Illinois 86, Xavier 73 Postgame

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#326      
Big Jack
sacraig said:
Disagree. None of them are consistent contributors, but BH had enough of a sample size this year to know he was not ready for this level. DGL was inconsistent but has a much higher ceiling than BH. JD... who knows? Small sample size.

They also aren't also playing the same position/roles.
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DGL I will agree is not the same positional player as Ben but his 3 pt shooting is horrible for the most part. Sorry, I Iike Jake too but his role is a spot relief pitcher for Ben's position and has 0 defensive ability period. I will say he is probably a better 3 pt shooter. But if I am a smart coach and I have 1 scholarship it would go to Ben. All around he is a better value to this team.
 
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#327      
Big Jack
#328      
Battle89
ejam21 said:
Kinda disagree

-difference between 2nd and 7th was 2 games this difference will always be close, every game matters

-we had like 6 weeks of being not whole spanning like 10 games? KJ missed games, tomi missed a bunch of games and still isnt 100%, Morez broken wrist, riley/tre/jake davis/DGL all missed time or have been questionable. I think ben and KB are the only ones who had zero issues and because of this, we did by definition not succeed, at least by pre-season expectations

-18 teams with unbalanced schedules: our conf SOS was 6, the teams in front of us: 12, 15, 8,17,14, 18 play the hand you're dealt, some years this will favor us
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All fair points, but you are giving reasons why we did not succeed. I agree and would not define the season as '100% successful'. Now if the goalposts are being moved to say we were as good as we could have been considering the circumstances, then I think we are much closer.

This season will be remembered for its deep troughs and for its towering highs. Beat UK and we are unquestionably in the latter category. Lose and I'm still somewhat happy, especially at the don't-quit attitude displayed. Lots of heart in this group, and that is to be admired.
 
#329      
Big Jack
sacraig said:
Now show me percentages. Ben has hit a lot of threes but it's been a low efficiency. If he can start shooting them at 41% like he did at Evansville, then great. But he shot 34% this season, so those 62 threes were on 181 attempts.

If he had other aspects to his game, then great. But, at least at this level, he really doesn't, and we need a three point specialist to hit threes at a higher clip than that.

Who knows, maybe he will figure it out if he stays and shoot closer to his earlier form or learn how to add legit booty ball to his game or something. But I am just not optimistic.
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Looks like the volume aligns with the percentages and makes. Ben's efficiency is as good as anyone on the team besides Tomi. 3 Pt Stats
13Ivisic, Tomislav313082926.7150302.49750142.352
15Davis, Jake3112999.63585.4122264.344
22White, Tre313071723.1110216.5092367.343
03Humrichous, Ben342688826.190240.37562181.343
07Riley, Will34887425.7154352.43847141.333
32Jakucionis, Kasparas3232100831.5144326.44252161.323
 
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#330      
illini55
Captain 14 said:
After Tomi's 4th three pointer a graphic on screen said most 3s by a 7 footer in NCAA Tournament history. Which was followed by the announcer pointing out it was the 4th most ever in the tournament. Oh well long day for announcers too.
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I could be wrong, but I think one stat was about 7 footers, the other about centers. I don’t think this distinction was well explained.
 
#331      
Illini 993
One thing to keep in mind about Swain is that that was his best game in 2 seasons at X. Also, is anyone else surprised that Tomi was only credited with 1 assist for the game?
 
#332      
ejam21
sacraig said:
Now show me percentages. Ben has hit a lot of threes but it's been a low efficiency. If he can start shooting them at 41% like he did at Evansville, then great. But he shot 34% this season, so those 62 threes were on 181 attempts.

If he had other aspects to his game, then great. But, at least at this level, he really doesn't, and we need a three point specialist to hit threes at a higher clip than that.

Who knows, maybe he will figure it out if he stays and shoot closer to his earlier form or learn how to add legit booty ball to his game or something. But I am just not optimistic.
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Well first the point im railing against are the ppl acting like he never hits 3s....its simply wrong

Percentages added

Plummer 2022: 98 41%
Frazier 2019: 80 41%
Shannon 2024: 77 36%
Mayer 2023: 67 33%
Frazier 2022: 63 33%
Ben H 2025: 62 and counting 34%
Goode 2024: 61 39%
Frazier 2018: 61 35%
Hawkins 2024: 59 36%
Jordan 2019: 59 41%
Frazier 2021: 55 36%
KJ 2025: 52 and counting 32%
miller 2021: 52 34%
Frazier 2020: 51 31%
Ayo 2019: 50 35%
Shannon 2023: 50 32%
Tomi: 50 and counting 35%
 
#333      
sacraig
Big Jack said:
Looks like the volume aligns with the percentages and makes. Ben's efficiency is as good as anyone on the team besides Tomi. 3 Pt Stats
13Ivisic, Tomislav313082926.7150302.49750142.352
15Davis, Jake3112999.63585.4122264.344
22White, Tre313071723.1110216.5092367.343
03Humrichous, Ben342688826.190240.37562181.343
07Riley, Will34887425.7154352.43847141.333
32Jakucionis, Kasparas3232100831.5144326.44252161.323
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I don't think comparing him favorably to the rest of the team that collectively shoots among the worst from behind the arc in D1 is a good argument. They all need to be better if they are going to be three point specialists. The difference between most of those guys and BH is that they have other dimensions to their offense. So far, BH does not.
 
#334      
sacraig
ejam21 said:
Well first the point im railing against are the ppl acting like he never hits 3s....its simply wrong

Percentages added

Plummer 2022: 98 41%
Frazier 2019: 80 41%
Shannon 2024: 77 36%
Mayer 2023: 67 33%
Frazier 2022: 63 33%
Ben H 2025: 62 and counting 34%
Goode 2024: 61 39%
Frazier 2018: 61 35%
Hawkins 2024: 59 36%
Jordan 2019: 59 41%
Frazier 2021: 55 36%
KJ 2025: 52 and counting 32%
miller 2021: 52 34%
Frazier 2020: 51 31%
Ayo 2019: 50 35%
Shannon 2023: 50 32%
Tomi: 50 and counting 35%
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That's fair. I just don't think that hitting threes at the rate he does is acceptable for someone whose only offensive tools at this level (that he has shown so far, anyway) is the three ball. if he is going to be a sniper, he needs to be better at sniping.
 
#336      
ejam21
sacraig said:
That's fair. I just don't think that hitting threes at the rate he does is acceptable for someone whose only offensive tools at this level (that he has shown so far, anyway) is the three ball. if he is going to be a sniper, he needs to be better at sniping.
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i dont really disagree, but the amount of griping he gets is completely outsized IMHO and turns irrational. you'd think he hit 3 threes all year from some of the comments. That's what im arguing against, not saying that he's been everything he's been billed to be.Though i never expect 40% from anyone, i probably wouldve been happy if he hovered around 36 or better.

And like another poster pointed out..he was just under 50% the last 5 games before this one....and he was still gettin slammed in game threads and in this one as if the 0/4 was what he was doing all march
 
#337      
csd
Battle89 said:
I'm somewhere between the two of you. Portions of this season have been a disaster, but certainly not all. Can't ignore the worst loss in program history as a data point. A lot of bad luck too with injuries and disease.

By the same token, it's difficult for me to portray a 7th place finish in conference as "100% successful". But point taken on the complete roster rebuild, and a sweet sixteen would cure a lot of those ills (pun intended) and I think, on balance, would make most of us feel this was a great season.
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Bumpy road this year for sure but I have watched every game (doesn't always happen) and received as much or more enjoyment than last year. Watching this team develop and gel with all this talent has kept me engaged all season. Nil & the portal has changed everything. I hated it at first, but BU adapted fast (still learning I suspect) and has put together some great teams with incredible talent. I thought losing the continuity of rosters year to year would ruin it for me but surprisingly enough it has not. Losing to Kentucky will not define this season for me, I will remember watching some of the best college basketball players in the country grow and develop. But damn, I would love to have another crack at Duke.
 
#339      
NarrowJ
ejam21 said:
i dont really disagree, but the amount of griping he gets is completely outsized IMHO and turns irrational. you'd think he hit 3 threes all year from some of the comments. That's what im arguing against, not saying that he's been everything he's been billed to be.Though i never expect 40% from anyone, i probably wouldve been happy if he hovered around 36 or better.

And like another poster pointed out..he was just under 50% the last 5 games before this one....and he was still gettin slammed in game threads and in this one as if the 0/4 was what he was doing all march
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Yes, this is where I am at too.

We just won an NCAA tourney game by 13 and we have to post "Humbrickhouse" and other derogatory/mocking stuff and act like he shouldn't even see the floor.

Do I think Ben is one of our better players? No.

Do I think he is important for us overall, or especially now in this tournament? Yes.

For all of the talk about Xaviers lack of depth, I think they nearly doubled us last night in bench minutes. Although, I think much of that had to do with Xavier being longer and more physical on the wing where Jake & DGL just don't match up well. I think Ben is an important 12-18 minute guy for us if we want to be able to spell guys adequately.
 
#340      
jacekpardol
sacraig said:
Now show me percentages. Ben has hit a lot of threes but it's been a low efficiency. If he can start shooting them at 41% like he did at Evansville, then great. But he shot 34% this season, so those 62 threes were on 181 attempts.

If he had other aspects to his game, then great. But, at least at this level, he really doesn't, and we need a three point specialist to hit threes at a higher clip than that.

Who knows, maybe he will figure it out if he stays and shoot closer to his earlier form or learn how to add legit booty ball to his game or something. But I am just not optimistic.

34.3% on threes translates to 1.029 points per possession when BH shoots like this year.
41.4% on threes translates to 1.242 points per possession when BH shoots like last year.

1.029 PPP for an offense is usually near the bottom of the B1G. 1.242 PPP is generally near the top.
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That’s exactly it. He’s doesn’t bring much else beside his shooting. He's either catching and shooting or passing it to guard on the perimeter. Also his best games were in games where we were dominating the opposition. He seems to shoot much better when there is less on the line.

For a 6’9” dude to be avg less than 4 rebounds, less than 1 anssist and shooting 37% from 2, less than 70% from ft on over 25 mpg is a liability - not an asset.
 
#341      
sacraig
ejam21 said:
i dont really disagree, but the amount of griping he gets is completely outsized IMHO and turns irrational. you'd think he hit 3 threes all year from some of the comments. That's what im arguing against, not saying that he's been everything he's been billed to be.Though i never expect 40% from anyone, i probably wouldve been happy if he hovered around 36 or better.

And like another poster pointed out..he was just under 50% the last 5 games before this one....and he was still gettin slammed in game threads and in this one as if the 0/4 was what he was doing all march
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I think he has certainly dug himself a hole in terms of fan support that will take more than a couple games to climb out. The disappointing three shooting is part of it, but defense is another. I understand he does a fair number of the little things right, but it's frustrating for fans to watch him get absolutely torched repeatedly by players who are simply better and more athletic than him. Maybe his collection of little things outweigh the highly-visible torchings, but as a fan, that's had to see and I am sure it is a heavy contributor to fan sentiment.
 
#343      
Big Jack
sacraig said:
I don't think comparing him favorably to the rest of the team that collectively shoots among the worst from behind the arc in D1 is a good argument. They all need to be better if they are going to be three point specialists. The difference between most of those guys and BH is that they have other dimensions to their offense. So far, BH does not.
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I am not saving give a starting role. I was as down as anyone about his play, but if he costs as little as our other bench players I am going to take him based on stats and his size. 8-910th guy will accept that.
 
#344      
LoveIlliniHoops
As far as the Ben minutes conversation, MJ is still able to ease into playing condition and heal and TW wasn’t as effective as Ben was. We weren’t in a position of needing more, and his defense kept him on the court. His +\- speaks volumes for why he’s on the court. Obviously, his shooting is off, and I believe BU is trying to get him out of his funk by shooting out of it. It just isn’t happening.

Relax and enjoy the win. We played a well coached game and won.
 
#345      
sacraig
NarrowJ said:
How about this? If you're advocate of Ben playing zero minutes, what do you recommend for minute distribution? You really have Jake, DGL out there guarding the bigger, physical players that Ben can?
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DGL has a comparable overall rating to BH on Torvik, so you might argue they should get similar minutes. Of course, they play different positions so that is an imperfect argument.
 
#346      
NarrowJ
sacraig said:
DGL has a comparable overall rating to BH on Torvik, so you might argue they should get similar minutes. Of course, they play different positions so that is an imperfect argument.
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I completely agree with this, but by similar minutes surely we don't mean they both get zero (and that isn't meant to be snarky, I think it's important to point out both guys should be able to contribute something, I was originally aiming at folks advocating Ben not playing at all)
 
#347      
Roundball Sage
In too many Tournament games over the past 20 years the Illini played tentative. And at times, rattled and off-game. This was NOT the case on a beautiful March Friday night prime time treat. Impressive Big-Tourney win by Our Beloved. Exerted their will against the opponent and did not let them back into the game.

Several good Illini player performances. But once again, Riley proved to be the heart and soul of the team. His skills, flair, and floor confidence are on a special level. And his teammates feed off that.

Yes, another big name legacy opponent comes next. Another Make-a-Statement game for the Illini on the National stage. Let’s have more of the same from Friday... Please.

And if The Beloved can bring in talent every year like they did coming into this season... the Illini will have fully planted their Blue Blood Flag on the high mountain of College ball in the 21st Century.

As is only right and proper..
 
#349      
phats22
LoveIlliniHoops said:
As far as the Ben minutes conversation, MJ is still able to ease into playing condition and heal and TW wasn’t as effective as Ben was. We weren’t in a position of needing more, and his defense kept him on the court.
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you lost me there
 
#350      
phats22
ejam21 said:
i dont really disagree, but the amount of griping he gets is completely outsized IMHO and turns irrational. you'd think he hit 3 threes all year from some of the comments. That's what im arguing against, not saying that he's been everything he's been billed to be.Though i never expect 40% from anyone, i probably wouldve been happy if he hovered around 36 or better.

And like another poster pointed out..he was just under 50% the last 5 games before this one....and he was still gettin slammed in game threads and in this one as if the 0/4 was what he was doing all march
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someone yesterday made an excellent (props to whoever you are, I'm too lazy to look it up right now). much (most?) of the angst directed towards Ben was in the context of his playing significantly more minutes than Will for most of the season.
obviously, that situation sorted itself out over time but was a point of confusion and frustration early. as that post noted, that's not on Ben, that's on coaching
 
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