Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

[JD76]

Going back the last 3 season,, which of these things does our $6M “coach” really excel at:
1 hiring and keeping great staff
2 making players better while they are here
3 keeping hardworking every day guys in the program
4 installing solid, winning offensive and defensive systems
5 game plans’
6 playing the best players
7 in game adjustments
8 taking accountability for losses
???

 

[Snoopy]

Having a hard time finding the podcast you are referencing on that site. They are saying Brad's approach "broke" KJ?

Scroll down the page to Latest Podcasts. There is one labeled 'Illini Pella Saturday Sports Talk | 2-22-25'. About 3/4 of the way in they welcome in Paul Klee. The discussion with him is very rambling. When they do address the current team. Paul says the NBA and European basket ball both highly value KJ still as a great player. Then he goes on to say, and I'm paraphrasing here, as I'm not a court reporter: There is a detachment between your best player and what is being coached .... The NBA views him very highly .... European players need to be coached differently .... You can yell and swear at them but can’t make it personal or they turn off. Then he mentions KJs turnovers and lower shooting % as result of the detachment.

The relationship between staff and player and resulting poor play on this Illini team is what I was referring to as "broken". Probably could have stated that better. Paul never outright states it, but my reading between the lines take away is that the NBA and the European basketball community view the KJs current struggles as a result of Illinois coaching and lack of team support.

 

[STLini25]

I think his point is that there's no way he gets the job.

I tend to agree. I don't see anyone taking BU after this. Probably would have to be a step down.

He would 100% have to take a step down. He would be looking at an Oklahoma, OSU, K State, Iowa State, Colorado type of position

 

[DICKnaggie]

How much of the show does Tyler and Hammer actually run? During practice and from the bench?

Look at who Brad mostly talks to during a game...Spoiler: It isn't Geoff or O.

 

[Heisenbobble]

I think his point is that there's no way he gets the job.

I tend to agree. I don't see anyone taking BU after this. Probably would have to be a step down.

It's not out of the realm of possibility if it means his son can continue to be on his staff at a slightly lower level.

 

[Noblesville Illini]

THIS………Josh ain’t havin’ it. Donors dictate decisions.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

All I know for sure is Brad Underwood has lost a lot of the fans. Winning cures all but illinois can't seem to win without coaching.

Brad Underwood has been neck and neck with Matt Painter as the winningest coach in the B1G the past six years. But yeah… we can’t win without coaching. That makes perfect sense.

 

[HailtotheChief]

It's not out of the realm of possibility if it means his son can continue to be on his staff at a slightly lower level.

IMO, blood is thicker than water. If Brad is here them Tyler will be. I just don't see BU as being highly sought after right now with his salary but maybe he is.

 

[HailtotheChief]

Brad Underwood has been neck and neck with Matt Painter as the winningest coach in the B1G the past six years. But yeah… we can’t win without coaching. That makes perfect sense.

No, you can't win without players and that's his strength. He has had 3 All Americans but right now he does not. Good players can win over good coaching but Duke and a lot of teams we played this year have both. What's BUs record vs top 15? It's not good at home or on the road. I don't know how often BU out coaches others in the B10 or vs top.teams. We had better players most nights and it hasn't been easy

 

[IMPE Legend]

Brad Underwood has been neck and neck with Matt Painter as the winningest coach in the B1G the past six years. But yeah… we can’t win without coaching. That makes perfect sense.

Has it been in-game coaching or recruiting? I think a lot of people think it's recruiting. And if it is recruiting, then does NIL negate that advantage? Small sample size but the last 3 years have been a roller coaster of hits and misses. Maybe there is no such thing as stability in today's college basketball when it comes to recruiting and retention of players...but that seems like it makes consistent in-game coaching all the more important. We can't just continue to bring in a bunch of new guys and throw it all at a wall and see what happens. There has to be a system to fit players into. Hard to see a system that exists today in our program.

 

[OrangeBlue98]

I’ll agree with you on Beard. I’ve made my personal opinion known here, that I’d prefer Beard not coach here. But, if Pearl or Sampson win a title before Illinois I’d consider checking my ethics at the door.

Golden is a different case. I don’t know yet how much of the allegations are credible. I’d hope that after what we saw TSJ go through that we’d consider “innocent until proven guilty” more. I’d like to see more to sway my opinion either way, because based on what I’ve seen I wouldn’t lock him up and toss the key away by any stretch.

 

[HailtotheChief]

Has it been in-game coaching or recruiting? I think a lot of people think it's recruiting. And if it is recruiting, then does NIL negate that advantage? Small sample size but the last 3 years have been a roller coaster of hits and misses. Maybe there is no such thing as stability in today's college basketball when it comes to recruiting and retention of players...but that seems like it makes consistent in-game coaching all the more important. We can't just continue to bring in a bunch of new guys and throw it all at a wall and see what happens. There has to be a system to fit players into. Hard to see a system that exists today in our program.

I think if you bring in experienced good players like TSJ, Domask, Ravonte Rice, Plummer, Michigan's 7ft guys or many others that are experienced I think you can but when 3 of your best 4 new guys are 18 or 19 years old then that may be tough. I think we really miss Dain or someone like him this year. If our redshirts leave and Booth I hope we get someone like Dain who is doing great at Memphis and killed it today.

 

[Illini_1105]

110% ??? No …

Yes. We make the tourney he is 110% our coach

 

[Ryllini]

This thread is a case study on recency bias.

The cherry on top is the Dennis Gates mentions. One year removed from an 8 win season, 1 career tournament win and some people prefer him over Brad because the last 6 weeks have been better for Missouri than Illinois.

I don’t think it is recency bias. He is young(45)has been a head coach for 6 total years, won the Horizon twice with Cleveland St, coach of the year twice. He then brought a lot of those kids to the Mizzou dumpster fire and immediately won 25 games. He did get absolutely rinsed last year on a reload and now very well could win 25 again in a loaded SEC. This dude can coach and seems like a guy who can easily relate to kids in the new CBB landscape.

 

[schnaurt]

No, you can't win without players and that's his strength. He has had 3 All Americans but right now he does not. Good players can win over good coaching but Duke and a lot of teams we played this year have both. What's BUs record vs top 15? It's not good at home or on the road. I don't know how often BU out coaches others in the B10 or vs top.teams. We had better players most nights and it hasn't been easy

18-22 (may be off one either way) against the top 15 since at Illinois. Thst includes the last three games being losses against top 15. Also the first two teams he had, we would all agree, were sub-par.

Do you consider that good or bad?

 

[Snoopy]

We can't just continue to bring in a bunch of new guys and throw it all at a wall and see what happens. There has to be a system to fit players into. Hard to see a system that exists today in our program.

Think this year is also showing that in the NIL world retention still matters. Look how much emphasis Bret put on retention and how successful the football team has been in retaining players who were offered more to transfer than Illinois can afford.

The men's basketball team lost players over the spring and summer that might have really helped this year. Dain, Coleman, Amani, Luke come to mind. For all the talk of Brad having an advantage in the NIL era, I worry that Brad's history of forming adversarial relationships with recruits and their families once they are here, will ultimately offset and more his strengths.

 

[PepeSilvia]

I think his point is that there's no way he gets the job.

I tend to agree. I don't see anyone taking BU after this. Probably would have to be a step down.

I could see a school like Miami they has deep pockets being very interested.

Brad has still had a very good run and is far more proven than what you're likely getting.

 

[PepeSilvia]

Holy crap dude! You certainly have a type.

Beard obviously has some pretty major baggage but I don't see anyway that a school board and officials signs off on Golden.

Even if nothing came from the allegations, it would be a career killer for anyone that signed off on it if something along those lines happened at a new school.

 

[schnaurt]

Above

0-5 in his first five against top 15 as well.

 

[Oldskoolkoach]

Brad has never once in his life owned a mistake, or give. Into his stubbornness

 

[Oldskoolkoach]

Hire Shauna!

 

[Oldskoolkoach]

Holy crap dude! You certainly have a type.

 

[Jet Jockey]

Everyone's trying to figure out what went wrong this year. My take:

Especially at this level, team chemistry is huge. On and off the court, it affects practices, games, and everything in between. Brad put these guys together, and early on they had on-court chemistry in spades. Natural stuff you can't coach. KJ was dealing, Tre was sneaky good, Tomi hitting shots, everyone seemingly had their roles ... guys had off days and others would pick them up ... smiles all around. I'll bet practices were fun and dynamic; off the court there was nothing to talk about except how great their performances were and what was possibly in front of them ... a potential F4 and Natty. Every analyst was saying it, and these guys all drink up that stuff on their phones all day long. Bonding was strong.

Then ... in my mind the first thing to happen was Brad starting Ben and playing him 30+ minutes even though he was drastically underperforming. Others playing better were on the bench. Brad ridiculously defends Ben as a great defender in a press conference. Doubt creeps in as to why the HC is sticking with this guy. Talk begins to change.

Then ... injuries and illness starts. Players react differently to these things; some try to push through and others don't. Fears come in about the season. Their rhythm is upset. Shots don't go in. Losses start to mount. More talk.

Then ... talk spills out into practice. I'm thinking this is what happened with Tre. He gets sick and seemingly punished as well. More talk about coach's decisions and biases. This affects off court talk and effort in practice.

Then ... Morez gets seriously injured. Many see this as the final straw as to the teams potential. Their ranking is gone. Effort is further dimished.

All of this I've mentioned is heightened in young men their age, and in addition when the stakes for them are so high (NBA, overseas, NIL) these things can snowball quickly. And because these are very young men, it all escalates into the worst defeat in Illinois Basketball history on a Saturday night in Madison Square Garden.

Can coaching affect this? Absolutely, both to the positive and negative. It's especially bad if the coach is stubborn, which ours famously is. But much of team chemistry is elusive; you can't just say you have it. It's what drives bad baseball teams to the World Series, and 8 seeds to beat 1 seeds in the NBA. We had the chemistry AND the talent early, and lost it. So my main reasons...

1- Team chemistry lost
2- Brad's stubborness
3- Illness and injury
4- Kylan burning sage unnecessarily

Go Illini

You forgot the nonexistent assistant coaching staff

 

[rmlsr]

I think his point is that there's no way he gets the job.

I tend to agree. I don't see anyone taking BU after this. Probably would have to be a step down.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. My guess is that he’s viewed much more positively outside of the state of Illinois or outside of the Big10. They don’t get to see his flaws as often as we do.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

No, you can't win without players and that's his strength. He has had 3 All Americans but right now he does not. Good players can win over good coaching but Duke and a lot of teams we played this year have both. What's BUs record vs top 15? It's not good at home or on the road. I don't know how often BU out coaches others in the B10 or vs top.teams. We had better players most nights and it hasn't been easy

Terrence Shannon was not an All-American his freshman year. Neither was Ayo. In fact, Brad didn’t win big with freshman Ayo. Or even junior Shannon. Under what coach did those players become All-American? I’ll hold for your answer.

If KJ or Will or Tomi stick around for four years — or even one more year — they may become All-Americans as well. But it’s disingenuous to hold Brad to the same standard playing essentially four raw freshmen to the standard where he had established veterans. Is the roster as it is his doing? Absolutely. But it’s still a roster of freshmen.