Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#26      
Tevo
NarrowJ said:
Yes, absolutely. Continuity is a top 3 thing in college basketball even in the current landscape imo (1: personnel/talent, 2: experience, 3: roster continuity if you asked me to rank what's important) and then I'd say coaching is 4th behind those things, not sure really.

The original comment that spurred discussion was someone questioning bringing in this many transfers. We all certainly agree (I hope, anyway) that roster continuity is crucial.
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I think with the roster changes the way they are, and will be, it moves coaching up to probably #2 or even #1. The coaching skills needed may be shifted from more traditional skill building or even breaking-down-and-building-back of individual players, to roster construction, chemistry-building, motivation/buy-in, and flexibility to adjust quickly, etc. Is it fair to say that head coaches now need to be more "managers" and less traditional "coaches"? More about taking the experienced players and adding a tool/adjusting a technique and putting them in position (with their teammates) to maximize their production, rather than molding raw athletic talent or teaching concepts? Maybe that's splitting hairs. But Underwood has talked about the "junior-college approach", and Tony Bennett's departure does point to somewhat different skills (or temperament) being needed. With all the transfer turnover and turmoil, I would say the consistent elements of coaches and staff are even more important now than previously.
 
#27      
jamarvelous31
pruman91 said:
View attachment 37071
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Maybe Canadian Bacon?
1730494527863.png
 
#28      
fuggles
If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching the series and specificly episode 3. Everyday Starts Here, Episode 3

Tyler talks about using advanced metrics in recruiting. Says Brad is a numbers guy. Would have been an accountant if coaching didn't work out.

UIUC has a world class Computer Science department. I don't know how much the Athletic Department can use the resources of the Academic departments. I would guess quite a bit in athlete education technologies. Analytics idk.

Its a new era. Reminds me of Billy Beane at Oakland 20 years ago. Revolutionized MLB roster construction.

Time will tell. But I like where this is going so far.
 
#29      
Mapman
fuggles said:
If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching the series and specificly episode 3. Everyday Starts Here, Episode 3

Tyler talks about using advanced metrics in recruiting. Says Brad is a numbers guy. Would have been an accountant if coaching didn't work out.

UIUC has a world class Computer Science department. I don't know how much the Athletic Department can use the resources of the Academic departments. I would guess quite a bit in athlete education technologies. Analytics idk.

Its a new era. Reminds me of Billy Beane at Oakland 20 years ago. Revolutionized MLB roster construction.

Time will tell. But I like where this is going so far.
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Great point, but I would add there is a difference between analytics and computer science. The synergy is more with statistics and statistical modeling, IMO.
 
#30      
Grandpa
IMHO we would have been a better team if Hawkins and Sencire had stayed for the continuity, also if I had played some different numbers I would have won the lottery.

A team like 2005 that had been starting together for most of the previous 2 seasons is going to be very rare.
 
#31      
fuggles
Mapman said:
Great point, but I would add there is a difference between analytics and computer science. The synergy is more with statistics and statistical modeling, IMO.
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Fair enough. I guess I was thinking about building the models more so than the data gathering, statistical part. As a former CS/EE I think the statistics, data, is the easy part. Analysis and decision making is the hard part, and isn't really statistics. In the episode they talked about some interesting data they are collecting. Likely I was loose with my terminology. Still pretty excited about what is happening here. Oh and that NOAH thing is super cool. Speaking of stats and data.

On a tangent here is some cool stuff the University is doing on sports analytics. Old but somewhat related. After the recruitment.
csl.illinois.edu

Sensors embedded in sports equipment could provide real-time analytics to your smartphone

Sensors embedded in sports equipment could provide real-time analytics to your smartphone
csl.illinois.edu csl.illinois.edu

Another cool story more recent.
stat.illinois.edu

From Illinois to the NFL: one data scientists journey | Department of Statistics | Illinois

In the high-impact world of professional football, player health and safety are of utmost concern.
stat.illinois.edu stat.illinois.edu
 
#32      
Bucktown
Grandpa said:
IMHO we would have been a better team if Hawkins and Sencire had stayed for the continuity, also if I had played some different numbers I would have won the lottery.

A team like 2005 that had been starting together for most of the previous 2 seasons is going to be very rare.
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The question is who would not be here if we had Coleman and/or Sincere?
 
#33      
NashvILLe05
Bucktown said:
The question is who would not be here if we had Coleman and/or Sincere?
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Really good point. I do wish we could’ve seen Coleman at the 4 and Morez at the 5 together, especially on D, but wasn’t meant to be. Sorta reminds me of Cook and Augustine playing together back in ‘02.
 
#35      
aaeismacgychel
Bucktown said:
The question is who would not be here if we had Coleman and/or Sincere?
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Coleman was never in the cards for next year it seemed, based on both timing and what both wanted. So sort of a tough hypothetical there. If Amani and Sencire stayed would probably have been more feasible. That said if Coleman/Amani stayed, I think that Booth would probably never have come. As for Sencire, that's a tougher question. While it could be Jake, doubting it. DGL seemed like he wanted to stay. Ben and Tre both probably wouldn't think they're unaffected. Boswell, KJ, and Riley are still coming. So it is maybe DGL or Tre?
 
#36      
AZILL
I'm gonna call your 2 examples and counter with Tyler's buddy Neel Ganta who worked with the basketball team doing analytics and has since moved on to the NBA (Denver). I do think this friendship was a godsend in the time and place that it happened for both Underwoods/Illini basketball. I wonder if Ganta has a sidegig doing some work for or helping out Tyler..... Cool stuff! WAYYYY beyond my comprehension!
 
#37      
PepeSilvia
aaeismacgychel said:
Coleman was never in the cards for next year it seemed, based on both timing and what both wanted. So sort of a tough hypothetical there. If Amani and Sencire stayed would probably have been more feasible. That said if Coleman/Amani stayed, I think that Booth would probably never have come. As for Sencire, that's a tougher question. While it could be Jake, doubting it. DGL seemed like he wanted to stay. Ben and Tre both probably wouldn't think they're unaffected. Boswell, KJ, and Riley are still coming. So it is maybe DGL or Tre?
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Its all a lot of ifs that don't matter now and I'm happy to see this team play but I think if Domask had ended up getting that waiver this years team would look very different.

I think it would be more of a let's run it back type of year where Brad went and got a bunch of veteran guys instead of this year which would have included Coleman coming back on a team that's all in on a championship.

Instead it's more of a transition type year.
 
#38      
Bigtex
NarrowJ said:
Yes, absolutely. Continuity is a top 3 thing in college basketball even in the current landscape imo (1: personnel/talent, 2: experience, 3: roster continuity if you asked me to rank what's important) and then I'd say coaching is 4th behind those things, not sure really.

The original comment that spurred discussion was someone questioning bringing in this many transfers. We all certainly agree (I hope, anyway) that roster continuity is crucial.
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The Kentucky model of getting young talented kids has proven it doesn’t regularly win in March. Yes they are have sent some great ones to nba. All of that to say I am not convinced your #1 of personnel / talent is the top importance for college teams.
 
#40      
NarrowJ
Bigtex said:
The Kentucky model of getting young talented kids has proven it doesn’t regularly win in March. Yes they are have sent some great ones to nba. All of that to say I am not convinced your #1 of personnel / talent is the top importance for college teams.
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I think this bit has gotten overblown over the years. Calipari averaged nearly 30 wins per season at Kentucky with a .770 winning percentage only missing the tournament twice in those 15 seasons. He took them to 4 Final Fours and 2 National Championship games, winning the whole thing in one of those seasons.

09-10 team went 35-3 with 3 freshmen leading the way (John Wall, Eric Bledsoe DeMarcus Cousins). Freshmen Daniel Orton and Jon Hood also played important roles on that team.

10-11 team went 29-9 with a Final Four trip featuring freshmen Brandon Knight, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones as the 3 leading scorers

11-12 team went 38-2 and won the National Championship with freshman Anthony Davis as the star of that team and freshmen Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marquis Teague and Kyle Wiltjer playing full minutes/starter roles in all of their 40 games.

13-14 team went 29-11 and lost in the National Championship game. Of their 8 rotation players, only 1 of them was NOT a freshman.

14-15 team went 38-1 and went to the Final Four. Led by freshmen Devin Booker, Tyler Ulis and Karl-Anthony Towns with freshman Trey Lyles also playing full minutes (23 per game) that year.

15-16 team went 27-9 (but lost in 2nd round) with, yet again, a freshman leading the charge for them (Jamal Murray averaged 20ppg that year) and freshmen Isaac Humphries, Charles Matthews and Skal Labissiere all playing important starter/rotation roles.

16-17 team went 32-6 and went to E8. Freshmen Malik Monk, De'Aaron Fox, Bam Adebayo leading that team as well as freshman Wenyen Gabriel being an important rotation piece for them.

17-18 team went 26-11 and went to S16. Like the 13-14 team, of the 8 rotation players, only 1 of them was NOT a freshman.

18-19 team went 30-7 and went to E8. Led by freshman Tyler Herro, Keldon Johnson and freshmen Nick Richards, Ashton Hagans and Immanuel Quickley assuming important roles in the rotation.

Then covid happened the next season, which is why I think we tend to forget how amazing these teams loaded with freshmen were prior to this current era of CBB that's been dominated by 6th year players who are 25 y/o grown men.
 
#41      
blackdog
NarrowJ said:
I think this bit has gotten overblown over the years. Calipari averaged nearly 30 wins per season at Kentucky with a .770 winning percentage only missing the tournament twice in those 15 seasons. He took them to 4 Final Fours and 2 National Championship games, winning the whole thing in one of those seasons.

09-10 team went 35-3 with 3 freshmen leading the way (John Wall, Eric Bledsoe DeMarcus Cousins). Freshmen Daniel Orton and Jon Hood also played important roles on that team.

10-11 team went 29-9 with a Final Four trip featuring freshmen Brandon Knight, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones as the 3 leading scorers

11-12 team went 38-2 and won the National Championship with freshman Anthony Davis as the star of that team and freshmen Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marquis Teague and Kyle Wiltjer playing full minutes/starter roles in all of their 40 games.

13-14 team went 29-11 and lost in the National Championship game. Of their 8 rotation players, only 1 of them was NOT a freshman.

14-15 team went 38-1 and went to the Final Four. Led by freshmen Devin Booker, Tyler Ulis and Karl-Anthony Towns with freshman Trey Lyles also playing full minutes (23 per game) that year.

15-16 team went 27-9 (but lost in 2nd round) with, yet again, a freshman leading the charge for them (Jamal Murray averaged 20ppg that year) and freshmen Isaac Humphries, Charles Matthews and Skal Labissiere all playing important starter/rotation roles.

16-17 team went 32-6 and went to E8. Freshmen Malik Monk, De'Aaron Fox, Bam Adebayo leading that team as well as freshman Wenyen Gabriel being an important rotation piece for them.

17-18 team went 26-11 and went to S16. Like the 13-14 team, of the 8 rotation players, only 1 of them was NOT a freshman.

18-19 team went 30-7 and went to E8. Led by freshman Tyler Herro, Keldon Johnson and freshmen Nick Richards, Ashton Hagans and Immanuel Quickley assuming important roles in the rotation.

Then covid happened the next season, which is why I think we tend to forget how amazing these teams loaded with freshmen were prior to this current era of CBB that's been dominated by 6th year players who are 25 y/o grown men.
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The extreme level of talent on those rosters is hard to achieve now with NIL creating more parity. Those Kentucky rosters were a who's who of NBA all-stars and All NBA type players. Multiple generational talents on the same roster is pretty hard to accomplish.
 
#42      
NarrowJ
blackdog said:
The extreme level of talent on those rosters is hard to achieve now with NIL creating more parity. Those Kentucky rosters were a who's who of NBA all-stars and All NBA type players. Multiple generational talents on the same roster is pretty hard to accomplish.
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It is insanely hard to accomplish. I would not strive for this model now, but its hard to argue with Calipari's pre-covid results. 4 Final Fours in 11 years, won a National Championship. When people say those teams didn't advance in March... its just silly.
 
#43      
aaeismacgychel
Bigtex said:
I like our current roster over retaining any former roster players
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I think there will be games we'll really miss Sencire, especially in the first half of the season, and even moreso if he is playing some great ball at WVU, which I expect and hope for him. A healthy Amani I'd have kept over Booth at this point. I do think Booth has the higher ceiling and more NBA talent, but I think a healthy Amani will be the better college player. That said, back issues in young bigs scare me as they often become massive recurring issues and can completely derail a career. I really hope it doesn't happen to him, but it's worrisome how much time he needed to recover freshman year.
 
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