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Sorry to offend you Brad…. How many Elite 8 squads has the Big10 produced during his time here? I appreciate what he has done during a time when the entire conference hasn’t been very Elite. Looks good on paper, but? 11-9 conference record last year with Elite transfers and Elite freshman. Which way are we trending?
Your statement is the epitome of "These days".
"What have you done for me in the last ten minutes."
Stevegarbs
- Mokena, IL
Do the Underwood defenders here think he bears no responsibility for the retention misses with Clark and Epps? And is he not accountable for the lack of consistent offense and too many players refusing to run the plays he calls with little consequence? I don't think his seat is even warm nor do I want him replaced, but as a long-time fan I found last year to be very disappointing with regards to those two items.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
Every single school is dealing with "retention misses." Even Bill Self is dealing with them.
Last year we had horrible chemistry and a group of guys that just couldn't get their sh*t together. It happens. Again, every single coach has to deal with it at some point. The three seasons prior, we didn't have those issues. Yes, last year is Brad's fault, but I'm also not going to stress about one season. It's June. Let's just wait and see what happens this season.
When it comes to basketball, the guy has forgotten more than any of us will ever know. This is the equivalent of the guy at the YMCA who says he could beat Brian Scalabrine one on one...
JVG managed to get into Yale, so I assume he knows a couple other things as well...
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
That is epic.
Nope, but the question is whether or not last season was a trend or an anomaly. The retention and defiance of the offensive sets were almost certainly directly related. He had guys last year that didn't buy in, and subsequently left. Was it him, or them? I give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
If it continues to happen, the narrative changes.
splitter
- and not Nebraska
Is Geoff really the problem? Maybe the insiders can say. If he is the one working on free-throws, that would be the answer. Unlike his brother Greg, he was not a great a shooter. Not in high school not in college. His time with Marty Simmons surly taught him a thing or two.
I mean Geoff is in charge of the offense….and brings nothing to the table recruiting so….
You’re absolutely correct. Problem is when they didn’t buy in they should have been on the bench or out the door if causing problems. You’re building a team not a bunch of individuals playing Y-ball. Brad deserves credit, but is a lot of his success more so due to the leadership of Ayo, Trent, and Damonte? I watched several games last year where we didn’t dive for loose balls and lost the 50/50s most of the time. That’s culture and Brad let it slide. Too much NBA talk and not enough effort. Sorry, coaches can’t blame the players when they are supposed to be driving the bus. Jmo
Curios question for all, last second wide open 3 to win the game this year who takes it?
I hate to blast our offense and coaches, whether it’s the players or the plays, it just makes you sick when you watch other games and teams who seam to have no problem moving the ball and getting open looks. How about Loyola’s offense that made out team look like junior high kids?I mean Geoff is in charge of the offense….and brings nothing to the table recruiting so….
Well that was Gentry running the offense then and it ran pretty well….
Not sure what you're talking about. Groce coached them together for their first three years. Then Nunn got kicked off.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
I'm surprised nobody that I have read has called him by his real name .............Lord Van Gundy , aka LVG...................
Read my post again. If it sounds serious, you have to be the only guy who thought so. I'll start putting the s after the posts for you. Sorry, my bad! s
In actual coaching carousel news...
Charlotte head coach Ron Sanchez has resigned to become the associate head coach on Tony Bennett's staff at Virginia. Sanchez led the 49ers to the CBI Championship this past season.
Charlotte head coach Ron Sanchez has resigned to become the associate head coach on Tony Bennett's staff at Virginia. Sanchez led the 49ers to the CBI Championship this past season.
my bad. you're correct. For some reason I was thinking all of Nunn's stuff happened after his freshman year. Guess I thought it wasn't possible for us to not make the tourney with Hill/Nunn here together so my mind revised the history to make more sense.
IlliniwekKDR
- Colorado Springs, CO
There were so many players in legal trouble through those years, it's hard to keep it all straight
Sorry for the long post. I'm in shock this discussion is actually happening. No problem with it, but surprised.
First, I believe that our best chance for long term sustained success is Brad Underwood. When I hear names like Sean Miller, I think "Be careful what you ask for." The grass is often greener on the other side and Miller's success is not all that great for a place like AZ and who's to know if he's really got the fire to drive a team to the next stage of success.
Second, I have serious questions about BU's approach. People praise him on here for "adjustments" which is fine. But really, what I want is a coach that needs fewer adjustments. Who is able to fill in holes on the team so that the team can play and practice like he wants. The more your team is forcing others to do what they want to do, the better your coach. Point one only holds if BU continues to grow.
Third, he's the coach. He owns everything about the program. Players leave. On him. Bad chemistry. On him. Recruiting misses. On him. Things happen of course, but your success in life is stacking up lots of good things to make the bad things less impactful.
Fourth, I don't have a problem with the all in on Dennis. Let's shoot for the stars. As some have noted, we're still poised for an excellent season. I want a title. That is going to mean some swings and misses. But along with my point above, wouldn't it be nice to have some young players acclimated to the program right now to step in at point.
Fifth, my baseline for success is to be ranked. We accomplished that at the end of 7 straight seasons twice. Satan derailed us once. Weber couldn't sustain it. I want to see that again. High bar? Of course. But it's been done twice so it's hardly unprecedented.
First, I believe that our best chance for long term sustained success is Brad Underwood. When I hear names like Sean Miller, I think "Be careful what you ask for." The grass is often greener on the other side and Miller's success is not all that great for a place like AZ and who's to know if he's really got the fire to drive a team to the next stage of success.
Second, I have serious questions about BU's approach. People praise him on here for "adjustments" which is fine. But really, what I want is a coach that needs fewer adjustments. Who is able to fill in holes on the team so that the team can play and practice like he wants. The more your team is forcing others to do what they want to do, the better your coach. Point one only holds if BU continues to grow.
Third, he's the coach. He owns everything about the program. Players leave. On him. Bad chemistry. On him. Recruiting misses. On him. Things happen of course, but your success in life is stacking up lots of good things to make the bad things less impactful.
Fourth, I don't have a problem with the all in on Dennis. Let's shoot for the stars. As some have noted, we're still poised for an excellent season. I want a title. That is going to mean some swings and misses. But along with my point above, wouldn't it be nice to have some young players acclimated to the program right now to step in at point.
Fifth, my baseline for success is to be ranked. We accomplished that at the end of 7 straight seasons twice. Satan derailed us once. Weber couldn't sustain it. I want to see that again. High bar? Of course. But it's been done twice so it's hardly unprecedented.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I generally agree with it. At the risk of stating the obvious, the above is likely the crux of the issue. What is the baseline for success? Is consistency doing the following a sufficient baseline for success? And i'm honestly asking:
- top 20-ish by end of season
- top third of big ten with the occasional win
- consistently making the tourney but consistent first weekend exits
I think the above is a fair, objective assessment of where BU has shown he can do. things deviate a bit one way or the other (the first few years + last year were below, the Ayo+Kofi years were above). But, all in all, this is what we've gotten. as a program, and we've gotten enough years to create a representative sample. should we be satisfied with this? Is there reasonable expectation that we can improve on the above and the ceiling can go higher (historically, slicing and dicing if's/but's as to why "next year will be better and this year was the anomaly", regardless of coach/program, has been a fool's game).
Secondarily, if "yes" to the above, how much should/must we pay for that? BU got his raise that he's currently being paid coming off the strongest years he's had. To some extent, JW probably thought the strong years were the new baseline. Is he correct in thinking that? Was last year just one of the off years?
Finally, part of the reason we're even talking about this is on BU himself. He (as he tends to do in general), talked last year's team up quite a bit (most talent he's ever had...etc etc.) He did the classic over-promise, under-deliver and exposed himself to this. Not that it should change how we're evaluating him, but just an observation.
I believe that we all thought that last year's was maybe the deepest Illini we had ever seen, with multiple skilled players in every position and new faces to reinforce areas of need. What we lacked was the experience that graduated/left school in the back court that made us vulnerable to key players quitting mid-season, the sophomores failing to build on their freshmen season, or new players not melding into the team concept. And we failed to progress.
We run that same risk this year. We are again counting new players playing key roles in order to be successful. At least we have Shannon and Coleman coming back, with projected growth in Dainja and Rodgers, but then a whole bunch of new scorers to round out the team.
I HOPE that we will be good! I TRUST Underwood to mix and match sufficiently to eke out a 20 win season, an upper-half finish in the Big Ten, and an invite to the big dance. But that's all hope and speculation.
And to me, that is what makes college basketball exciting! With all of the (accelerating) turn-over in rosters, we need (and have) a firm hand on the throttle in order to steer us through uncharted waters each year.
GUESS WHAT! Every team is going through the same agony (except maybe Purdue.) The roster churn will continue and the hope is our team will mature and play better and better as the year progresses. THAT is what is on Underwood. THAT'S why he gets the big bucks. Finding talent and growing the team.
Rehashing the past--good or bad, does nothing for the 2023-2024 Illini. (How relevant is the team that Self or Webber inherited?)
History tells us virtually nothing about the future when we have such huge paradigm shifts as NIL and immediate transfer.
For anyone who thinks Brad can’t coach…
We had 2 freshman PG’s last year, one quit, a projected starter miss 70% of the season, played a kid like Melendez who couldn’t hit the side of a barn for 2/3 of the season, a freshman big in Dain getting 20+ minutes a night & Matthew Mayer who was either prime T-Mac or a UPS driver depending on if he was wearing a headband or not (wish that was a joke)….
And we damn near finished top 3 in the big ten, and we’re reasonably a lock for the tournament the whole year.
Look at our roster for this upcoming season and we reloaded with talent, experience, size & from all accounts guys that fit the Illini mold. Domask alone was a 4 year starter & an extremely important piece to a very good SIU squad his whole career to this point. Harmon was a 14ppg scorer on a good Utah Valley team, Guerrier has started at a Pac12/ACC school and has even been an all-conference player, TJ & Coleman we know are very good players (also to my earlier point, last year was Coleman’s first real year of being a piece to a Big Ten team, had he ever gotten 20+ MPG before last season? Obviously that comes with ups and downs but now that he has his feet wet I think we know how good he can be), yes we need to add a PG, but I’ll take a healthy Williams over Epps & Skyy anyday.
Think a lot of us will be very very happy with our results next season.
the man’s pretty, pretty good. But what do I know?
We had 2 freshman PG’s last year, one quit, a projected starter miss 70% of the season, played a kid like Melendez who couldn’t hit the side of a barn for 2/3 of the season, a freshman big in Dain getting 20+ minutes a night & Matthew Mayer who was either prime T-Mac or a UPS driver depending on if he was wearing a headband or not (wish that was a joke)….
And we damn near finished top 3 in the big ten, and we’re reasonably a lock for the tournament the whole year.
Look at our roster for this upcoming season and we reloaded with talent, experience, size & from all accounts guys that fit the Illini mold. Domask alone was a 4 year starter & an extremely important piece to a very good SIU squad his whole career to this point. Harmon was a 14ppg scorer on a good Utah Valley team, Guerrier has started at a Pac12/ACC school and has even been an all-conference player, TJ & Coleman we know are very good players (also to my earlier point, last year was Coleman’s first real year of being a piece to a Big Ten team, had he ever gotten 20+ MPG before last season? Obviously that comes with ups and downs but now that he has his feet wet I think we know how good he can be), yes we need to add a PG, but I’ll take a healthy Williams over Epps & Skyy anyday.
Think a lot of us will be very very happy with our results next season.
the man’s pretty, pretty good. But what do I know?
Keeping things in perspective, we have an over-inflated sense of self worth on this board. Looking back over the last 50+ years, we've had three periods of sustained success, 1980-1990 Henson) ; 1997-2007 (Kruger/Self/Weber), and 2020-2023 (Underwood)
1968-1979 we were horrible. Schmidt had four winning seasons, 0 B1G championships, 0 tourney appearances, was ranked four seasons at some point in the season, and finished 1 season ranked. Barstow was here one forgettable season, and when Henson took over he had three straight losing seasons to start things off.
1976-1996 under Coach Henson (1 B1G championship, 12 NCAA appearances (2 S16, 1 FF), 13 seasons ranked at one point in the season, highest ranking 2 (twice, '85 & '89). The best years were 1980-1990, with poor results both at the beginning and the end of his tenure.
1997-2007 were some of the best years to be an Illini fan. (Kruger/Self/Weber) had only one losing season, with Self (1) and Weber (2) both winning B1G titles, (10 NCAA appearances (2 S16, 1 E8, 1 FF), and were ranked 9 out 11 seasons, highest raking #1 in 2005 under Weber.
2008-2019 were the Dark Ages for Illinois basketball for most of us here on Loyalty. While Weber/Groce/Underwood posted winning seasons in eight out of the 12 seasons, we had 0 B1G titles (average finish in B1G was 8th place. We were ranked 7 out of the 12 seasons, the highest ranking at any point was 11 (2013), but did not end the season ranked in the entire period, with only three NCAA tourney berths in the period.
2020-2023 (Underwood) saw a return to success not seen for more than a decade, with four straight winning seasons, 1 B1G title (and 1 B1G tourney title), four straight seasons ranked, the highest being a #2 in 2021, and three straight tourney berths.
While some argue that Underwood has underperformed, I think history will show his results to rank right up there with the Harry Combes, Lou Henson, and Kruger/Self/Weber periods. Will he meet our expectations? Never, because we always want (expect) a natty. But as our results over the past half century (ponder THAT for a second), winning is hard, and winning in the tourney is harderer
. Since 1963 we've won 6 B1G championships, 3 B1G tourney titles (tourney started in 1998), 29 NCAA tourney berths (2 FF, 1 E8, 4 S16). 22 times we've gone to the tourney and lost in the first or second rounds.
Me? I'm gonna sit back, relax with an adult beverage of my choice, and just enjoy the fact that we've got a coach that returned us to being relevant and successful, and hope that the courts, NIL and the portal don't kill this thing that we all seem to love so much.
1968-1979 we were horrible. Schmidt had four winning seasons, 0 B1G championships, 0 tourney appearances, was ranked four seasons at some point in the season, and finished 1 season ranked. Barstow was here one forgettable season, and when Henson took over he had three straight losing seasons to start things off.
1976-1996 under Coach Henson (1 B1G championship, 12 NCAA appearances (2 S16, 1 FF), 13 seasons ranked at one point in the season, highest ranking 2 (twice, '85 & '89). The best years were 1980-1990, with poor results both at the beginning and the end of his tenure.
1997-2007 were some of the best years to be an Illini fan. (Kruger/Self/Weber) had only one losing season, with Self (1) and Weber (2) both winning B1G titles, (10 NCAA appearances (2 S16, 1 E8, 1 FF), and were ranked 9 out 11 seasons, highest raking #1 in 2005 under Weber.
2008-2019 were the Dark Ages for Illinois basketball for most of us here on Loyalty. While Weber/Groce/Underwood posted winning seasons in eight out of the 12 seasons, we had 0 B1G titles (average finish in B1G was 8th place. We were ranked 7 out of the 12 seasons, the highest ranking at any point was 11 (2013), but did not end the season ranked in the entire period, with only three NCAA tourney berths in the period.
2020-2023 (Underwood) saw a return to success not seen for more than a decade, with four straight winning seasons, 1 B1G title (and 1 B1G tourney title), four straight seasons ranked, the highest being a #2 in 2021, and three straight tourney berths.
While some argue that Underwood has underperformed, I think history will show his results to rank right up there with the Harry Combes, Lou Henson, and Kruger/Self/Weber periods. Will he meet our expectations? Never, because we always want (expect) a natty. But as our results over the past half century (ponder THAT for a second), winning is hard, and winning in the tourney is harderer
. Since 1963 we've won 6 B1G championships, 3 B1G tourney titles (tourney started in 1998), 29 NCAA tourney berths (2 FF, 1 E8, 4 S16). 22 times we've gone to the tourney and lost in the first or second rounds.Me? I'm gonna sit back, relax with an adult beverage of my choice, and just enjoy the fact that we've got a coach that returned us to being relevant and successful, and hope that the courts, NIL and the portal don't kill this thing that we all seem to love so much.
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