Chicago Bears 2024-2025

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#351      
Roundball Sage
RockfordIllini said:
This has been going on for years, but how can they be so bad at this?
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Bears' Management has no incentive to be good. It's not in their DNA. The Bears exist on Tradition and making tons of money off of the NFL Gravy Train.

Other organizations exist to be good -- try to be good. And others (not the just Bears) -- do not.

The Bears exist -- just to exist. And will do so while under the same Management.
 
#353      
Carter Waller
Maybe the Bears will surprise with an OC who throws to Kmet and calls crossing routes. And runs 4 wide and 23 into the line. Gets Caleb quick throws.
 
#354      
jjv0004
Ryan Poles messed this whole thing up. Lame duck coach with the #1 pick at QB and a putrid offensive line. He could have had Stroud 2 years ago and should have traded the #1 pick and got Daniels this year and cached that into multiple picks. Anyone that watched college football the last few years could see what Daniels could do and that Williams too often played hero ball and held it forever. Shocking that he is still holding it forever and taking a million sacks.
 
#355      
EyeoftheIllini
jjv0004 said:
Ryan Poles messed this whole thing up. Lame duck coach with the #1 pick at QB and a putrid offensive line. He could have had Stroud 2 years ago and should have traded the #1 pick and got Daniels this year and cached that into multiple picks. Anyone that watched college football the last few years could see what Daniels could do and that Williams too often played hero ball and held it forever. Shocking that he is still holding it forever and taking a million sacks.
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I agree Poles messed this up by keeping Enerflus and not significantly upgrading OL. But how the hell do you think Bears were going to trade #1 AND get Daniels. You think Washington was going to give up capital to move up one spot. Not likely. Obviously they were happy where they were sitting.

Also, I’m wondering if you “watched college football the last few years”? Cuz you seemed happy with Williams [“could be Patrick Mahomes down the road”] and didn’t even mention Daniels in your post back in December. I guess it is easier to see the “future” when it is in the past.

Text from your post back in December:

“Glad I am not Poles. Good luck. If I am him, I am not having 2 #1 picks and not ending up with a franchise QB. I don't think Fields is one. I am taking a shot at Caleb Williams. I think he could be Patrick Mahomes down the road and you get four years of a discounted rate on the rookie contract. You trade Fields and hopefully get a 3rd round pick. You get a pass rusher at pick 8, 9, or 10 (wherever they end up) and then have to find a QB to fill the gap for year one if you aren't going to start Williams. My two cents. Probably not right but my thoughts.”
 
#357      
logjam
Roundball Sage said:
Bears' Management has no incentive to be good. It's not in their DNA. The Bears exist on Tradition and making tons of money off of the NFL Gravy Train.

Other organizations exist to be good -- try to be good. And others (not the just Bears) -- do not.

The Bears exist -- just to exist. And will do so while under the same Management.
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Sounds like the White Sox...
 
#358      
ChiefGritty
EyeoftheIllini said:
But how the hell do you think Bears were going to trade #1 AND get Daniels. You think Washington was going to give up capital to move up one spot. Not likely. Obviously they were happy where they were sitting.
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Not sure what the return would have been, but it was pretty widely reported that Washington was very hot for the hometown boy in Williams. They would have entertained trade discussions.

The Daniels thing was difficult because he's such a similar player to Fields, but I was saying at the time that it felt odd the way Maye and Williams' 2022 seasons were carrying their profiles against a guy in Daniels who played SO MUCH better than those two in 2023.

Anyway, there are six QB's who Poles could have chosen to build his team around. Fields, Young, Stroud, Williams, Daniels, or Maye. It sure will be interesting to watch all those careers evolve.
 
#359      
Grandpa
ChiefGritty said:
Not sure what the return would have been, but it was pretty widely reported that Washington was very hot for the hometown boy in Williams. They would have entertained trade discussions.

The Daniels thing was difficult because he's such a similar player to Fields, but I was saying at the time that it felt odd the way Maye and Williams' 2022 seasons were carrying their profiles against a guy in Daniels who played SO MUCH better than those two in 2023.

Anyway, there are six QB's who Poles could have chosen to build his team around. Fields, Young, Stroud, Williams, Daniels, or Maye. It sure will be interesting to watch all those careers evolve.
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Good to see that you included Bryce Young. So many people lament that Poles passed up Stroud. If he hadn't traded the pick he might have chosen Young. It's easy to choose Stroud in hindsight.
 
#360      
jjv0004
EyeoftheIllini said:
I agree Poles messed this up by keeping Enerflus and not significantly upgrading OL. But how the hell do you think Bears were going to trade #1 AND get Daniels. You think Washington was going to give up capital to move up one spot. Not likely. Obviously they were happy where they were sitting.

Also, I’m wondering if you “watched college football the last few years”? Cuz you seemed happy with Williams [“could be Patrick Mahomes down the road”] and didn’t even mention Daniels in your post back in December. I guess it is easier to see the “future” when it is in the past.

Text from your post back in December:

“Glad I am not Poles. Good luck. If I am him, I am not having 2 #1 picks and not ending up with a franchise QB. I don't think Fields is one. I am taking a shot at Caleb Williams. I think he could be Patrick Mahomes down the road and you get four years of a discounted rate on the rookie contract. You trade Fields and hopefully get a 3rd round pick. You get a pass rusher at pick 8, 9, or 10 (wherever they end up) and then have to find a QB to fill the gap for year one if you aren't going to start Williams. My two cents. Probably not right but my thoughts.”
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I clearly don't remember that and hindsight is 20/20. I was wrong on Williams. He has always held the ball too long and it continues. Glad to see got people like you that police the internet though and go back and find posts from people almost a year ago. You clearly have some time on your hands. You should work for one of the political parties finding dirt on people.
 
#361      
EyeoftheIllini
Grandpa said:
Good to see that you included Bryce Young. So many people lament that Poles passed up Stroud. If he hadn't traded the pick he might have chosen Young. It's easy to choose Stroud in hindsight.
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That’s the thing here, it’s all about hindsight. I have no problem with the Bears “passing on Stroud.” I don’t remember many who were completely ga-ga over him heading into draft. And I live in Columbus, so I saw/heard much of the media about him at that time. Having seen a lot of him, I thought he could be a very good NFL QB. I don’t think anyone saw him getting to where he is at so quickly. I didn’t like Young that high at all. They had Fields and I think reasonably hoped he’d take that step forward, so I fully supported trading that pick. And Poles got a very good haul out of it.

As to the assumption that they could have traded #1 and gotten Daniels, I don’t think so. And if they could have, would it had made sense? Draft value chart puts the return from Wash as their first and second round picks (values are actually identical). Despite what was “widely reported,” with no idiot owner to interfere I don’t think they would have moved much off that with the consolation prize already being second best QB in draft. So is a second round pick enough not to draft your number 1 guy for franchise QB? don’t think it is for the team. And how many GMs would have taken their second best player and made that trade?

I have no problem with people bashing Poles over taking Williams. Right now it doesn’t look great. I think pronouncing Caleb dead already is premature, but certainly this season has not gone as hoped. It’s all the “hindsight noise” with no context with which I disagree.
 
#362      
EyeoftheIllini
jjv0004 said:
I clearly don't remember that and hindsight is 20/20. I was wrong on Williams. He has always held the ball too long and it continues. Glad to see got people like you that police the internet though and go back and find posts from people almost a year ago. You clearly have some time on your hands. You should work for one of the political parties finding dirt on people.
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Yep, took me a whole minute.

I actually agreed with much of what you said in the cited post except the Mahomes reference. They couldn’t keep Fields (wish they had gotten the third you hoped for) and had to take who they thought was best QB in draft. I didn’t have much of an opinion on Williams versus Daniels at the time. Saw more of Williams than I did of Daniels, but liked both of them.
 
#363      
ChiefGritty
The difficult thing to take emotionally/psychologically is that you can do absolutely everything right and the QB can still just not have "it" in a way that ultimately is fairy dust and magic as opposed to anything that can be understood beforehand in the draft process.

Not everything is rational. Data and information and intelligent judgement can tell you a lot, but it can't tell you the future.

We can all see it. Caleb just might not have it. But then the same evidence was there for Josh Allen or Peyton Manning or choose your bad rookie success story.

The incentives of the internet are to pretend you can see the future, and take credit when you get over-confident predictions right. Well, that's not how the real world works.
 
#364      
RockfordIllini
ChiefGritty said:
The difficult thing to take emotionally/psychologically is that you can do absolutely everything right and the QB can still just not have "it" in a way that ultimately is fairy dust and magic as opposed to anything that can be understood beforehand in the draft process.

Not everything is rational. Data and information and intelligent judgement can tell you a lot, but it can't tell you the future.

We can all see it. Caleb just might not have it. But then the same evidence was there for Josh Allen or Peyton Manning or choose your bad rookie success story.

The incentives of the internet are to pretend you can see the future, and take credit when you get over-confident predictions right. Well, that's not how the real world works.
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It’s true that evaluating QBs is a crapshoot and it’s hard to know who will have that Maholmes Brady Rogers secret sauce.

But there’s a lot of room between finding the next Maholmes and a bust. The league is filled with those sorts of talented but flawed/mediocre- ish QBs. Think your Kurt Cousins, your Dak Prescotts, Jared Goff was pretty mediocre before he landed in Detroit.

I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a franchise who selects the best QB prospect in a generation to land somewhere other than abject disaster, which unfortunately looks like is where we are headed. Maybe things will turn around after we get rid of this bone headed coaching staff that doesn’t know what it’s doing, but it feels like we’ve been saying that since Lovie went 10-6 a decade plus ago.
 
#372      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Caleb Williams has at least looked a little better today. Granted that's not saying much with how he looked the last few games with Waldron running the offense. He is running a lot more than he has most of the season.
 
#373      
Second place is 1st loser
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Caleb Williams has at least looked a little better today. Granted that's not saying much with how he looked the last few games with Waldron running the offense. He is running a lot more than he has most of the season.
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I'm not sure how the offense will look going forward, but it's refreshing to see a coordinator that understands how bad the offensive line is and adjusts the play calls to get the ball out of Caleb's hands quickly.

Waldron couldn't seem to understand that the receivers couldn't run deep routes because there was a free run at the QB.

Pretty fundamental stuff, but the Bears haven't exactly hired coaches that grasp fundamentals.
 
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