Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[WhiteHorseWings]

How quickly we forget. Here is a conference record breakdown since the start of Bruce's decline:

2007-2019: 89 - 129 (tail end of Weber thru Brad's inherited team; I refer to it as the only "period of irrelevancy" during my fandem)

2020-2023: 55 - 25 (the four years of "turnaround" putting us back on par with the Lou, Lon and Bill regimes)


That's a conference winning % of .408 vs .786. Staggering improvement!

Cue the name checking out posters. Yours doesn’t, since the first portion of my tenure overlapped with your namesake’s, and was a long 7 years of complete irrelevancy. Broke out of it just as I regrettably had to leave town!

 

[Grandpa]

How quickly we forget. Here is a conference record breakdown since the start of Bruce's decline:

2007-2019: 89 - 129 (tail end of Weber thru Brad's inherited team; I refer to it as the only "period of irrelevancy" during my fandem)

2020-2023: 55 - 25 (the four years of "turnaround" putting us back on par with the Lou, Lon and Bill regimes)


That's a conference winning % of .408 vs .786. Staggering improvement!

The year before Underwood got here the record was 20-15. I say that the first 2 years horrible records were because of the stupid defense which gave up easy layups and wide open shots because of the overplay and doubling. I say that he owns the 14-18, and all-time loss leader 12-21. I agree that they have been much better after he pulled his head out of his butt and let them concentrate on defending the basket.

Otherwise I agree with everything you have ever said.

 

[Mojoman]

The absolute depth of this program's slide into irrelevancy, I think, was the 2014 home loss to #12 Michigan by an embarrassing score of 84-53 when we were fighting for an NCAA berth. You can point to a lot of other bad years, but here is my argument:

- In 2007, we were still all riding the high and many still had an almost faith-like belief that Illinois basketball had a RIGHT to be good ... we wouldn't stay down for long!
- Even in 2008, we had some good young talent and help on the way.
- 2009, while pretty boring, was a pleasant surprise ... many took it as "proof" that Weber still had it.
- 2010 and 2011 were massive disappointments, but I think a lot of people had turned on Weber by now and were excited at the opportunity of "self-correcting" with an elite new coach who would bring us back. 2012 was an utter disaster, but it led to Weber finally being let go.
- While Groce was a disappointing hire for many, 2013 started off with a BANG. Even with the slump through the midseason, we still beat #1 Indiana and entered the Tournament with a respectable #7 seed and easily beat Colorado. We were SO close to knocking of Miami (FL) and making the Sweet Sixteen, and I think a lot of people really had optimism for this program.

However, by 2014, I would argue things came crashing down for the first time and we officially slid into the "irrelevant" category. 2005 was all of a sudden a LONG way back in the rearview mirror, and the future did not look bright after this campaign. Were 2015 and 2016 worse? Sure. However, I would argue our fans were just numb and depressed by that point. We started off the season 7-0 and then were 13-2 (2-0) and ranked #23 as we traveled to Madison. We got demolished by 25 points and went on a losing streak (including some REAL stinkers like losing 49-43 at Northwestern...), but we had won 3 in a row and were back to 17-12 overall when #12 Michigan came to town, and a Tourney berth was still in sight. They crushed us so badly that I remember having a bit of an "oh $hit" moment that we had literally turned into a truly mediocre basketball program. Michigan expected to win that game, and there was no mystique of entering the House of Paign or knowing that "Illinois will always make you fight for that W!" It was so depressing.

We did end up winning at #24 Iowa the next game and only lost to Michigan by one in the BTT (if we had one that game, we would have been 20-14 overall and could have gone Dancing), but I think the dagger had been fully inserted. We missed the Tournament again in 2015, we'd have a losing season in 2016 and Groce was fired in 2017 after we failed yet again to make the Tournament. By the time Underwood got here, even many of our own fans started to view the 1980s and 2000-2006 as sort of "miracle runs" that we should no longer have any right to expect ... we were just lil' ole Illinois, and we couldn't have nice things. Dee Brown wasn't walkin' through that door.

All that is to say that for Underwood to endure two losing seasons and have us finishing the third year ranked, one game away from a Big Ten title and playing our best basketball in March was astounding ... if that 2019-20 Tournament doesn't get cancelled, I'll bet ANYTHING this narrative of Brad always losing before the Sweet Sixteen never exists. The next season, we were all of a sudden BTT champs and a #1 seed, and we followed that up (after losing Ayo) with a Big Ten championship. We have not had the NCAAT success we would have liked, but ALL you can do is to continue to get back there with the highest seed possible and give it your best shot. No sane person holds Underwood accountable for the first two years of cleaning up Groce's mess, so consider this as a potential "4-year cycle" for our regular season resumes with Brad:

2019-20: 21-10 (13-7). Second in Big Ten (1.0 GB). Ranked #21. NCAAT #6 seed?
2020-21: 23-6 (16-4). "Second" in Big Ten (0.5 GB). BTT champion. Ranked #2. NCAAT #1 seed.
2021-22: 22-9 (15-5). Big Ten champions. Ranked #16. NCAAT #4 seed.
2022-23: 20-13 (11-9). NCAAT #9 seed.

If that fourth year is a baseline for our rebuilding year after losing our entire starting five, I think you're insane not to be happy with that. The Tournament success WILL come if we keep getting high seeds more years than not ... and if it doesn't after long enough, Underwood will rightfully no longer be here, but he has not had anywhere near enough opportunities in March where he "should have" won more games (really, only 2020-21). Now, I'll fully admit that this year will show us if last year is our archetypal "rebuilding year" and we are much better this year - a situation where I think we would all be extremely happy - or if this year is a continuation of last year and we have a new "baseline normal" - a situation every single one of our fans would find alarming.

The point is that based on the body of work to-date, you are a straight-up hater if you have already turned on Underwood. Let's let this season - an admittedly huge one for his tenure here - speak for itself. He's earned some patience from us, and that means more than ONE rebuilding year not going as planned.

I think the issue is that the trend and basketball product is going downward and the program has no real identity right now.
The 19-20 team was his best coaching job here. If only he could get that type of toughness and improvement each year.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

I'm not so sure. Want to be optimistic, but where is the leadership going to come from?? Big problem last year.

This is TSJ's team. It's got to come from him, but he has 4 other seniors to help him out.

Last years' team had a total of 102 starts between them coming into the season. Over half coming from Shannon who was new to the team.

Marcus Domask alone has started 106 times. We have a lot more dudes who have played a lot of DIV 1 basketball.

 

[phats22]

Irvin certainly would have

And we already would have been up by 30

 

[Bigtex]

What got my was when Mayer tossed the shoe out of the way. It looked like a trying to be cool “I don’t need no shoe” move

Had he left the shoe on the court, wouldn’t the refs have had to stop play at change of possession (as long as Arkansas didn’t have advantage) bc of potential injury risk?

Not a big deal either way to me but at least throw the shoe in the lane and make the refs stop play.

 

[illini0440]

Ty looked good throwing lobs to Dain in 5 on 5 this morning

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Ty looked good throwing lobs to Dain in 5 on 5 this morning

Source ?

 

[BashCtIllini]

Source ?

 

[illini0440]

Source ?

 

[PIT_ILL]

Antigua, TA, Chester and pay Gentry $1 million to be Special Assistant … Call it done …

Thought OA had some issues with Gentry, no?

 

[illini0440]

Thought OA had some issues with Gentry, no?

He’s just a weird dude. Didn’t really try and build a relationship with the other assistants.

 

[WyattEarp]

He’s just a weird dude. Didn’t really try and build a relationship with the other assistants.

Was OA mildly miffed he breezed and Brad him put him in charge of the offense?…after it had been him and Geoff the year before.

Or just a weird dude. Lol

 

[blackdog]

He’s just a weird dude. Didn’t really try and build a relationship with the other assistants.

OA:

 

[GetAWin]

Disappointed no PG and no coaching change this off season

 

[IndyILL]

To: Indy Illini Fan & illini0440

* I have assumed for BU's tenure that he understood himself to be the culture guy, the fearless leader, the tough decision maker... not the x's & o's guy.
* I have also assumed that like any good CEO, BU sought out assistants that were his equivalent or better in the areas of recruiting, O & D schemes, and day-to-day player oversight.
* I have also assumed that Josh W. understands these dynamics and is watchful in cultivating these varied components/hires.
* As I have read your critiques and frustrations with BU's decision-making over the last few years, I am beginning to doubt my assumptions.
* What say ye...?

 

[Dee_4_3]

Paul Mulcahy joined the portal late, Kriisa seems to be available even later. Any chance the staff has their eyes on a PG who they think might become available for some reason?

 

[NJJ871]

To: Indy Illini Fan & illini0440

* I have assumed for BU's tenure that he understood himself to be the culture guy, the fearless leader, the tough decision maker... not the x's & o's guy.
* I have also assumed that like any good CEO, BU sought out assistants that were his equivalent or better in the areas of recruiting, O & D schemes, and day-to-day player oversight.
* I have also assumed that Josh W. understands these dynamics and is watchful in cultivating these varied components/hires.
* As I have read your critiques and frustrations with BU's decision-making over the last few years, I am beginning to doubt my assumptions.
* What say ye...?

I say...

Now back to regularly scheduled real information from the insiders.

 

[Lmg5]

The absolute depth of this program's slide into irrelevancy, I think, was the 2014 home loss to #12 Michigan by an embarrassing score of 84-53 when we were fighting for an NCAA berth. You can point to a lot of other bad years, but here is my argument:

- In 2007, we were still all riding the high and many still had an almost faith-like belief that Illinois basketball had a RIGHT to be good ... we wouldn't stay down for long!
- Even in 2008, we had some good young talent and help on the way.
- 2009, while pretty boring, was a pleasant surprise ... many took it as "proof" that Weber still had it.
- 2010 and 2011 were massive disappointments, but I think a lot of people had turned on Weber by now and were excited at the opportunity of "self-correcting" with an elite new coach who would bring us back. 2012 was an utter disaster, but it led to Weber finally being let go.
- While Groce was a disappointing hire for many, 2013 started off with a BANG. Even with the slump through the midseason, we still beat #1 Indiana and entered the Tournament with a respectable #7 seed and easily beat Colorado. We were SO close to knocking of Miami (FL) and making the Sweet Sixteen, and I think a lot of people really had optimism for this program.

However, by 2014, I would argue things came crashing down for the first time and we officially slid into the "irrelevant" category. 2005 was all of a sudden a LONG way back in the rearview mirror, and the future did not look bright after this campaign. Were 2015 and 2016 worse? Sure. However, I would argue our fans were just numb and depressed by that point. We started off the season 7-0 and then were 13-2 (2-0) and ranked #23 as we traveled to Madison. We got demolished by 25 points and went on a losing streak (including some REAL stinkers like losing 49-43 at Northwestern...), but we had won 3 in a row and were back to 17-12 overall when #12 Michigan came to town, and a Tourney berth was still in sight. They crushed us so badly that I remember having a bit of an "oh $hit" moment that we had literally turned into a truly mediocre basketball program. Michigan expected to win that game, and there was no mystique of entering the House of Paign or knowing that "Illinois will always make you fight for that W!" It was so depressing.

We did end up winning at #24 Iowa the next game and only lost to Michigan by one in the BTT (if we had one that game, we would have been 20-14 overall and could have gone Dancing), but I think the dagger had been fully inserted. We missed the Tournament again in 2015, we'd have a losing season in 2016 and Groce was fired in 2017 after we failed yet again to make the Tournament. By the time Underwood got here, even many of our own fans started to view the 1980s and 2000-2006 as sort of "miracle runs" that we should no longer have any right to expect ... we were just lil' ole Illinois, and we couldn't have nice things. Dee Brown wasn't walkin' through that door.

All that is to say that for Underwood to endure two losing seasons and have us finishing the third year ranked, one game away from a Big Ten title and playing our best basketball in March was astounding ... if that 2019-20 Tournament doesn't get cancelled, I'll bet ANYTHING this narrative of Brad always losing before the Sweet Sixteen never exists. The next season, we were all of a sudden BTT champs and a #1 seed, and we followed that up (after losing Ayo) with a Big Ten championship. We have not had the NCAAT success we would have liked, but ALL you can do is to continue to get back there with the highest seed possible and give it your best shot. No sane person holds Underwood accountable for the first two years of cleaning up Groce's mess, so consider this as a potential "4-year cycle" for our regular season resumes with Brad:

2019-20: 21-10 (13-7). Second in Big Ten (1.0 GB). Ranked #21. NCAAT #6 seed?
2020-21: 23-6 (16-4). "Second" in Big Ten (0.5 GB). BTT champion. Ranked #2. NCAAT #1 seed.
2021-22: 22-9 (15-5). Big Ten champions. Ranked #16. NCAAT #4 seed.
2022-23: 20-13 (11-9). NCAAT #9 seed.

If that fourth year is a baseline for our rebuilding year after losing our entire starting five, I think you're insane not to be happy with that. The Tournament success WILL come if we keep getting high seeds more years than not ... and if it doesn't after long enough, Underwood will rightfully no longer be here, but he has not had anywhere near enough opportunities in March where he "should have" won more games (really, only 2020-21). Now, I'll fully admit that this year will show us if last year is our archetypal "rebuilding year" and we are much better this year - a situation where I think we would all be extremely happy - or if this year is a continuation of last year and we have a new "baseline normal" - a situation every single one of our fans would find alarming.

The point is that based on the body of work to-date, you are a straight-up hater if you have already turned on Underwood. Let's let this season - an admittedly huge one for his tenure here - speak for itself. He's earned some patience from us, and that means more than ONE rebuilding year not going as planned.

*2020-2021 "Second" ... (0.5 GA) correction, not GB, lol

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

The year before Underwood got here the record was 20-15. I say that the first 2 years horrible records were because of the stupid defense which gave up easy layups and wide open shots because of the overplay and doubling. I say that he owns the 14-18, and all-time loss leader 12-21. I agree that they have been much better after he pulled his head out of his butt and let them concentrate on defending the basket.

Otherwise I agree with everything you have ever said.

Even if you want to say he owns a couple of extra losses due to that defensive style, it is frankly ridiculous and shows a clear bias against him to say he owns the whole situation. That 20-15 team was our first team to not beat a SINGLE top 25 team all year in 40 years, and Underwood lost Tracy Abrams, Coleman-Lands and Malcom Hill before he set foot on campus. The 2017-18 team would have been awful with Groce or anyone else at the helm, as well.

The fact you are throwing the "all-time loss leader" out there so often speaks to a bias, IMO, as well. That team (2018-19) was bound to take a step back, as well, losing Finke and most importantly Leron Black and having to rely heavily on freshmen and newcomers. And by the end of the year, they were showing signs of improvement, knocking of #13 Maryland and #9 Michigan State, not to mention Ayo turning into a young star. The 2018-19 team was building up to the 2019-20 success, and absolutely everybody knows that.

You can knock on Underwood for the 2020-21 upset and last year all you want; there is plenty of ammo. However, holding the first two years against him is completely insane.

 

[Lee]

He’s just a weird dude. Didn’t really try and build a relationship with the other assistants.

 

[Illini4life79]

We sure miss D


Losing Ortega stung.

Makes a mean taco sauce though

 

[ptgrd23]

Did not get along with other coaches!

 

[Bigtex]

This wasn’t a “staff” offer … I’ve made mention many times of how I feel about our evaluations of certain players and recruitments of certain players by a certain staff member … This falls into that category …

Sounds like GA

 

[thechampishere]

Source ?

Maybe he actually watched the players, we can't have more insights from others who are paid to evaluate.....

/s