Illini Basketball 2022-2023

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#401      
The NBA is absolutely a legit option for Shannon. He's most likely a 2nd round pick, would probably do well in the draft process, and should reasonably expect to occupy an NBA roster spot next season, and probably doesn't have a ton of upside coming back for another year (unlike Coleman Hawkins IMO who has room to elevate himself in scouts eyes).

It's a surprise if Shannon comes back, I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.

And it is natural to compare that to Kofi, for whom the NIL money he left on the table was unequivocally the largest remaining earning potential in his basketball career.

The world is a mysterious place.

Shannon’s stock has tanked last couple weeks IMO. His ball handling is below average right now and he doesn’t shoot the three well enough to be a 3 and D guy. I think he’s decent defensively right now but honestly I expect more out of him on that end. He really needs to become a stopper.
 
#402      
The NBA is absolutely a legit option for Shannon. He's most likely a 2nd round pick, would probably do well in the draft process, and should reasonably expect to occupy an NBA roster spot next season, and probably doesn't have a ton of upside coming back for another year (unlike Coleman Hawkins IMO who has room to elevate himself in scouts eyes).

It's a surprise if Shannon comes back, I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.

And it is natural to compare that to Kofi, for whom the NIL money he left on the table was unequivocally the largest remaining earning potential in his basketball career.

The world is a mysterious place.
Err…couldn’t we just say it’s not a surprise because Shannon isn’t a second round lock and his NIL could be above what G-Leaguers make?
 
#403      
Vet point and a couple of shooters/wings and this team will be looking good for next year. If Dain leaves they will get a 5 man in the portal as well
What will be interesting is how the staff approaches the portal this year. I’m not sure the philosophy of getting experienced guys from power 5 conference teams looking for expanded roles, and treating the season as their opportunity to audition for the NBA is the best approach, especially if “team” and “culture” are important. Perhaps taking guys in the portal who were starters from mid-majors is the way to go in the future. Guys like Pickett, Funk and Rebrecca sure make a strong case for adopting this approach to the portal.
 
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#404      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
The NBA is absolutely a legit option for Shannon. He's most likely a 2nd round pick, would probably do well in the draft process, and should reasonably expect to occupy an NBA roster spot next season, and probably doesn't have a ton of upside coming back for another year (unlike Coleman Hawkins IMO who has room to elevate himself in scouts eyes).

It's a surprise if Shannon comes back, I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.

And it is natural to compare that to Kofi, for whom the NIL money he left on the table was unequivocally the largest remaining earning potential in his basketball career.

The world is a mysterious place.

He's played himself into a G League role, after vaulting into late first round territory. Could he make a team? Sure, it's possible. But I also think it's very unlikely. Things would have to really break his way. Longer term? Abs-o-lutely. He's got a lot of tools, just needs to make some tweaks.
 
#405      
Shannon’s stock has tanked last couple weeks IMO. His ball handling is below average right now and he doesn’t shoot the three well enough to be a 3 and D guy. I think he’s decent defensively right now but honestly I expect more out of him on that end. He really needs to become a stopper.
That's a good point, both the 3 and D are lacking for Shannon to cut it in the NBA. I would love to have him back though, I think there would be a lot of potential for him stepping as a leader as well having a year in the program under his belt. You saw signs with him trying to keep RJ from potentially getting a taunting technical after the big dunk late in the game.

There were stories about him trying to be a leader in the offseason, but it's just harder to get everyone to follow you when you are brand new to the team. TSJ, Coleman, Goode and Ty would be strong pillars to build the program from a leadership perspective.
 
#406      

Tacomallini

Washington State
Not trying to knock you (@pruman91 … aka MM) too hard, but for a kid that came in wanting to be Big10 DPOY he sure did pick and choose a lot of when he wanted to show up vs. when he wanted to just go through the motions on D. He had some awesome games, but to act like you care as much as you say in your talk, it unfortunately wasn’t in his inner self. Want the best for him… you (😂) but I’m sad to say I’m glad it’s time to move on.

Sad Friends Tv GIF
Pru is pounding NLs, not Monsters
 
#407      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Shannon’s stock has tanked last couple weeks IMO. His ball handling is below average right now and he doesn’t shoot the three well enough to be a 3 and D guy. I think he’s decent defensively right now but honestly I expect more out of him on that end. He really needs to become a stopper.
Err…couldn’t we just say it’s not a surprise because Shannon isn’t a second round lock and his NIL could be above what G-Leaguers make?

I'm just going based on what I'm reading and seeing with scouts and mock drafts and the like, folks.

A couple things to keep in mind

1. NBA scouts will have absolutely zero recency bias. The awesome Shannon from the holiday period gets equal weight to the brick and turnover machine of recent games. Maybe even more weight because some of those games were against fellow NBA prospects. Shannon's tape against UCLA will have the opposite effect of Ayo's tape against Baylor.

2. Shannon's game is pitch-perfect for the modern NBA. That's a separate question from whether he's good enough. But the things he does on a basketball floor are tuned to the pro game more than the college game and the only thing NBA scouts care about is demonstration of the skills privileged by the pro game.

And of course Shannon is a guy who athletic testing is going to like, and who is going to look good to the eye test in a workout environment.

None of this is a surprise. 2nd roundish range is what his draft stock has looked like for years. In stepping into a larger role at Illinois you saw both why he has NBA scouts attention and also why they aren't willing to bet on him higher up the draft.

God knows this board and college basketball fans in general have decried the "unfairness" of the NBA draft process for decades. It offends our sensibilities that a player like Terrence Shannon could be treated as an equal of someone like Ayo Dosunmu. But that's the reality, the fact that he's been a narrative failure as a Big Ten alpha dog is utterly meaningless because the Big Ten is nothing like the NBA. And there's no comparison whatsoever to Kofi, whose slim and contingent NBA scout curiosity was unequivocally and irrevocably 100% gone by February of last season.
 
#408      
A few hot takes my son overheard from an Illinois fan sitting by him at the game yesterday.

Dain will enter the portal shortly.
Texas is going to offer UW big bucks to leave Illinois.
First choice for new coach is Sean Miller.
1/3 ain't bad! Sounds like that fan reads this forum but isn't getting all the info right.
 
#409      
Kofi's in Japan my dude. There was never the slightest chance he was getting drafted, regardless of what some were pretending to themselves at the time. Great basketball player, totally unplayable in the game the NBA has become.

Shannon might have an NBA future. His game is better suited to the NBA than college.

And if anything Kofi's NIL opportunities were bigger. Thus my comment.
Kofi was just done with school. Sometimes, in the world of NIL and portal, we forget the educational aspect of the equation. He wanted to get paid and didn't want the added work that came with it. Most guys will take the NIL money if the draft stock isn't there. TSJ has to prove that he can go right and really needs to work on his midrange game. That can be done at the college level, but it gets you buried into the G-League....for less money.
 
#411      
As someone who grew up in an environment where yelling for motivation was not abnormal, I could deal with it. However, as I grew up and became more cognizant of people's reactions and emotions around me, I changed how I motivate, punish, and empower impressionable youth around me to adapt to what best suits each individual.

Do I think there are situation where motivational yelling has a place? I do. However, I also think basketball is a small enough team size to individualize how you talk to each player and try to get the most out of them. Tough love won't reach everyone.

That being said, I've also run in to situations where you treat everyone so individualized and they perceive things as favoritism if a kid has a thicker skin and get called out and someone's weak mental gets pat in the back. I don't envy the coaches and I have to trust they know what they're doing.
I could be wrong, but I think there were more than a few of the BU yelling instances where it was a result of someone not listening or paying attention to him that set him off more. I know one in particular with Hawkins where the camera shows Brad calmly telling him to "shoot it". Hawkins is off camera but then suddenly Brad goes off so I can only assume it was because Hawkins ignored him or talked back, etc. Other times include him yelling and whichever player is straight up not even looking at him so that doesn't ever help. If they would look him in the eye and listen maybe he would calm TF down.

Agree Brad maybe needs to be aware of how he deals with individual players...different people don't always react the same way to just screaming all the time. I know in high school sports I would tend to shut down a little if I ever got screamed at like that so it had the opposite effect of motivating me.
 
#412      
I think the Mayer bashing has been a little heavy handed. The last three games, especially today were disasters for sure, but I'm seeing people say the season would have been better if he never came here. A lot of the reason the team won 20 games again and made the tourney at all was because of Mayer and he played a big role in many of the season's bright spots.

In the Texas win, the MSU win, at Wisconsin, Michigan, we don't win those games without him. And a big reason for RJ bouncing back from his lowest point was when Mayer gave him the hug right after the miss to tie the game at Indiana. They don't just put you on the Big Ten third team because they like your hair.

He was undeniably frustrating and he deserved to sit the second half because of his play against Arkansas, but let's not say he didn't help the team this season.
He helped. Unfortunately he quit after Ohio State game or half thru the game and never showed back up
 
#413      

sacraig

The desert
What will be interesting is how the staff approaches the portal this year. I’m not sure the philosophy of getting experienced guys from power 5 conference teams looking for expanded roles, and treating the season as their opportunity to audition for the NBA is the best approach, especially if “team” and “culture” are important. Perhaps taking guys in the portal who were starters from mid-majors is the way to go in the future. Guys like Pickett, Funk and Rebrecca sure make a strong case for adopting this approach to the portal.
I've had some similar thoughts but would expand that to people from P5 teams with multiple years of eligibility left, i.e. they aren't just looking for a 1 year NBA audition.
 
#414      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
TSJ has to prove that he can go right and really needs to work on his midrange game. That can be done at the college level, but it gets you buried into the G-League....for less money.
The NBA is full of development projects like that. That's every bench in the league now. And of course increasingly a lot of those guys get some exposure to the G-League as well, while, critically, making their full NBA salary.

In a vacuum, the pros are the best place to hone your game and improve, doing it on a full time basis with purely ball-focused coaches and against top competition.

If Shannon comes back that tells me that he believes the Illinois staff (Fletch looming large, IMO) presents the best opportunity to get better for Terrence Shannon specifically, which is entirely possible in his specific case even if IN GENERAL going pro is the higher percentage move.

Shannon needs to get better and more complete to have a long NBA career and become a durable multimillionaire as a basketball player. He has the opportunity to do that under NBA tutelage, and it's great news for our program if he decides Illinois the better option.
 
#415      
The NBA is full of development projects like that. That's every bench in the league now. And of course increasingly a lot of those guys get some exposure to the G-League as well, while, critically, making their full NBA salary.

In a vacuum, the pros are the best place to hone your game and improve, doing it on a full time basis with purely ball-focused coaches and against top competition.

If Shannon comes back that tells me that he believes the Illinois staff (Fletch looming large, IMO) presents the best opportunity to get better for Terrence Shannon specifically, which is entirely possible in his specific case even if IN GENERAL going pro is the higher percentage move.

Shannon needs to get better and more complete to have a long NBA career and become a durable multimillionaire as a basketball player. He has the opportunity to do that under NBA tutelage, and it's great news for our program if he decides Illinois the better option.
I don't disagree with you or am at least seeing where you're coming from as far as development. Now, I have no clue what a second rounder makes via a highly paid NIL recipient. To me, there in lies the decision.
 
#416      
Kofi's in Japan my dude. There was never the slightest chance he was getting drafted, regardless of what some were pretending to themselves at the time. Great basketball player, totally unplayable in the game the NBA has become.

Shannon might have an NBA future. His game is better suited to the NBA than college.

And if anything Kofi's NIL opportunities were bigger. Thus my comment.
Regardless of how realistic his chances were, Kofi certainly viewed himself as an NBA player. Declared after each season until he ran out of withdraws, hinted Underwood was the one holding him back because winning games in college didn't overlap significantly with developing him as an NBA prospect.
 
#419      
See Syracuse game … More freedom offensively 🙄

There’s a reason his top choice is a team that didn’t even get 5 wins last year … He don’t wanna play team ball … 🤷🏻‍♂️

Brad handled this whole situation better than I would’ve … All I’ve gotta say about that
Brad’s public comments about Skyy, and really the entire Clark family, were consistently classy and positive. He always said the right things. That certainly was not reciprocated.
 
#421      
2 different teams had been given the heads up about Dain going into this game. Can Brad convince them to stay? Not saying it's impossible but doesn't help the team dynamic that's for sure. Epps has been on red alert from his teammates and coaches since he refused to go back in the northwestern game. This team's been a dumpster fire since Mayer punched Skyy.

What happened with Epps? Your posting on 1/28 said he was super bought in on the program and the culture. Why did he refuse to go back in the northwestern game. Makes no sense.
 
#422      
Still bullish on Brad.

Jay Wright had 6 first weekend exits (including a tournament miss entirely) in a row before his NCAA championship. Fran McCaffery, also consistent at making the tournament, never made it out of the first weekend. I am thinking (and hoping) Brad can be somewhere there in between them.
 
#423      
Shannon is going to turn 23 this summer and there's more to NBA athleticism than just being able to throw down a monster dunk.

If he comes back, there's a reason for it.
 
#424      
That will be addressed in the portal. I would expect 3-4 transfers even if Coleman and TJ come back because one or two guys will likely transfer
I understand that yearly transfers and the portal are the new norm in college basketball. However, I truly dislike it. I felt no personal connection with this team this year in large part because of the transfers and hired gun mentality. In the past, I enjoyed watching freshmen and the team grow as they progressed through the years. I am afraid that has irrevocably changed. Maybe I am just getting old and turning into a grumpy old man 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
#425      
I understand that yearly transfers and the portal are the new norm in college basketball. However, I truly dislike it. I felt no personal connection with this team this year in large part because of the transfers and hired gun mentality. In the past, I enjoyed watching freshmen and the team grow as they progressed through the years. I am afraid that has irrevocably changed. Maybe I am just getting old and turning into a grumpy old man 🤷🏻‍♂️
Welcome to the club brother!
 
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