ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Fun Fact: Illinois is the only team in all of Division 1 that has played zero Quad 3 games.
Six Quad 4 cupcake buy games, everything else in Quad 1/2
Six Quad 4 cupcake buy games, everything else in Quad 1/2
I cannot speak for everyone and this might be semantics, but I want to be clear that I don't think the Selection Committee necessarily changes seeds or matchups for better storylines ... but I think it's entirely reasonable to think it could be a subconscious or even "after the fact" thought. Like "Hey look, we placed Loyola as the #8 seed in #1 Illinois' region. That would be a really interesting matchup given the instate relationship and that Loyola has been such a cool Cinderella story lately!" Did placing Loyola there make sense for other reasons (at least in the minds of the Committee)? Sure ... but it's difficult to say how much subconsciously thinking about that could bias the Committee if they're deciding where to put two #8 seeds.There are a few practical reasons why the committee probably doesn't change seeds / matchups for better storylines...
Sec has a 16 team tourney. Instead of 8/9 it’s 8 vs winner of 9/16 I believe. Could’ve had 1 more.I will say I don't really like that the bottom 3 teams won't make the conference tourney this year. I also get that adding yet another round to the conference tourney is untenable (imagine playing Sunday and then Tu-W-Th-Fr-Sa-Su, just pure insanity).
I think they could get creative with the conference schedule, though. Keep the 20 game schedule, but plan just the first 19 games, one game against each conference opponent with return games (make them the first two played in December). Those 19 games count for the conference standings. Then for the last game, make the bottom 6 teams play each other for their conference tournament spot (so 15 vs 16, 14 vs 17, 13 vs 18), and the rest of the teams play 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8, 9 vs 10, 11 vs 12 as an extra effective Q1 game pre-tournament. Each of these games would feature teams on opposite sides of the bracket, so it would avoid any potential conference tournament rematches until the championship.
I get that money drives everything and that the Big Ten seems to love this idea of rewarding a higher conference finish with a series of byes, but it just feels wrong that every conference team wouldn't participate in the conference tournament. One of the essential ideas of the BTT is that it "starts your second season," and EVERY team can theoretically earn an invitation to the Big Dance. While we came up short both times, think of the fond memories of our 1999 and 2008 teams making runs to the BTT Championship, when they would never have sniffed the NCAA Tournament otherwise.Sec has a 16 team tourney. Instead of 8/9 it’s 8 vs winner of 9/16 I believe. Could’ve had 1 more.
Well put.I'll die on the opposite hill. Several hundred thousand more people are going to watch Illinois play Kelvin Sampson or Bruce Pearl, for example? Name brand programs, in general, will draw more viewers but only 8 games two weeks ago even drew more than 700k viewers. The average first round NCAA tournament game drew 2 million viewers last year. The four network, combined TV-only average was 8.3 million.
In my experience, virtually no one cares what Bruce Pearl did to Illinois outside of a very small percentage of Illinois fans. I have friends who went to Tennessee and Auburn and they didn't know what Pearl did. And I have a bunch of fellow Illinois alums who have no idea what he did either and I'm in my 40s. Similarly, I have friends who are IU alums who have no idea what Sampson did.
I'm not going to tune in to an Arizona/Xavier NCAA tournament game just because of Sean Miller, for example. There are also only 4 games on at a time... anyone who is invested enough in college basketball to watch a game because of some certain storyline is already going to be watching the NCAA tournament. I don't see how several hundred thousand viewers are going to appear out of nowhere to watch Illinois extract revenge on Porter Moser.
FRIDAY
12:15 PM - #1 Illinois provides some redemption for the Big Ten with a 78-49 win vs. #16 Drexel, but this was to be expected for a #1 seed.
3:00 pm - The first shocker is in, as #2 Ohio State falls to #5 Oral Roberts in OT. Upsets happen, so I am not sure anyone thought there was something "wrong" quite yet, especially since the hype for Michigan, Iowa and especially Illinois was still high.
This matches exactly what we do on the basketball court. Either easy 2 or 3 point shot. Missing a deep 2 is detrimental just like playing quad 3 gamesFun Fact: Illinois is the only team in all of Division 1 that has played zero Quad 3 games.
Six Quad 4 cupcake buy games, everything else in Quad 1/2
It'd be basically impossible for them not to be "overrated" based on the seeds they're about to get. They'd have to make up like half the Sweet 16 to not be overrated.Here's a fun article from Ken Pomeroy as to why the SEC is probably overrated heading into the tournament:
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I think it's pretty obvious that they set seed lines and then potentially make some changes to make for some exciting potential matchups.I cannot speak for everyone and this might be semantics, but I want to be clear that I don't think the Selection Committee necessarily changes seeds or matchups for better storylines ... but I think it's entirely reasonable to think it could be a subconscious or even "after the fact" thought. Like "Hey look, we placed Loyola as the #8 seed in #1 Illinois' region. That would be a really interesting matchup given the instate relationship and that Loyola has been such a cool Cinderella story lately!" Did placing Loyola there make sense for other reasons (at least in the minds of the Committee)? Sure ... but it's difficult to say how much subconsciously thinking about that could bias the Committee if they're deciding where to put two #8 seeds.
All in all, you are probably right ... I just don't think it NEVER crosses their minds, and if it is crossing their minds, it's entirely possible that it is a sort of "tie-breaker."
We might need USC to win their first BTT game for this to remain accurate. The loss against them is right on the edge of Q2/Q3. But on the other hand if Rutgers beats them, then our loss against Rutgers becomes Q1.Fun Fact: Illinois is the only team in all of Division 1 that has played zero Quad 3 games.
Six Quad 4 cupcake buy games, everything else in Quad 1/2
No, they don't do that.I think it's pretty obvious that they set seed lines and then potentially make some changes to make for some exciting potential matchups.
Also, geographic stuff probably also makes some of those storyline stuff happen.
No, they don't do that.
What actually happens is the committee makes a valid bracket, and then millions of fanatics reverse engineer planned drama from the bracket.
I agree with that, but with the size of conferences now even that is really hard to do. Even though they can have teams from the same conference play earlier now than before they still protect the top say 4 teams from at least the major 2/3 conferences.Haha, I think that is definitely a farfetched scenario ... but I also kind of roll my eyes at people on the other end of the spectrum who act like the Committee isn't considering how interesting matchups are. It could even be mostly subconscious, but March Madness is a H-U-G-E money maker, especially with advertising (over the course of the Tournament, its ad spending/revenues actually dwarf the Super Bowl...).
So, if they are sitting there thinking that they have a good/exciting #6 seed Illini team and they are considering where to put us between two theoretically equal/fair placements, I can practically guarantee you they'd have us play #11 seed Oklahoma and get a Porter Moser rematch instead of having us play #11 San Diego State. And I don't think that's even close to a conspiracy theory.
While I’m not holding my breath, I think it would be a great gesture — and hurt no one — for B1G Commissioner Tom Petitti to retroactively name Illinois and Michigan co-champions for 2021. My arguments are two points:Also, on the topic of what constitutes making the NCAA Tournament, I will die on the hill that it was morally wrong for the Selection Committee not to release an official "Field of 68" for the 2019-20 season that had to be cut short due to COVID-19. It would have hurt literally no one, and it would have been a sort of nice gesture (during a very depressing time!) to recognize teams that put together a season worthy of hearing their names called on Selection Sunday.
I remember thinking that Rutgers, specifically, got screwed. They ended the year with victories vs. #9 Maryland and in OT at Purdue to get to 20-11. It was their first 20-win season in almost two decades, and it would have been the first time they heard their names called on Selection Sunday since 1991. I was also INCREDIBLY annoyed that all throughout 2021, people kept saying it was the first time we had made the NCAA Tournament since 2013 even though we very clearly would have made it in 2020, lol.
Michigan essentially got credit for going 3-0 in games it didn't play, due the way "win percentages" work. That's the only way they could have been the outright champion had they played the games.While I’m not holding my breath, I think it would be a great gesture — and hurt no one — for B1G Commissioner Tom Petitti to retroactively name Illinois and Michigan co-champions for 2021. My arguments are two points:
1. The established rules which determined the champion were set before the season. Fair enough. But in football, those rules were changed midstream to benefit Ohio State when they suddenly became ineligible. That rule was changed for financial reasons. If it can be altered for that, surely it can be changed for common sense and fairness reasons.
2. Michigan argues that the three remaining games they didn’t play were against the B1G’s bottom feeders and they probably would’ve won them all. Again, fair enough. But what if Wisconsin, in 2022, would’ve said “our final game is at home against Nebraska. Do we even need to play it?” It’s possible Michigan could’ve lost at least one, if not more of those games, given the condensed time frame in which they would’ve been played.
I’d love to see a push made by JW and the basketball program to correct this retroactively. Had the league followed its established rules for football I’d just chalk this up to the unfortunate effects of COVID. But the league already proved its willing to mess around with its rules, so I think it’s time to speak up and officially raise another banner.
I think you've turned your fun little post which I read with great interest into something of an absurdity now.There are a few practical reasons why the committee probably doesn't change seeds / matchups for better storylines.
1. I just listed like 30 different narratives off the top of my head for Illinois. Assuming other teams just have 20 narratives, that's over 1,300 different narratives that we think the committee - this random group of administrators - has committed to memory or filed away somewhere. Even the biggest storyline to us - going up against Bruce Pearl likely doesn't even register to these people. It would probably be news to most of them that Pearl used to be an assistant coach at Iowa 35 years ago.
2. The bracket is one giant puzzle. Every time you manipulate something to make one story happen, you mess up other potential storylines, not to mention locations, etc. And at that point, we would be assuming that these athletic administrators are not only comparing resumes to one another, but then they're comparing and arguing about different storylines and choosing the ones that will get the best television ratings. You move Oklahoma up in the bracket so that their coach can have a rematch against one of the teams he played in the tournament 4 years ago but then by doing so you may have just taken away a border rivalry matchup between Missouri and Oklahoma. And now you have a room full of not-TV-executives arguing about which one will draw more viewers.
3. This is the most important probably. It is just so unlikely that anyone who was planning to watch a different game or not watch the games at all will say, "Oh man, Porter Moser is playing Illinois again? That's must watch TV! Now I'm definitely calling off work." It's just not a factor. People will either watch the team they're a fan of, the game they have money on, the "best match up", or they'll score watch and flip back and forth to the closest games and the games with the biggest impact on their brackets.
Editing to add that if these storylines make March Madness more fun for you, then by all means embrace it! I'm not trying to be a buzzkill.
… but you literally can’t know that for sure, and neither can we.No, they don't do that.
What actually happens is the committee makes a valid bracket, and then millions of fanatics reverse engineer planned drama from the bracket.
I guess not matching us up with Akron when we were seeded opposite them twice in three years was just to keep us off the scent.Haha, I think that is definitely a farfetched scenario ... but I also kind of roll my eyes at people on the other end of the spectrum who act like the Committee isn't considering how interesting matchups are. It could even be mostly subconscious, but March Madness is a H-U-G-E money maker, especially with advertising (over the course of the Tournament, its ad spending/revenues actually dwarf the Super Bowl...).
So, if they are sitting there thinking that they have a good/exciting #6 seed Illini team and they are considering where to put us between two theoretically equal/fair placements, I can practically guarantee you they'd have us play #11 seed Oklahoma and get a Porter Moser rematch instead of having us play #11 San Diego State. And I don't think that's even close to a conspiracy theory.
I guess not matching us up with Akron when we were seeded opposite them twice in three years was just to keep us off the scent.
View attachment 40375
Bracket sim of the day at EvanMiya.com!
National champ: Florida
Final Four: Florida, Illinois, Creighton, Saint Mary's
Glad you liked it. It was meant to be absurd.I think you've turned your fun little post which I read with great interest into something of an absurdity now.
1. Nobody is claiming there is a database of 1,000 narratives. They're claiming that when the committee says, okay, it comes down to #5 Illinois vs. either Penn or Akron, someone says, "oh, do Akron, do Akron, because..."
2. Nobody is saying the motivating principle is "sell more ads." They're saying, as in #1, if opportunities present themselves take them. Since you didn't specify that it's a jigsaw puzzle, I'll go ahead and assume it's a puzzle with more than one possible solution.
3. For sake of argument, let's grant that there is a database and it is a jigsaw puzzle, certainly there is more to the calculation than just sell more ads. Such as "let's give the announcers some fun talking points," the fact that humans are humans and can't help themselves but to see patterns, "last time they played each other, dude, remember that game?" etc.
View attachment 40375
Bracket sim of the day at EvanMiya.com!
National champ: Florida
Final Four: Florida, Illinois, Creighton, Saint Mary's
Yeah, I mean I never said these people obsess over it or even prioritize it whatsoever. I just said it’s not asinine to think it ever plays a role, especially if all else is equal. There were also probably reasons to not put Illinois and Akron together that were way more important than “storylines,” and literally not one person here has suggested the Committee would ever let a good matchup get in the way of the more objective constraints of their duties to make a good and fair bracket.I guess not matching us up with Akron when we were seeded opposite them twice in three years was just to keep us off the scent.