Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#501      
OrangeBlue98
Illini IndyCar Fan said:
This is one of those situations where we get monkey pawed after Brad departs after this season, we get passed over by our targets and have to hire our 7th choice (like the Groce hire and the upcoming IU hire), and then in the March 2029 coaching carousel thread people post things like "man, I would give anything to return to the days where we were made the Elite 8, won 4 B1G conference/tourney championships, won the most games in the conference over the past 5 years, and were putting guys in the NBA" (aka Brad's ceiling) while we're talking about who should replace our failed replacement for Brad.
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There's always that risk, but I'll continue to say this program is in a completely different place than it was when Weber was fired. The Big 10 has oodles of TV money, Illinois has a recent track record of success, and Josh Whitman is not even in the same discussion as Mike Thomas when it comes to being an AD that coaches want to work for. Obviously there are no guarantees, but I am much, more confident in the state of the program than I was when Groce was hired.
 
#503      
WyattEarp
ktal said:
I think complaining about Underwood after the success he has had, is a luxury. The name of the game is to keep taking cracks at a run until we hit one. Brad has been excellent at getting us to the opportunity, despite the massive changes in how rosters are built, during his tenure. Sure, he hasn't won the big one, yet. Know what he has done? Proven he can adapt. That might be the biggest skill requirement right now, because it has kept us steadily competitive during his time.

Yes, the split personality blowouts are not ideal. But half of them are going our way, which tells you something is going right.

Loyalty. It's more than letters in the address bar.
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You mean where it says “Illinoisloyalty.com” rather than “bradunderwoodloyalty”?
I’m pretty sure you can have respect and gratitude without blind loyalty. The situation is a little more nuanced than that.

Whitman gave Brad everything he could have dreamed of…at a time when OSU lowballed him… He was looking when he found this job…and apparently he’s still looking. Okay…fine…whatever…capitali$m…(we’ve all heard the lecture before.) But that’s also why it’s prudent planning to have a plan B & C…$$
Also, I’ve got Brad’s resume memorized at this point; and I’m well aware of all that he has done for us.

But don’t tell me I have to give every ounce of my loyalty to a guy (who may or may not wanna be here himself)
 
#505      
Illini IndyCar Fan
OrangeBlue98 said:
There's always that risk, but I'll continue to say this program is in a completely different place than it was when Weber was fired. The Big 10 has oodles of TV money, Illinois has a recent track record of success, and Josh Whitman is not even in the same discussion as Mike Thomas when it comes to being an AD that coaches want to work for. Obviously there are no guarantees, but I am much, more confident in the state of the program than I was when Groce was hired.
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I think it says a lot about how much a bubble we're in around here if we're ready to move on from Brad when his "ceiling" is:
• Program’s first NCAA Elite Eight appearance since advancing to 2005 national title game
• Big Ten’s winningest team in league play over last five seasons (69-31, .690)
• 69 B1G wins from 2019-20 through 2023-24 are most in school history over five-year stretch
• Four straight NCAA Tournament appearances (fifth precluded by COVID-19 cancelation in 2020)
• NCAA Tournament wins in three of the last four years
• One of only five schools nationally with five straight 20-win regular seasons
• Three Big Ten Championships in last four years
• Five straight top-five B1G finishes, including top-two finishes three of the last four years
• 2024 B1G Tournament Champions
• 2022 B1G Champions
• 2021 B1G Tournament Champions
• Led B1G in wins in 2021
• 2021 NCAA Tournament No. 1 seed (fourth in school history)

Is there any fanbase that wouldn't be ecstatic if their new coach accomplished all those recent Underwood "ceilings"? This chatter that pops up after every loss reminds me Indiana fans and their the delusions of grandeur.
 
#507      
RabidDawgClassic
This was the moment I figured out that Fran is not the “good dude” that everybody says he is. That’s sociopathic behavior right there. Kind of like how people always said “Bobby Knight does great things for people that he never tells anyone about.” That’s all well and good, but his public behavior told me everything I needed to know.
 
#508      
Iloveorangekoolaid
OrangeBlue98 said:
If Mick's tired of all the travel, he better find a SEC or a regional mid-major job. It's not like the Big 12 or the ACC have small geographic footprints.
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Let’s say he took the IU job. It’s a lot of easy trips and one west coast trip per season. Being a west coast team in the Big Ten is very different from being a Midwest team in the Big Ten.
 
#509      
Illini IndyCar Fan
WyattEarp said:
You mean where it says “Illinoisloyalty.com” rather than “bradunderwoodloyalty”?
I’m pretty sure you can have respect and gratitude without blind loyalty. The situation is a little more nuanced than that.

Whitman gave Brad everything he could have dreamed of…at a time when OSU lowballed him… He was looking when he found this job…and apparently he’s still looking. Okay…fine…whatever…capitali$m…(we’ve all heard the lecture before.) But that’s also why it’s prudent planning to have a plan B & C…$$
Also, I’ve got Brad’s resume memorized at this point; and I’m well aware of all that he has done for us.

But don’t tell me I have to give every ounce of my loyalty to a guy (who may or may not wanna be here himself)
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I'm still waiting for a Texas insider or wherever else "his agent is talking to" to hint that Brad Underwood is actually on their list before I put a lot into that ungracious narrative. Even the KSU chatter from the EMAW crew during their search didn't really align with the insights being posted here.
 
#511      
OrangeBlue98
Illini IndyCar Fan said:
I think it says a lot about how much a bubble we're in around here if we're ready to move on from Brad when his "ceiling" is:
• Program’s first NCAA Elite Eight appearance since advancing to 2005 national title game
• Big Ten’s winningest team in league play over last five seasons (69-31, .690)
• 69 B1G wins from 2019-20 through 2023-24 are most in school history over five-year stretch
• Four straight NCAA Tournament appearances (fifth precluded by COVID-19 cancelation in 2020)
• NCAA Tournament wins in three of the last four years
• One of only five schools nationally with five straight 20-win regular seasons
• Three Big Ten Championships in last four years
• Five straight top-five B1G finishes, including top-two finishes three of the last four years
• 2024 B1G Tournament Champions
• 2022 B1G Champions
• 2021 B1G Tournament Champions
• Led B1G in wins in 2021
• 2021 NCAA Tournament No. 1 seed (fourth in school history)

Is there any fanbase that wouldn't be ecstatic if their new coach accomplished all those recent Underwood "ceilings"? This chatter that pops up after every loss reminds me Indiana fans and their the delusions of grandeur.
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Again, I'm not advocating for Underwood to go anywhere. I believe I've made that point clear multiple times and have documented the only situation where I will really sour on him. I just don't feel like he's in a position to really dictate to Whitman on anything related to his compensation or to be able to go against any recommendations for staff changes given what has happened this season (and really a lot of what happened in 2021 through 2023 as well). If he jumps because of those items, then that happens and I wish him well.

All I am saying is that if Underwood goes to someplace like Texas, I am much more confident in the state of the program to obtain another good coach than when Weber was fired and Groce was hired. I don't want that to happen, but if it does I am much more confident than I was a decade ago.
 
#513      
Illini IndyCar Fan
OrangeBlue98 said:
Again, I'm not advocating for Underwood to go anywhere. I believe I've made that point clear multiple times and have documented the only situation where I will really sour on him. I just don't feel like he's in a position to really dictate to Whitman on anything related to his compensation or to be able to go against any recommendations for staff changes given what has happened this season (and really a lot of what happened in 2021 through 2023 as well). If he jumps because of those items, then that happens and I wish him well.

All I am saying is that if Underwood goes to someplace like Texas, I am much more confident in the state of the program to obtain another good coach than when Weber was fired and Groce was hired. I don't want that to happen, but if it does I am much more confident than I was a decade ago.
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(sorry, don't know how to quote two different posts from different pages):
"For me, the only thing that would really sour me on Underwood is if Whitman tells Underwood "You have to fire Hamer and bring a more qualified tactical assistant in" and Underwood tells him something like "I'm the coach, and I'll determine who is on my staff." I sincerely hope Underwood realizes he needs a staff upgrade (replacements for Jones and Hamer specifically) and we don't even come close to this situation. But given how Underwood seems set in his vision (i.e. stubborn), I don't know if that will happen."

I understand the points you've made, but it seems we're overly focused on hypothetical situations and letting that influence our feelings about Brad after every Illini loss. While I agree Hamer should be replaced after this season, let's allow the process to unfold. We can rightfully get upset and dog Brad if Hamer's still here next year. Brad has a track record of making necessary changes and when there's an opening he also hires strong assistant coaches.
 
#514      
the juiceman cometh
madillini4 said:
Our NIL would have us in a much better spot than when we hired Groce. Not saying I’m in favor of moving on from Underwood, but this day and age, we are a very attractive spot.
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Sure but even if you're an attractive spot and get exactly who you want it doesn't always work out. Shaka Smart was at the top of everyone's wish list at one point, including ours, and Texas got him. It wasn't a disaster by any means, but his record hasn't been anywhere near Brad's since he made that move, either at Texas or Marquette. Everyone hires coaches they think will help them win, and most of them fail.
 
#516      
DeeIL89
Illini IndyCar Fan said:
(sorry, don't know how to quote two different posts from different pages):
"For me, the only thing that would really sour me on Underwood is if Whitman tells Underwood "You have to fire Hamer and bring a more qualified tactical assistant in" and Underwood tells him something like "I'm the coach, and I'll determine who is on my staff." I sincerely hope Underwood realizes he needs a staff upgrade (replacements for Jones and Hamer specifically) and we don't even come close to this situation. But given how Underwood seems set in his vision (i.e. stubborn), I don't know if that will happen."

I understand the points you've made, but it seems we're overly focused on hypothetical situations and letting that influence our feelings about Brad after every Illini loss. While I agree Hamer should be replaced after this season, let's allow the process to unfold. We can rightfully get upset and dog Brad if Hamer's still here next year. Brad has a track record of making necessary changes and when there's an opening he also hires strong assistant coaches.
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If Brad is willing to over recruit his own players like he has been then he needs to take that same approach with his coaching staff. Hamer has failed in his position and it's even worst this season than last. I would like to think that Brad knows there is better defensive assistant coaches out there that are interested in coming here so we can only hope. Hamer is simply not ready to be in this coaching spot that he was given.
 
#517      
WyattEarp
Illini IndyCar Fan said:
I'm still waiting for a Texas insider or wherever else "his agent is talking to" to hint that Brad Underwood is actually on their list before I put a lot into that ungracious narrative. Even the KSU chatter from the EMAW crew during their search didn't really align with the insights being posted here.
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Fair point, I suppose.

We do know his agent is an aggressive maniac. (Apparently he’s real good at what he does too…and you don’t do that without being in the know.) It’s highly plausible/likely that he is at least listening to what they have to say. I would guess that most of these guys are constantly shopping around in a such a boom or bust, what-have-ya-done-for-me-lately?…type of enterprise.

I stand by what I said. It remains a looming question…
 
#518      
OrangeBlue98
DirtyBurgIllini said:
doesn't sound like he wants to leave NU, just trying to gather up resources and get their admissions to relax
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I just don't understand that line of thinking if that's true. I cannot think of a single reason why Northwestern would be more attractive than Villanova except for maybe the TV money. I get he's a Chicago guy (which maybe is the overriding reason), but i just don't see it. Villanova to me is clearly a more attractive job.
 
#521      
jamarvelous31
Indy Illini Fan said:
I've heard don't rule out UCLA making a move ... They seem to think they can land a big fish ...
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happy illinois basketball GIF by Fighting Illini Athletics
 
#524      
hooraybeer
would think that pat kelsey could continue upward trajectory if desired
 
#525      
DirtyBurgIllini
OrangeBlue98 said:
I just don't understand that line of thinking if that's true. I cannot think of a single reason why Northwestern would be more attractive than Villanova except for maybe the TV money. I get he's a Chicago guy (which maybe is the overriding reason), but i just don't see it. Villanova to me is clearly a more attractive job.
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Is Villanova that much better? It’s not Jay Wright’s Villanova. They’re not swimming in resources. Chris has made a ton of money, his family is around the area & in the state. If he’s going to leave, he’ll want somewhere where it’s a legit chance to win a championship
 
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