diehard Illini fan. And no, I am not a frontrunner. My great grandpa and grandpa had homes in Summerdale, Alabama about 25 minutes from Gulf Shores. My great uncle was the general manager of Marriot's Grand Hotel in Point Clear and was friends with Bear Bryant. I also married a Bama graduate. My Illini fandom is from growing up outside Peoria. My grandparent's lived next door to Kevin Bontemps; for those of you old enough to even know that name. He was a senior in high school at that time and I was probably in about 5th grade. He used to let me shoot with him.

Anyway, Nate Oats botched this and should have thought about his words before he butchered his response. I am disgusted by what he said. Why in the world the AD Greg Byrne did not handle the response from the university is beyond me. But, Brandon Miller is a good kid. These are the facts laid out by his attorney, which have been corroborated. I think people have jumped the gun as usual without having all the information.

Standridge went on to give Miller’s account of what happened the night of the shooting. The full statement can be seen below:

He asked him to bring him his gun, and he did. Lawyer can spin it to where its not illegal, but there's zero way you can spin this to where he is "good kid". He was one step away from being an accomplice to murder. Don't know many good kids that have that issue. We get Alabama doesn't care unless hes charged, but that's not the type of behavior I would want to represent my university. If Bama wasn't a top ten team, and he wasn't a draft pick, he would be suspended, dont kid yourself.

Turning a blind eye to a situation so your star player can remain playing when a woman/mom lost her life in a situation HE WAS involved in is absolutely disgusting.

 

[blackdog]

I would be a terrible juror because unless there was empirical evidence (video, text messages, etc.) I could absolutely buy this (assuming extremely well paid) defense attorney's account. At the very least I wouldn't convict.

Isn't that the whole point of innocent until proven guilty? Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

 

[jjv0004]

He asked him to bring him his gun, and he did. Lawyer can spin it to where its not illegal, but there's zero way you can spin this to where he is "good kid". He was one step away from being an accomplice to murder. Don't know many good kids that have that issue. We get Alabama doesn't care unless hes charged, but that's not the type of behavior I would want to represent my university. If Bama wasn't a top ten team, and he wasn't a draft pick, he would be suspended, dont kid yourself.

Turning a blind eye to a situation so your star player can remain playing when a woman/mom lost her life in a situation HE WAS involved in is absolutely disgusting.

Re-read the statement again from the attorney. He was already on the way to pick him up. He was not going there to give him the gun. He was already going to pick him up. He was not going there to drop off the gun. One step away from being an accomplice? He had no idea what had gone on or that anything had happened.

 

[eas23]

I would be a terrible juror because unless there was empirical evidence (video, text messages, etc.) I could absolutely buy this (assuming extremely well paid) defense attorney's account. At the very least I wouldn't convict.

The actual instructions and paperwork that jurors are given basically lays this out and in exact detail and is often the reason why circumstancially guilty people are not convicted.

 

[aaeismacgychel]

Re-read the statement again from the attorney. He was already on the way to pick him up. He was not going there to give him the gun. He was already going to pick him up. He was not going there to drop off the gun. One step away from being an accomplice? He had no idea what had gone on or that anything had happened.

I think there are a few viewpoints that are being argued in this thread that are based off of different focuses that aren't necessarily as contradictory as they appear: The first being what actually happened; The second being how what happened could be argued by the DA and the police in favor of charging Miller; The third being reasonable doubt/presumed innocence of Miller; The fourth being how Alabama and Oates is handling this situation; And the fifth being how a jury might view the situation.

I think it's fair to say that the State and Miller/Attorney would have very different arguments about Miller's role in this had they decided to charge Miller. For example, Miller and his attorney will argue he was simply returning Miles' property, further exemplified by it being a firearm that he did not want in his possession and this was simply meant to be a drop off to get it out of his possession. The DA could theoretically argue that Miller was technically in possession of the firearm at the time, knew Miles had a tendency to be a hothead, saw he was angry and possibly in an argument, and gave him the gun anyways that directly preceded the murder. Again, I'm not saying this would happen, but it's just an example of what could be argued.

Inside a courtroom, the sad truth is that things are rarely cut and dry even in "open and shut" cases. In trial by jury, some individual jurors will come in with a prejudicial bias that can cause issues and jurors tend to be more swayed by the lawyer that has better presentation of their argument, and this can especially be the case in a murder case as the DA often will "shock" jurors with the ugly crime scene and how they frame the defendant. "The truth of what happened" sadly often doesn't fully see the light of day in the courtroom.

So really all I'm saying is that your view that there is clear reasonable doubt, and Miller shouldn't be charged is indeed a valid argument. And the viewpoint that Miller could in theory have been charged in this case is also a fairly valid argument. They aren't mutually exclusive arguments. Now the arguments about his character, those are assumptions we probably shouldn't venture too far into, as the vast majority of us don't know the kid or who he really is in person.

 

[Travis1173]

As a Tennessee graduate, I personally think Alabama athletics should be given the SMU treatment over this. Get Jon Taffer and SHUT IT DOWN.

 

[Rap47]

It’s easy to blame Alabama, and they should be blamed for tone-deafness and winning at all costs.

However, regarding Miller, I COULD see wrong place wrong time.

Preface: I didn’t grow up in a culture/area where handguns were prevalent. Some people do, it’s terrible but unfortunately a normal part of America in some areas.

If my friend texted me and said: “I left my gun in your backseat, can you swing by and drop it off”, maybe that’s a normal thing. If it was me, I would want to get somebody else’s weapon out of my car ASAP.

If I went hunting with buddies, and he left his hunting rifle in the back of the truck, later realized it and texted for me to swing by and drop it off, I wouldn’t have a second thought about it.

Again, it could be that his friend made a terrible and idiotic decision and Miller was literally wrong place/wrong time. It’s possible.

Going forward, I would definitely re-evaluate who I hang out with considering I’m about to be a top 5 NBA pick and multi-millionaire in 5 months if I was Brandon Miller.

At midnight?

 

[EllderIlliniFan]

From reading most of the posts, everyone has already decided if he is a bad guy or not such a bad guy and picked out those items to support their already predetermined point of view. If you support him, bring out the defense attorneys statements. If you do not support him, down grade the defense attorneys statements and bring in other points of view. Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up. The fact that he has not been charged by those who have access to a great deal more information than any of us seems to support his lack of involvement unless there is favortism on the part of the police or district attorney. Usually they charge everyone remotely involved as a strategy to trade reduced or dropped charges for testimony against others more directly involved. However, Brandon has apparently already fully cooperated so there is nothing additional to extract from him.

 

[Kinkyfish]

U.S. News says Alabama is the #46 ranked state, just ahead of WV. Is that bad??

Propert taxes are ridiculously low for what that’s worth.

 

[OrangeLife]

It seems several people posting here haven't read the articles or what @Emerson Bigguns posted. (What a surprise we can't be bothered to try to gather facts before forming an opinion). When I heard the story initially, I thought it was looking REALLY bad for Miller and Alabama. I had assumed Miller was home or elsewhere and specifically retrieved the gun for Miles. Upon reading some articles and what @Emerson Bigguns posted from Alabama sites, I think Miller deserves some benefit of the doubt assuming the following is true:
1) He was with the Miles and Davis earlier and Miles had left his *legally owned* gun in Miller's car.
2) Miller returned to give Miles his gun back and rather than intentionally blocking the parking lot exit, he was pulling up to that spot just to get out of the way of traffic so Davis or Miles could get the gun. If you look at "The Strip" and the location where it happened, it makes sense to me that he'd pull into that spot to get out of the way of traffic and easily be able to pull back out onto University Blvd.
3) The shooting happened so quickly upon Miles and Davis getting the gun from the car that Miller hadn't had time/didn't realize what was about to happen.
4) Miller wasn't aware of the immediate escalated conflict and proximity between Miles/Davis and Harris.

Maybe I'm naïve, but there's a specific sequence of events that may have put Miller in a tough spot. Should he have returned the gun to a friend that had in all likelihood been drinking? Probably not, but was he uncomfortable having Miles gun in his car without Miles with him? I think there's a good chance. We don't have all the facts, we probably never will, but I think it's hard to condemn a 20 year old and ruin his future with the current facts at hand.

I appreciate your take, but I am skeptical. Why would he have a gun with him for a night out? This smells bad in a lot of ways. When the explanations seems a stretch, it is usually not true. No dog in this fight, just hope the truth comes out for the young woman and her family.

 

[Boomauer]

I truly believe we would have handled this differently at UI. I know that sounds very judgemental, and possibly naive, but I just think the player would not have been back on the court immediately after being involved in, however tangentially, a murder. Since he isn't charged with anything, I think the next question has to be how is the student coping with it, and how does this affect, and reflect upon, our school and our program. I think it looks better for the student to be held out for at least a few games, in deference to the victim. It doesn't even have to be administered as a punishment to the student, but as a chance for the young man to reflect, receive counseling, and absorb what he has been involved in. Taking the court right away just reinforces the idea that it doesn't affect him and isn't an issue, which may not be what he is actually thinking and feeling himself. All we see is the student getting to play "as if it makes no difference to him," and that is not fair to anyone involved, especially the young woman whose life was taken.

Well...the young man scored 41 points last night so it appears he's handling the situation quite well.

 

[GBIllini]

I appreciate your take, but I am skeptical. Why would he have a gun with him for a night out? This smells bad in a lot of ways. When the explanations seems a stretch, it is usually not true. No dog in this fight, just hope the truth comes out for the young woman and her family.

That is something everyone needs to ask themselves. If that was your daughter how would you feel.