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Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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It’s a valid concern. Chemistry begins with summer workouts and the trip to Spain in August. That’s crucial IF he’s potentially the starting pg heading into the season.
Govoner Vaugn Fan
- New Orleans
Beyond the physical rehab, there is always a mental hurdle to overcome when returning from Achilles injuries and torn ACL. These injuries normally occur when an athlete makes a sudden change of direction type of move and tension on the cartilage or tendon is simply too much to absorb. For some people, once the physical healing takes place.... they are good to go. But in many athletes there is something in the brain that throws up an instant red flag when explosive moves are attempted.... a red flag saying 'uh-uh don't do that move again'.
I suspect that was one of Skyy's issues last year (among other issues). I always felt DMFW lost some of the explosiveness he showed in HS after recovering from his ACL injury. DMFW did a lot of other things to make up for it, but I always wondered what he could have been had the ACL tear never happened
I went to school with monte and know him personally. before the injury he was a monster i felt he could have been an all time great illini
Because you can’t play in Spain with the team doesn’t mean you can’t travel with the team and build chemistry.
It’s certainly valid, but even the trip to August is still a couple months away. A lot of progress can be made in that time.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
If you were hiring someone for your company, wouldn't you want someone who has spent 2-3 years doing the job you're hiring for, even if they worked for a different company before and didn't necessarily know all of your systems and processes? Wouldn't you expect they will be able to pick those things up just as quickly, if not more quickly, than a brand new person who's never held that role before? Wouldn't you expect them to bring experience from the other company that might help your department, or even help you as the boss? From a basketball knowledge, experience, and maturity the older player should had the advantage. They will also likely be stronger, and more skilled (at least than they as individuals would have been two years earlier...).
If the one-year "rental" transfers are being compared to players who come and stay in your system for multiple years, then I think the decision isn't as clear. But the reality is that NO player should be assumed to stay with his team. There's just too much transfer volume. That should adjust downward a bit, now that there's only one free-transfer available. I don't think the dust has settled on how to best manage transfers, but aside from the continuity point (which is a big one), there's not many reasons to prefer a younger player to an older one.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Re: all the point guard concern -- isn't it more important to have a team that collectively passes, moves and makes good decisions/reads than to have a single player that you rely on do that? I'm not saying a good point guard doesn't help, but one of the frustrations and failings from last season wasn't specifically the point guard (aside from perhaps when the other team pressed), it was that NOBODY seemed to be on the same page. Guys waving frantically at each other where to go, or calling for the ball repeatedly and not getting it, or looking around for someone ANYONE to move as the shot clock winds down.
When you recall the amazing movement of the 2005 team, you likely picture 5 guys moving in synch, cutting off each other, delivering passes on time and on location. Sure, we had two great "point guards" in Dee and Deron, but more importantly, those guys worked well with each other, and the whole team was locked in. You didn't have a lot of Deron bringing it up, driving and dishing, or making one great pass to a teammate for an open look. You had a whole team running the offense together -- 5, 10, 15 passes before getting a wide open look.
This is my concern with the heavy reliance on transfers -- I think it's difficult to "teach" chemistry, and thus you'll have more teams that are collections of individuals rather than cohesive units. You'll have to rely on pick and roll because you can run it with only a couple guys instead of needing 5 working together. You'll need more "stars" who can "get their own shot" because you'll have a harder time teaching a whole roster of new guys to work seamlessly together.
The hope with a group of older players is that they will be able to pick up the team dynamics more quickly than new freshman, but whether they form great chemistry seems like a crap shoot. A "true" point guard will help that, but it won't solve the problem by itself. Having five guys who can move and pass pretty well with each other is likely better than one guy who is a star, and four who can't or won't run the offense.
When you recall the amazing movement of the 2005 team, you likely picture 5 guys moving in synch, cutting off each other, delivering passes on time and on location. Sure, we had two great "point guards" in Dee and Deron, but more importantly, those guys worked well with each other, and the whole team was locked in. You didn't have a lot of Deron bringing it up, driving and dishing, or making one great pass to a teammate for an open look. You had a whole team running the offense together -- 5, 10, 15 passes before getting a wide open look.
This is my concern with the heavy reliance on transfers -- I think it's difficult to "teach" chemistry, and thus you'll have more teams that are collections of individuals rather than cohesive units. You'll have to rely on pick and roll because you can run it with only a couple guys instead of needing 5 working together. You'll need more "stars" who can "get their own shot" because you'll have a harder time teaching a whole roster of new guys to work seamlessly together.
The hope with a group of older players is that they will be able to pick up the team dynamics more quickly than new freshman, but whether they form great chemistry seems like a crap shoot. A "true" point guard will help that, but it won't solve the problem by itself. Having five guys who can move and pass pretty well with each other is likely better than one guy who is a star, and four who can't or won't run the offense.
Thanks for putting all this together. Very well stated.
A veteran team adding a hired gun like Plummer worked well.
An assemblage of newbies last year not so much.
I wouldn't call last year a success.
BRAD, GET A LEGIT POINT GUARD PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
As someone who went through an MCL tear in my college days, the doctors tell you at about 9-12 months you're good to go and fully healed, but for some while after, you just don't feel healed. The burst and explosiveness you remember just isn't there and it can be pretty frustrating especially when everyone's telling you you're fine and good to go. I don't think it's fear that does that in most cases, just part of the larger recovery process. As a general rule, it seems like 18months is around the time you can expect to get that explosiveness back after a knee injury, maybe 15months if you're an athlete with great rehab. And if you look at most college or pro athletes, who come back right when the doctors clear them, it's why they just tend to look slow and not themselves. I think Skyy Clark was actually dealing with that a bit himself last season. Achilles injuries though seem a lot more hit or miss with recovery. They're definitely more nagging injuries it seems and seem more prone to reinjury as well. Hopefully Jeremiah is one of the success stories though.
wettsten
- Chicago
are we going after him? do we have any kind of chance? after skyy i could see the veterans not happy with this option.
I was referring to his previous success running a junior college program.
That said, I would call last season a modest or minimal success.
We're not talking about an engineer you will employ for the next decade. We are talking about athletes that have 1 year to learn everything they need to know to excel at a high level. Reality is, it's not one year, because they're going to be out there on the court after only a couple of months of practice. You don't have a manager to sit with you on the court to answer any questions, you're out there with those 5 guys. The game won't stop for you to ask someone what am I supposed to do on this play.
Knowing your co-workers is not nearly as important as knowing your teammates on an athletic team. To be at your best, you need to know that if he cuts high, that means he's looking to spin backdoor. You know this because you've played together. Knowing the speed and physicality of the game is a great benefit an experienced player has that a Fr. doesn't, but it doesn't help you know Underwood's schemes or your teammates tendencies. That is my whole point of bringing in high schoolers to get old in the system. You say too many guys transfer, well I give you a 100% guarantee that Domask, Harmon, and Guerrier are leaving next year, so what's the difference? At least with a high school kid, theres a chance they stay and you can build that experience with your teammates, in the culture of the program, and in Underwood's schemes.
Also, quite frankly, if you can't keep your players that have key roles on your team, that makes me wonder if you have the right coach. Guys on the end of the bench have always left, they want to play. But if you're losing guys in key roles, when we have the NIL to compete with most anyone, then I think there are bigger problems with your program.
Tore mine 16 years ago and still find myself pivoting and taking corners a bit awkwardly at times. I however did not have access to the best rehab money could buy.
This narrative that we have the NIL money to compete with anyone I think might be overstated. It was mentioned here we can’t compete for Zyon Pullin because he wants $500k. I have no idea what the team “payroll” is, but would hope we have $2-3MM%+ in the collective to spread around 13 guys.
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We also have plenty of holier-than-thou folks who love to throw sarcasm at people for expressing an opinion that isn't tinted with rose-colored classes. I mean, it isn't like this is a message board designed for people to express their opinions, right?
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
I feel you, but everyone is different. Former D1 college track athlete. I tore my ACL and the back half of my lateral meniscus in my early twenties playing flag football of all things (bad turf should be outlawed). My experience was much more like that @Govoner Vaugn Fan described. For context, I have a cadaver Achilles tendon as my ACL, rather than having part of my hamstring taken out. Six months post-surgery, I was stronger than I was pre-injury. Nine months post-surgery, I was every bit as explosive as I was pre-injury. However, that mental block was an absolute b****. My knee was fully stable and strong, but it took me an easy five more months before I felt comfortable. When I played basketball, I took runners and layups instead of going up for a dunk. When I played a sport that needed me to cut, I would decelerate into it. I was legitimately scared to hear those audible pops and feel that shotgun blast to my knee again. I had literal nightmares about it.
Medical science in this day and age is pretty darn incredible. An athlete can absolutely physically get back to where they were in no time. For me, the physical rehab was relatively easy (though, let me tell you, there were a lot of sweat and tears). The mental rehab took longer and was way, way harder.
If he doesn’t then it’s his job on the line. Losing a lot after this next season and as we just found out nothing is guaranteed.
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